Would no NFL salary cap relegate all the small market teams to the bas

[Scrappy]

If the Jerry Jones' of the world have their way, there will not be a salary cap & they can acquire all the best players. Would a situation like MLB baseball turn the Bills & all the small market teams into basement dwellers every season ?

 

I also think that this would eventually devalue the Bills & force Ralph to sell during the amazing upside he has now. Knowing that you can't afford to pay to compete basically means that there is no more free lunches. The Bills will actually have to charge higher prices / rename the stadium in an attempt to collect more / stay competitive. I can see how this would make Ralph concede that he is out of his league, don't you think??

[2003Contenders]

The Bills did OK from 1988-1993, the years immediately BEFORE the salary cap.

[Gordio]

If the Jerry Jones' of the world have their way, there will not be a salary cap & they can acquire all the best players. Would a situation like MLB baseball turn the Bills & all the small market teams into basement dwellers every season ?

 

I also think that this would eventually devalue the Bills & force Ralph to sell during the amazing upside he has now. Knowing that you can't afford to pay to compete basically means that there is no more free lunches. The Bills will actually have to charge higher prices / rename the stadium in an attempt to collect more / stay competitive. I can see how this would make Ralph concede that he is out of his league, don't you think??

 

 

Football is a little different from baseball. You really can not compare the 2. First, the NFL shares TV revenues so the Bills get a check for around $120 million a year right out of the gate. Compare that to baseball where the Yankees I believe get $100 million per year on their TV contract & a team like the Pirates may get 2-3 million per year from the TV contract. Big difference.

 

2nd, NFL players careers are short anyways. You draft a player, I believe in an uncapped year you could keep them for 6 years, chances are when they do hit unrestricted free agency their best years are behind them. Baseball, players are usually hitting their prime when they come into their second contract(27/28/29 years old) Draft well & a small market team like the bills could still compete. In fact I would argue some of the small market teams would favor not having a salary cap since there would be no floor required for their spending limits.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Gordio

[Erik]

If the Jerry Jones' of the world have their way, there will not be a salary cap & they can acquire all the best players. Would a situation like MLB baseball turn the Bills & all the small market teams into basement dwellers every season ?

 

I also think that this would eventually devalue the Bills & force Ralph to sell during the amazing upside he has now. Knowing that you can't afford to pay to compete basically means that there is no more free lunches. The Bills will actually have to charge higher prices / rename the stadium in an attempt to collect more / stay competitive. I can see how this would make Ralph concede that he is out of his league, don't you think??

 

NFLPA wants a cap and I'm sure a good number of the owners support it as well...the Jones' of the world will never get the support to get rid of it.

[Mr. WEO]

If the Jerry Jones' of the world have their way, there will not be a salary cap & they can acquire all the best players. Would a situation like MLB baseball turn the Bills & all the small market teams into basement dwellers every season ?

 

I also think that this would eventually devalue the Bills & force Ralph to sell during the amazing upside he has now. Knowing that you can't afford to pay to compete basically means that there is no more free lunches. The Bills will actually have to charge higher prices / rename the stadium in an attempt to collect more / stay competitive. I can see how this would make Ralph concede that he is out of his league, don't you think??

No, no and....no.

[Scrappy]

Talking about any business events from the late 80's is way out of whack. First off, $50 Million in guarantees for one player was not a reality back then neither was $145 M in per team television revenues. The numbers are much greater as well as the rewards, with stadium revenues becoming a much smaller part of the picture as time goes on.

 

The Cowboys charge the most for everything already, including stadium rights, so they'll likely be out in front if there is no cap. It can really skew the league & eliminate parity, which is what makes the NFL so great.

[Doc]

You need a 2/3 majority to pass anything in the NFL. The cap won't be going away since 21 other owners need to side with Jerry and want to get rid of it, and that won't happen.

[Saint Doug]

The Bills did OK from 1988-1993, the years immediately BEFORE the salary cap.

 

You statement, while completely wrong, is very interesting and important for this thread. 1993 is when free agency as we know it started and ever since this time the Bills have stunk, basically meaning that the Bills have not been able to compete in the modern-era of FA. So, basically take away the cap, the Bills would be even worse. Then again, the Skins don't have a salary cap imposed on them and they still suck.

[Hplarrm]

It really all depends upon the owner. If your owner is a business man, the NFL without a salary cap becomes a very difficult business to operate. The costs will escalate beyond your control and the owner would need to escalate his payments or face the wrath of customers with tangible proof he does not care enough about winning to pay for it.

 

On the other hand, if your owner is a sportsman as Pegula seems to be at least verbally, he is committed to spending amounts not justified for a businessman but doable if you have it for a sportsman.

 

Of course you only win if you are good smart sportsmen like the Rooneys in Pittsburgh and it does not matter how much money you have if you are an idiot like Dan Snyder with the Deadskins.

 

Yes, the era of the businessman like a Ralph is over. However, the era of the bad sportsman like Golisano or the potentially good sportsman like Pegula has begun.

 

The good news for football fans in this small market is that there actually even in our economically troubled town there is plenty of money that likely would want a team here like a Golisano, Pegula, and potentially Jeremy Jacobs.

 

Further, the game plan for the NFL appears to be to serve the true market which is the TV networks and the search for the many eyeballs in Mexico City, Europe. Toronto. and Asia. With the true customers and source of cash in mind, the fact the Bills have historic ties to old NFL and AFL is worth far more to the NFL than selling a few more tickets in some other town.

 

I doubt the Bills move (amd only to Toronto if they do) because the money is lodged not in the individual market but in telling a story to the multiple eyeballs around the world.

 

The money says the Bills stay in this small market as the rabid fans here make for good storytelling for new eyeballa.

[Scrappy]

It really all depends upon the owner. If your owner is a business man, the NFL without a salary cap becomes a very difficult business to operate. The costs will escalate beyond your control and the owner would need to escalate his payments or face the wrath of customers with tangible proof he does not care enough about winning to pay for it.

 

On the other hand, if your owner is a sportsman as Pegula seems to be at least verbally, he is committed to spending amounts not justified for a businessman but doable if you have it for a sportsman.

 

Of course you only win if you are good smart sportsmen like the Rooneys in Pittsburgh and it does not matter how much money you have if you are an idiot like Dan Snyder with the Deadskins.

 

Yes, the era of the businessman like a Ralph is over. However, the era of the bad sportsman like Golisano or the potentially good sportsman like Pegula has begun.

 

The good news for football fans in this small market is that there actually even in our economically troubled town there is plenty of money that likely would want a team here like a Golisano, Pegula, and potentially Jeremy Jacobs.

 

Further, the game plan for the NFL appears to be to serve the true market which is the TV networks and the search for the many eyeballs in Mexico City, Europe. Toronto. and Asia. With the true customers and source of cash in mind, the fact the Bills have historic ties to old NFL and AFL is worth far more to the NFL than selling a few more tickets in some other town.

 

I doubt the Bills move (amd only to Toronto if they do) because the money is lodged not in the individual market but in telling a story to the multiple eyeballs around the world.

 

The money says the Bills stay in this small market as the rabid fans here make for good storytelling for new eyeballa.

 

Looking at our NFL championship history, it never started.

[shibuya]

without a cap then yes Football will become baseball where th ebig markets are always competing or quickly reloading and the small markets see their playoff runs ocasionally or not at all.

 

The league would suck.

 

I want my pro sports to form a socialistic revenue sharing model that leaves all teams created equal financially.

[Hplarrm]

without a cap then yes Football will become baseball where th ebig markets are always competing or quickly reloading and the small markets see their playoff runs ocasionally or not at all.

 

The league would suck.

 

I want my pro sports to form a socialistic revenue sharing model that leaves all teams created equal financially.

It is a great irony that a socialistic model which the NFL uses now brings in more money than the always at war model that resulted in the owners kicking the players unions butt in the mid 80s with the replacement player gambit.

[Wagon Circler]

Not if terry Pegula buys the team.

[Doc]

You statement, while completely wrong, is very interesting and important for this thread. 1993 is when free agency as we know it started and ever since this time the Bills have stunk, basically meaning that the Bills have not been able to compete in the modern-era of FA. So, basically take away the cap, the Bills would be even worse. Then again, the Skins don't have a salary cap imposed on them and they still suck.

Actually, also wrong. The Bills were good from 1995-1999. They started to stink once the cap cuts started, the Pats emerged, and the NFL went from 3 divisions with 3 division winners and 3 wildcards, to 4 divisions with 4 division winners and 2 wildcards, along with their poor drafting and FA signings.

[Mr. WEO]

without a cap then yes Football will become baseball where th ebig markets are always competing or quickly reloading and the small markets see their playoff runs ocasionally or not at all.

 

The league would suck.

 

I want my pro sports to form a socialistic revenue sharing model that leaves all teams created equal financially.

MLB has shown you don't need a big budget to compete, or win WS. Also has shown spending vast sums doesn't bring championships frequently.

 

There has been more variety in WS winners than SB winners in the last 10 years--where 3 teams have dominated SB appearances.

[It's in My Blood]

Actually, also wrong. The Bills were good from 1995-1999. They started to stink once the cap cuts started, the Pats emerged, and the NFL went from 3 divisions with 3 division winners and 3 wildcards, to 4 divisions with 4 division winners and 2 wildcards, along with their poor drafting and FA signings.

 

Bottom line here. Look at the Steelers , and the patriots. Yes , they do make the occasional big free agent deal , but for the most part they are built through the draft and run by top personnel men.

 

The Bills deterioration has nothing to do with changes in the amount of divisions or changes with the playoff system , but the stupid hires , free agent signings , and most importantly the horrendous draft choices over the last decade are what caused the Bills to be perennial bottom dwellers....that and the Flutie curse.

[Dragonborn10]

Salary cap or no salary cap - it is all about the QB position. The rest of the positions at this point are almost irrelavant. I know it is a team sport and a defense and an offensive line are important but there is no hope in smallville without a Kelly at QB. This team needs to take a chance on a QB in round one or two and pray it works out. Maybe they get crazy and draft two QB's (one ealry one late)to increase their odds.

[Hplarrm]

Salary cap or no salary cap - it is all about the QB position. The rest of the positions at this point are almost irrelavant. I know it is a team sport and a defense and an offensive line are important but there is no hope in smallville without a Kelly at QB. This team needs to take a chance on a QB in round one or two and pray it works out. Maybe they get crazy and draft two QB's (one ealry one late)to increase their odds.

Why take a chance om a QB in Round 1 or 2 when there is general agreement that once Luck decided to stay in that neither of the two best QBs in the class Newton or Gabbert are likely to be franchise QBs?

 

In addition, if you did spend a high draft pick on QB, this essentially guarantees you are not gonna get the best starter you can on a D which needs two starters to merely be adequate, and actually if you can find a way to trade down you should get a first round choice lower down in a deep draft and another second which might give you a shot at finding two or maybe three starters from this draft.

 

The worst thing is that lets say Newton or Gabbert actually might have the talent to ultimately become a franchise QB! However, by forgoing the opportunity to geta potential game changer on D or even better if you trade down the chance to draft two potential starters you need on D. Both situation involve chances rather than certainty but the chances of finding a starting LB of Pos quality in the second can be done but finding a franchise QB even at #3 is not just more dicey than finding a potential starter at OLB in the 2nd but actually there is a pretty good guarantee that no QB taken in the 1st or 2nd among available men is gonna be ready to start for a year or more.

 

This also is a reason why I hope we do not waste an early pick on a QB as this player will not only primarily need to run for his life rather than study the game behind an OL 2 players(and a year of chemistry building )away from adequacy.

 

The highly drafted QB should still be on the bench learning for hopefully for use in 2012, Yet the pressure from a few loud noisy fans who will be urged on by GR and Sully will pressure for this highly drafted QB will falk uder pressure to start him right away. The pressure will be on him to win but because we chose him we likely found only 1 of the two defenders we needs,

 

I agree we need a franchise QB but FA is a better shot at finding him through FA than an early draft pick,

[Doc]

Bottom line here. Look at the Steelers , and the patriots. Yes , they do make the occasional big free agent deal , but for the most part they are built through the draft and run by top personnel men.

 

The Bills deterioration has nothing to do with changes in the amount of divisions or changes with the playoff system , but the stupid hires , free agent signings , and most importantly the horrendous draft choices over the last decade are what caused the Bills to be perennial bottom dwellers....that and the Flutie curse.

The Bills have lacked a good QB for most of the decade, which has been the biggest part of the problem, given that the league has moved to a passing one. That falls under bad draft choices/FA pickups.

[Hplarrm]

The Bills have lacked a good QB for most of the decade, which has been the biggest part of the problem, given that the league has moved to a passing one. That falls under bad draft choices/FA pickups.

This has happened though as best as I can tell from Mr. Ralph foolishly having his team do stupid non-football moves in a continuing effort to replace the once in a football lifetime find of Jim Kelly. These events are:

 

1. Mr. Ralph made a handshake deal only he could make to promise Jimbo to reward him contractually in his next contract because the salary cap made it impossible for the Bills to up his payment before he hit FA, This was a stupid non-football intelligent move as even this uniformed outside observer could see that in his final football season Jimbo was done. He got concussed in the playoffs (he was good enough to lead a good team to the playoffs even though his own play was clearly ravaged by time and a lot of hits on a very tough man) and Mr. Ralph should have had the team move in the draft a year earlier or acquired an heir apparent in FA but the Bills waited and did not in a foolish thought that Jimbo would last forever. Mo one gets out of this time alive and Mr. Ralph made bad football judgments (that only he could make as it was his handshake promising his money which he apparently paid in a million $ walking away money to Jimbo which I think totally violated the cap).

 

2. Made a bad non-football mistake in not acquiring an heir apparent to Jimbo in what I think was 1995 so that instead they had to reach for TC as the best QB available to them in the 2nd round of the draft that year. TC was likely worth a third highest on most draft boards from what I could tell, If the Bills had drafted a potential heir QB the year before or gotten one through FA. This move of going for the next QB would have been a tough move which perhaps just is the obvious thing to do in 20/20 hindsight. However, even this uninformed fool was surprised when they did not pick a developmental QB late in the draft the year before they got TC and I simply assumed that we had an FA deal in the works or there was something about Jimbo I did not know as he looked done to this outsider. The sad truth is he was done and Mr. Ralph made a stupid football move in assuming he had another contract coming when it turned out thanks to playoff hits he was done.

 

3. They rushed TC to start when Jimbo was forced out even though he had clearly demonstrated that though he was incredibly accurate he had happy feet and bailed out to fast when he got pressured. Perhaps one could never train him out of this, but the Bills put themselves in a position where they did not have the time to try because Mr. Ralph made a bad football judgment that Jimbo had more time left than he had. Perhaps this was understandable even though this not fully informed outsider could see it in Jimbos final two years, but what is unforgiveable is that mr. Ralph made a decision only he could make to violate the salary cap by promising to reward Jimbo in his next contract which never happened.

 

4. I think the next step in the sad tale was the Billy Joe Hobert mess where out of desperation they sent a third to Oakland for a player whose mental make-up was so bad he not only let his teammates down by failing to do even basic preparation as a back-up but then stuck it to his teammates even further by publicly admitting his neglect. He got fired saving himself from being rightfully lynched by his teammates and the loyal fans. If Mr. Ralph was not involved in pulling the trigger on this mess it was malfeasance for him not be involved,

 

5. The coaching staff made a bold move which righted the ship of football state after this by risking signing Doug Flutie to a make good contract. The FO then made a critical error in that they not only traded for RJ, but then simply gave him a guaranteed contract which made it impossible for the team to honor its commitment to DF that he would win or lose the starter job on the field. Again Mr. Ralph was likely involved or it was malfeasance if he was not since so much of the team and his money was guaranteed to RJ.

 

6. Nr. Ralph was publicly all over the decision to start RJ in the playoffs after he shredded an Indy team that clearly was not playing hard after it became clear from the scoreboard that a win against the Bills would do them no good in playoff standing as their main opponent for seeding was winning by a lot, Seeing their starting OLB go down early in the Bills game with what proved to be a season ending injury simply set RJ up to shred Indy. In the what proved to be fruitless search for a new Jimbo RJ got the start in the last Bills playoff game and the team lost.

 

7. Etx, etc with ill-fated efforts with Bledsoe, JP and Edwards where the Bills made stupid fatal QB mistake after stupid mistake as they attempted to find the next Jim Kelly (even Bledsoe proved to be a demonstrably good sign where he proved to be Comeback player of the year in his first season as a Bill- if you disagree then simply name the QB who had a season you deem better than Bledsoe's who should have been on the Pro Bowl squad instead of him). However, the Bills grasped defeat from the jaws of simply cutting our loses when they extended Bledsoe after a horrible second year here. This was the fatal QB mistake which I lodge in Mr. Ralph's foolish efforts to find another Jimbo, I cannot do anymore details because it simply hurts too much,

 

Why this is relevant is that I think what the Bills should have done (and this is 20/20 hindsight) is actually build a team instead of making dumb big moves to attempt to get a franchise QB. To reach for Newton or Gabbert in the 1st round or Mallett in the 2nd instead of focusing on building a team with need picks of a DE, OLB, and RT to be merely adequate would be a mistake in my book. The same mistake we have made time and again for a decade in a fruitless search for the next Jimbo.