el Tigre Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 What's propagating an unsustainable and failing system is people taking worse and worse care of themselves, while giving them buffet-style health plans (including Medicare and Medicaid) which lead them to waste health care dollars at their whim. The system isn't failing because Big Pharma is creating new drugs; that's just a symptom of the much larger "disease." People are taking worse and worse care of themselves? Really? Compared to what era? It seems to me people are taking better care of themselves as compared to times gone by. There's alot more information available on nutrition and fitness,and people seem to be taking advantage of it. How many health clubs or gyms did you see 40 years ago? Now there's several in every town,and people are using them. Tobacco is slowly but surely being villified and less people are using it,and health food and organic sections are common in most grocery stores. Many health issues like heart disease,hypertension,high cholesterol,diabetes and even cancer have their roots in a persons genetics and can't be controlled by excercise and diet alone. It's easy to blame everybody elses health problems on them,but that ain't the realty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 People are taking worse and worse care of themselves? Really? Compared to what era? It seems to me people are taking better care of themselves as compared to times gone by. There's alot more information available on nutrition and fitness,and people seem to be taking advantage of it. How many health clubs or gyms did you see 40 years ago? Now there's several in every town,and people are using them. Tobacco is slowly but surely being villified and less people are using it,and health food and organic sections are common in most grocery stores. Many health issues like heart disease,hypertension,high cholesterol,diabetes and even cancer have their roots in a persons genetics and can't be controlled by excercise and diet alone. It's easy to blame everybody elses health problems on them,but that ain't the realty. Or at lest buying memberships. Yes there are better foods available in stores today, but next time you are in a grocery store look in shoppers carts. Cases of soda,chips,candy and canned[worthless] soup, maybe a lonely head of iceberg lettuce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 People are taking worse and worse care of themselves? Really? Compared to what era? It seems to me people are taking better care of themselves as compared to times gone by. There's alot more information available on nutrition and fitness,and people seem to be taking advantage of it. How many health clubs or gyms did you see 40 years ago? Now there's several in every town,and people are using them. Tobacco is slowly but surely being villified and less people are using it,and health food and organic sections are common in most grocery stores. Many health issues like heart disease,hypertension,high cholesterol,diabetes and even cancer have their roots in a persons genetics and can't be controlled by excercise and diet alone. It's easy to blame everybody elses health problems on them,but that ain't the realty. Have you see the annually-climbing obesity rate? The higher rates of drug use, including prescription drugs? Those are taking worse care of themselves. At best, the people who were already taking care of themselves are taking better care of themselves thanks to advances in health, but they weren't part of the problem anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Or at lest buying memberships. Yes there are better foods available in stores today, but next time you are in a grocery store look in shoppers carts. Cases of soda,chips,candy and canned[worthless] soup, maybe a lonely head of iceberg lettuce. The problem is that people have TOO much choice now... People will always make WRONG choices. If the generations before would have been given the choice we have now... IMO, they would have been much worse off handling those choices than people today. I also forgot to add that many more have more means, easier credit today. The deparity between the two groups is bigger. With greater means, comes the greater chance to make mistakes. Food can really be a "pacifier" for a nation's masses... Don't think that is lost on leaders. Have you see the annually-climbing obesity rate? The higher rates of drug use, including prescription drugs? Those are taking worse care of themselves. At best, the people who were already taking care of themselves are taking better care of themselves thanks to advances in health, but they weren't part of the problem anyway. Something's gotta keep people dieing... Life expectancy can't keep on growing... Just imagine the problem there would be. In the end, maybe our problems are a natural correction. Sure I joke... But think about it... What would happen if we all live into our 90's or 100's? I understand the med professions predictament... It is a double-edged sword... They can't just let people die and they can't just make everybody live forever. Quite a balancing act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I understand the med professions predictament... It is a double-edged sword... They can't just let people die and they can't just make everybody live forever. Quite a balancing act. That's an astute observation. Now give EII his computer back, whoever you are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 That's an astute observation. Now give EII his computer back, whoever you are... :lol: You know Tom... We have been on the board soooo long... My post was totally directed at you... I knew I would get you out of the woodwork! You have always a lot of interesting points when talking about stuff like this. Now on the other end of the balancing/push-pull or whatever act: "We can't ration health care!" "Death squads!" Or... Whatever slogan comes to mind! ... Let people "ration" it themselves with soda and chips! Interesting thing on this matter is... I know a guy at work that lost his leg above the knee when he was a teen (no fault of his own... A drunk hit him while waiting to go to school). He is due for a "new knee"... I find it facinating that they can put computers in it to tell how "active" he is... That way, the more active... The better the knee and lower the cost to him... Now, if a person didn't put so much miles on the thing... Give them the bargain basement prosthetic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Something's gotta keep people dieing... Life expectancy can't keep on growing... Just imagine the problem there would be. In the end, maybe our problems are a natural correction. Sure I joke... But think about it... What would happen if we all live into our 90's or 100's? I understand the med professions predictament... It is a double-edged sword... They can't just let people die and they can't just make everybody live forever. Quite a balancing act. Well, people are living longer with diseases that previously would have killed them at much younger ages. That's a large part of the reason why Medicare (and SS) is failing. That's an astute observation. Now give EII his computer back, whoever you are... Edited March 7, 2011 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well, people are living longer with diseases that previously would have killed them at much younger ages. That's a large part of the reason why Medicare (and SS) is failing. I was also gonna say something like this... But you know.. My brain is so scattered, I couldn't put it into words effectively... My grandfather lost his leg to diabetes because he didn't take care of himself... Died eventually @ 68 in 1978. Today, they would have kept him going no doubt! 68 is the new 48... Even with one leg and bad ass comb-over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 NSFW. on what's wrong with Americans. NSFW. Oh, did I mention, it's NSFW? It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 and then the clinical trials take 4-5 more years....I don't know of many drugs that have been on the market for 17 years under patent protection. Maybe you can tell me a few. Patents are my wheelhouse but even within that narrow range of expertise, I have no exposure to drug patents, which are their own very specialized beast. I suspect you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 and then the clinical trials take 4-5 more years....I don't know of many drugs that have been on the market for 17 years under patent protection. Maybe you can tell me a few. 15 years for Zoloft. Quite a few of the later SSRIs seem to have been on the market under patent for about that long, I presume because SSRI's were something of a "known" quantity after the first few, so later drug trials were somewhat quicker. If that guess is right, some of the later statins should have 15+ years of patent protection on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 15 years for Zoloft. Quite a few of the later SSRIs seem to have been on the market under patent for about that long, I presume because SSRI's were something of a "known" quantity after the first few, so later drug trials were somewhat quicker. If that guess is right, some of the later statins should have 15+ years of patent protection on the market. Makes sense. Lipitor was introduced in early 1997 and won't go off-patent until late 2011, so that's almost 15 years of patent protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 NSFW. George NSFW Carlin on what's wrong with Americans. NSFW. Oh, did I mention, it's NSFW? It is. :worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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