Defend Greece Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 !@#$ pat kirwin bet he didnt watch any bills games that dumb ass Heart alone freddie is number 1 in my book !@#$ kirwins dumb ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 !@#$ pat kirwin bet he didnt watch any bills games that dumb ass Heart alone freddie is number 1 in my book !@#$ kirwins dumb ass You really are special aren't you? Freddie is mediocre and approaching 30 which is when NFL backs typically break down. You probably think Fitz is a Top 10 QB, and Stevie is Jerry Rice part 2. You need to be realistic about this team, the reality is the Bills are not very good and thus their players are not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 You really are special aren't you? Freddie is mediocre and approaching 30 which is when NFL backs typically break down. You probably think Fitz is a Top 10 QB, and Stevie is Jerry Rice part 2. You need to be realistic about this team, the reality is the Bills are not very good and thus their players are not very good. You're using a baby/bathwater argument. By your reasoning, no one on the team is a good football player? There's no one on the roster worth building a good team with? That tells me all I need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 You're using a baby/bathwater argument. By your reasoning, no one on the team is a good football player? There's no one on the roster worth building a good team with? That tells me all I need to know. There are some good players on the Bills but the majority of them are not good, that was the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) You're using a baby/bathwater argument. By your reasoning, no one on the team is a good football player? There's no one on the roster worth building a good team with? That tells me all I need to know. Though we may have good role players, I think we would be hardpressed to find many cornerstone players. Outside of rookies/unknowns and KW how many of our players would start on a dominant team, yet alone be a real leader/core player? Who is our top 100 guy? As far as RB skill sets I think P Thomas is the closest comparable - good at all, great at none. Very few guys above Freddy that I would turn down the straight up trade for. Edited June 2, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 You guys should watch freddie. Watch him block, watch him fall forward, watch him catch, watch him throw the slant to lee. Listen to him talk after being replaced by lynch for no reason, listen to him take the blame when things go wrong The guys the nfl record holder for total yards in a season for goodness sake He is also the nfl leader in humility and heart And no saint "who is our top 100 guy" Are you serious? Stop eatching nfl network and go get some tickets to a bills game or the sunday ticket and stop letting rich eisen run your life GO FREDDIE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 You guys should watch freddie. Watch him block, watch him fall forward, watch him catch, watch him throw the slant to lee. Listen to him talk after being replaced by lynch for no reason, listen to him take the blame when things go wrong The guys the nfl record holder for total yards in a season for goodness sake He is also the nfl leader in humility and heart And no saint "who is our top 100 guy" Are you serious? Stop eatching nfl network and go get some tickets to a bills game or the sunday ticket and stop letting rich eisen run your life GO FREDDIE!!!! Say what now? When has he done any of these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 You guys should watch freddie. Watch him block, watch him fall forward, watch him catch, watch him throw the slant to lee. Listen to him talk after being replaced by lynch for no reason, listen to him take the blame when things go wrong The guys the nfl record holder for total yards in a season for goodness sake He is also the nfl leader in humility and heart And no saint "who is our top 100 guy" Are you serious? Stop eatching nfl network and go get some tickets to a bills game or the sunday ticket and stop letting rich eisen run your life GO FREDDIE!!!! I want to live in the world you do, where FJax is Barry Sanders, and the Bills are good. He is not the NFL record holder for total yards, he was the first to have 1000 rushing/1000 return yards in the same season but hey why let facts get in the way of your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Say what now? When has he done any of these things? Well he was a little off... Jackson's 2,516 all-purpose yards were the most by any NFL player in 2009, and the most in the league since 2002...He's #4 all time for all-purpose yards from scrimmage in a single season... I'll just throw my 2 cents in here...Fred Jackson is among the Top 10 most underrated Players in the NFL...He's my favorite Buffalo Bills Player currently and if we had a Team full of Players with Freddie Jackson's attitude we would be unstoppable...He's WAY better than many give him credit for...And we're awfully lucky to have him...If he was in NE he would be a Household Name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Dear Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I completely agree Well he was a little off... Jackson's 2,516 all-purpose yards were the most by any NFL player in 2009, and the most in the league since 2002...He's #4 all time for all-purpose yards from scrimmage in a single season... I'll just throw my 2 cents in here...Fred Jackson is among the Top 10 most underrated Players in the NFL...He's my favorite Buffalo Bills Player currently and if we had a Team full of Players with Freddie Jackson's attitude we would be unstoppable...He's WAY better than many give him credit for...And we're awfully lucky to have him...If he was in NE he would be a Household Name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I agree with Hondo. The Bills' lines have hurt their rushing performances - for both Lynch & Freddy. The problem with Lynch is he only takes football seriously on the field - he doesn't feel the need to act a certain way (maturity) off of it. Freddy has proven more effective, both running/receiving. As the Bills' line improves - I DO expect them to be quite a bit better this year (health permitting) - watch Freddy & Spiller have minor & major breakout years, respectively. Everyone will wonder where that's been (it's been hidden behind poor lines). Looking at the list - I would have put Freddy in group C - I would take him over any one of those other guys. The only demerit on him is his age, but lite treadwear somewhat counter-balances that. Spiller barely played and didn't play all that well when he did. I wouldn't have ranked him, I'd have given him an incomplete. I AM really looking forward to see if he can breakout this year. As Marv always used to say, therookies to watch are last year's rookies. (Troupe on Def too!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Kirwan said "4. Marshawn Lynch, Seahawks (>): Just look at the epic run he had in the playoffs last year and ask yourself how many players could duplicate that effort" Yeah, it's funny...Because that epic run, as great as it was, was pretty much the ONLY production he had all season...Putting him ahead of a guy like Jackson (who was ahead of Lynch on the Bills roster), is a little ridiculous. Jackson does everything well (nothing great), he can catch, he can run, has speed, and power. He can even block and play special teams.... Lynch? He runs strong....thats it. He isn't fast, he isn't agile, he isn't smart, he doesn't hit holes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Perhaps, but not as good as Lynch? Anyone paying attention in Buffalo clearly saw Jackson repeatedly outperform Lynch, who does have occasional flashes, but is generally mediocre. He made one good run for Seattle all year, but it happened to be on the national stage. He will be back to his 3.2 yds per carry ususal self again this year. Ah the haters never tire do they? How many rushing TDs did Jackson score in 2009 when he was given the starting job over Lynch? That's right...a whopping TWO!!! 237 freakin' carries and a grand total of TWO rushing tds. Jackson is a great feel good story but the people that feel he is elite or better than Lynch need to get off the crack. People hated on Lynch for his issues OFF the field and let that cloud their vision of his performance ON the field. I think Jackson is a great #2 but as a #1 he leaves something to be desired particularly rushing TDs. Before last year (when Lynch was traded) Jackson and Lynch spent 3 seasons with the Bills… they were rookies the same year. Jackson had a better yards per carry in all 3 of those years. Jackson had a better yards per reception in 2 of those 3 years. Jackson has always performed better than Lynch, behind the same offensive line and in the same offense. IMO, it's pretty obvious that Lynch has zero vision and instincts whereas Jackson always seems to know how to maximize what the blocking scheme gives him. For the stat lovers you make a convincing argument but you left out the most important stat of all, TDs. Remember? The things that put points on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimace Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Ah the haters never tire do they? How many rushing TDs did Jackson score in 2009 when he was given the starting job over Lynch? That's right...a whopping TWO!!! 237 freakin' carries and a grand total of TWO rushing tds. Jackson is a great feel good story but the people that feel he is elite or better than Lynch need to get off the crack. People hated on Lynch for his issues OFF the field and let that cloud their vision of his performance ON the field. I think Jackson is a great #2 but as a #1 he leaves something to be desired particularly rushing TDs. ... For the stat lovers you make a convincing argument but you left out the most important stat of all, TDs. Remember? The things that put points on the board. Wasn't Lynch the short yardage back that got all the goal line carries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Ah the haters never tire do they? How many rushing TDs did Jackson score in 2009 when he was given the starting job over Lynch? That's right...a whopping TWO!!! 237 freakin' carries and a grand total of TWO rushing tds. Jackson is a great feel good story but the people that feel he is elite or better than Lynch need to get off the crack. People hated on Lynch for his issues OFF the field and let that cloud their vision of his performance ON the field. I think Jackson is a great #2 but as a #1 he leaves something to be desired particularly rushing TDs. For the stat lovers you make a convincing argument but you left out the most important stat of all, TDs. Remember? The things that put points on the board. First PDaDdy… isn't it a bit shallow calling the people that disagree with you "haters?" Why are we the haters and not you? Couldn't you just as easily be accused of "hating" Fred Jackson? Please stop with the name calling. A person who disagrees with you isn't automatically a hater. Try to hold yourself to a higher standard of discussion. The world is more complex than haters and Kool Aid drinkers. Believe me. Speaking of name calling, I'm not a "stat lover." I judge Jackson better than Lynch based on my own two eyes. Some of the stats happen to back it but I don't base my opinion on stats. To me it's OBVIOUS who the more instinctive and productive player is. Just open your eyes and look. Honestly, your opinion that Lynch is the better runner makes me think much less of your opinions. I'm sure the opposite is true so I won't apologize for that. I remember waxing poetic last year about Jackson's ability to take a deep handoff and arc his cutbacks beautifully and his deceptive speed in the secondary. I pointed out his propensity for always falling forwards and I likened Jackson's running style to that of Marcus Allen… a smooth, taller, long-strider with good vision and instincts. A guy who catches the ball well and knows his assignments. I was very gratified to see a prominent writer make the same comparison some months later. Your obsession with how many TDs Jackson scored indicates that you're the one hung up on stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) First PDaDdy… isn't it a bit shallow calling the people that disagree with you "haters?" Why are we the haters and not you? Couldn't you just as easily be accused of "hating" Fred Jackson? Please stop with the name calling. A person who disagrees with you isn't automatically a hater. Try to hold yourself to a higher standard of discussion. The world is more complex than haters and Kool Aid drinkers. Believe me. Speaking of name calling, I'm not a "stat lover." I judge Jackson better than Lynch based on my own two eyes. Some of the stats happen to back it but I don't base my opinion on stats. To me it's OBVIOUS who the more instinctive and productive player is. Just open your eyes and look. Honestly, your opinion that Lynch is the better runner makes me think much less of your opinions. I'm sure the opposite is true so I won't apologize for that. I remember waxing poetic last year about Jackson's ability to take a deep handoff and arc his cutbacks beautifully and his deceptive speed in the secondary. I pointed out his propensity for always falling forwards and I likened Jackson's running style to that of Marcus Allen… a smooth, taller, long-strider with good vision and instincts. A guy who catches the ball well and knows his assignments. I was very gratified to see a prominent writer make the same comparison some months later. Your obsession with how many TDs Jackson scored indicates that you're the one hung up on stats. For someone to be a "hater" don't they have to hate? I think Jackson is a great #2 RB, a great person and a great feel good story. The fact that I think he lacks something as a number #1 is an objective opinion (oh the irony) and does not a "hater" make. I only responded to stats with stats. Your stats. What some stats people like yourself do is misuse them to back up a point and ignore other important stats. Things like comparing starter stats to starter stats for Lynch and Jackson. When you do so things start to look a lot more level. Well, except for Lynch's higher TD production. If Jackson had so much better vision than Lynch, as you say, how come he couldn't "see" his way into the end zone more than TWO times as a starter in 2009 and an awesome FIVE in 2010. I love you holier than thou "just look with your eyes" guys as if your "vision" is objective and true and anyone who disagrees with you is blind/wrong and stat's be damned! Great for a laugh. Thanks for starting off my weekend right! PS. I couldn't care about your opinion of me. I'm not a child looking for acceptance or approval. Just callin' em like I see em like everyone else here. Edited June 4, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 For someone to be a "hater" don't they have to hate? I think Jackson is a great #2 RB, a great person and a great feel good story. The fact that I think he lacks something as a number #1 is an objective opinion (oh the irony) and does not a "hater" make. I only responded to stats with stats. Your stats. What some stats people like yourself do is misuse them to back up a point and ignore other important stats. Things like comparing starter stats to starter stats for Lynch and Jackson. When you do so things start to look a lot more level. Well, except for Lynch's higher TD production. If Jackson had so much better vision than Lynch, as you say, how come he couldn't "see" his way into the end zone more than TWO times as a starter in 2009 and an awesome FIVE in 2010. I love you holier than thou "just look with your eyes" guys as if your "vision" is objective and true and anyone who disagrees with you is blind/wrong and stat's be damned! Great for a laugh. Thanks for starting off my weekend right! PS. I could give a flying you know what about your opinion of me. For me to care I would have to value your opinion. And as I already stated, I don't value yours. Anyone who could watch both players and come to the conclusion that you have isn't seeing things clearly… IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 And as I already stated, I don't value yours. Anyone who could watch both players and come to the conclusion that you have isn't seeing things clearly… IMO. Like I said " I love you holier than thou "just look with your eyes" guys as if your "vision" is objective and true and anyone who disagrees with you is blind/wrong and stat's be damned! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Like I said " I love you holier than thou "just look with your eyes" guys as if your "vision" is objective and true and anyone who disagrees with you is blind/wrong and stat's be damned! " PDaDdy, Sorry to be a jerk. Quitting cigarettes is a B word. Look. We disagree. I really am incredulous that people can see the same thing that I see over the course of 4 years and come up with a totally different impression. I really believe that it's very obvious that Jackson is a better runner and I've always felt that way. But it's only my opinion. I guess we just disagree. Again… sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 PDaDdy, Sorry to be a jerk. Quitting cigarettes is a B word. Look. We disagree. I really am incredulous that people can see the same thing that I see over the course of 4 years and come up with a totally different impression. I really believe that it's very obvious that Jackson is a better runner and I've always felt that way. But it's only my opinion. I guess we just disagree. Again… sorry. Eh, no worries. We're cool. I do see the good in both guys. All the stats from both guys helped the team. We just place different importance on various things. I think that they had complementary skills in a way. I always hoped for a great offensive line which I thought Lynch was more effective behind as the starter. When he got a hole and hit it he was like a thing unleashed. He is was also younger by a number of years. Truly Lynch could have learned a lot from Jackson though on and off the field. In a way I think Lynch's running style rubbed off on Jackson trying for that extra yard. Jackson seemed to gain some tenacity as he has played for Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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