Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think your timeline is ridiculously long - replace middle east oil 3 years, replace all imported 10 years. A great people can do what a great people are motivated to do. I am so grateful that people like you weren't around a 50-100 years ago, we wouldn't have the Hoover dam, the interstate, or rural electrification just a bunch of short sighted spineless ninnies running around shaking fingers and yelling economically unsound. youtube.com/watch?v=SQI87lYz1Vs You realize it's eco-liberals that block all major projects nowadays with their incessant injunctions, protests, granola sit-ins, etc? The reason the Chinese get things done is because there's no environmentalist movement, no obscene regulation, no labor law. So, yes, we can get hings done too. Jut take of the shackles and see. Oh. What's that you say? Not willing to do that? Then stop complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 From the duplicate thread: The uprisings are people revolting against corrupt government--not because they want freedom--although that could be the end result. Afghanistan, which isn't really a country, doesn't provide any model for them. Iraq may but there, the people were scared to death to ever do what they did in these other countries. BTW, I like how this credit to Bush is being floated now. Obviously the Republican defenders are making a media push on this. It's easy to turn around though. "Don't you think that Iraqis would have seen what happened in Egypt and thrown out Saddam, saving us 4,000+ lives and a trillion or so dollars?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 No. Be careful what you wish for. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Don't push too hard and too fast like Reagan did. IMO, Communism (and to at least socialism) is the only thing that can keep radical Islam in check. My gut tells me, you don't want a democratic Islamic world. Really... I have saying this for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 From the duplicate thread: BTW, I like how this credit to Bush is being floated now. Obviously the Republican defenders are making a media push on this. It's easy to turn around though. "Don't you think that Iraqis would have seen what happened in Egypt and thrown out Saddam, saving us 4,000+ lives and a trillion or so dollars?" i've only seen this idea advanced in one other place. it's just as legitimate and defensible as the thesis advanced by the op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 You realize it's eco-liberals that block all major projects nowadays with their incessant injunctions, protests, granola sit-ins, etc? The reason the Chinese get things done is because there's no environmentalist movement, no obscene regulation, no labor law. So, yes, we can get hings done too. Jut take of the shackles and see. Oh. What's that you say? Not willing to do that? Then stop complaining. PLEASE! The reason the Chinese can get things done without all that pesky environmental and labor interference you're referring to is because China is controlled by a repressive, totalitarian government that can do whatever the hell it wants. Let's be more like China, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 "Don't you think that Iraqis would have seen what happened in Egypt and thrown out Saddam, saving us 4,000+ lives and a trillion or so dollars?" Actually, Iraqis were quite early in revolting against Saddam - both Kurds & Shiites. How did that uprising work out? Gadhafi is a lightweight by comparison in his response to the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Actually, Iraqis were quite early in revolting against Saddam - both Kurds & Shiites. How did that uprising work out? Gadhafi is a lightweight by comparison in his response to the opposition. Saddam is one of the greatest villains in history. He was horrible on an epic scale, his name alone makes me sick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Gadhafi is a lightweight by comparison in his response to the opposition. i don't think choosing between being gassed or bombed and strafed by jet fighters is a true choice. they're both heinous villains. the difference is that we and the brits found it convenient to support both for a time...one just longer than the other. terribly naive of me, but why not just do the moral, righteous thing on a regular basis? Edited February 23, 2011 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 i don't think choosing between being gassed or bombed and strafed by jet fighters is a true choice. there both heinous villains. the difference is that we and the brits found it convenient to support both for a time...one just longer than the other. terribly naive of me, but why not just do the moral, righteous thing on a regular basis? I am all for that, but sometimes playing politics is convenient and makes other things easier to do. Nothing is black and white in this world, unfortunately, and seeing things that way can become very dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 i don't think choosing between being gassed or bombed and strafed by jet fighters is a true choice. they're both heinous villains. the difference is that we and the brits found it convenient to support both for a time...one just longer than the other. terribly naive of me, but why not just do the moral, righteous thing on a regular basis? I wouldn't say support, more like tolerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Actually, Iraqis were quite early in revolting against Saddam - both Kurds & Shiites. How did that uprising work out? Gadhafi is a lightweight by comparison in his response to the opposition. Yes. Same thing in Iran. I put it in quotes just to show the speculative argument can be made on both sides. Gaddhafi is no lightweight. He's going down fighting like the crazy f^%& he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Saddam is one of the greatest villains in history. He was horrible on an epic scale, his name alone makes me sick I don't know about that...he was horrible, yes, but I think you're either forgetting about or underestimating the villians in history. Hell, I could probably name five from the last half of the 20th century without even straining...Pol Pot, Papa Doc, Stalin, Idi Amin, Bagosora (the guy largely responsible for the Rwandan genocide)... Yes. Same thing in Iran. I put it in quotes just to show the speculative argument can be made on both sides. Gaddhafi is no lightweight. He's going down fighting like the crazy f^%& he is. He's a lightweight. He's a petty thug, albiet a well-armed one. And I hope somebody puts a bullet through his head. I had a classmate on Pan Am 103. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The whole Gaddafi thing I find amazing... He held power since he was what? About 27 years old? Since 1969. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 i don't think choosing between being gassed or bombed and strafed by jet fighters is a true choice. they're both heinous villains. the difference is that we and the brits found it convenient to support both for a time...one just longer than the other. terribly naive of me, but why not just do the moral, righteous thing on a regular basis? When did we support Qadaffi Duck? Don't forget, too...different world back in the '80s. It was a bipolar world, where anyone not Soviet-bloc was good...usually...and the "moral, righteous thing" was therefore evident, being anti-Soviet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 When did we support Qadaffi Duck? Don't forget, too...different world back in the '80s. It was a bipolar world, where anyone not Soviet-bloc was good...usually...and the "moral, righteous thing" was therefore evident, being anti-Soviet. Yeah... God Bless Reagan and rest his soul for pushing that one. The west doesn't know how good they had it just hating on the CCCP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Yeah... God Bless Reagan and rest his soul for pushing that one. The west doesn't know how good they had it just hating on the CCCP! And Carter, and Nixon, and LBJ, and Kennedy, and Ike, and Truman...and a whole bunch of other world leaders (e.g. Churchill). It was the centerpiece of Western foreign policy for 40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 And Carter, and Nixon, and LBJ, and Kennedy, and Ike, and Truman...and a whole bunch of other world leaders (e.g. Churchill). It was the centerpiece of Western foreign policy for 40 years. Yeah... It may have collapsed on its own steam... But with Reagan, he saw the kink in the armor and pushed it under... Again TO HIS CREDIT! Kinda like pushing an old lady down. We still needed her to bake some cookies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Yeah... It may have collapsed on its own steam... But with Reagan, he saw the kink in the armor and pushed it under... Again TO HIS CREDIT! Kinda like pushing an old lady down. We still needed her to bake some cookies! sorry exiled, but it was a very good thing to remove (or at least markedly alter) an enemy that publicly stated its desire to bury us.( sting's "i hope the russians love their children too is replaying in my head now,thanks alot) the threat was real...we didn't need our cookies baked. When did we support Qadaffi Duck? do you recall the press coverage after he relinquished his nuclear program. he was made out a hero and no one, including our leaders pointed out the truth- that he is a f*&^%$#@ madman. and maybe i'm wrong but the whitehouse had to know of the lockerbie bomber deal with the brits- but not a public peep of disapproval before the deal was done. are we really that impotent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 do you recall the press coverage after he relinquished his nuclear program. he was made out a hero and no one, including our leaders pointed out the truth- that he is a f*&^%$#@ madman. and maybe i'm wrong but the whitehouse had to know of the lockerbie bomber deal with the brits- but not a public peep of disapproval before the deal was done. are we really that impotent? I wouldn't have called that "support". In as much as it was, I always had the feeling it was more along the lines of encouraging further reform. (Funny thing, given the thread title, is that's just about the only thing that vindicates W in any way...a major motivation for Qadaffi to give up his WMD programs was to avoid getting his personal and national ass kicked like Hussein did.) I don't know about the BP deal...I remember it, vividly, but I have absolutely no basis for judgement either way as to the White House's knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 sorry exiled, but it was a very good thing to remove (or at least markedly alter) an enemy that publicly stated its desire to bury us.( sting's "i hope the russians love their children too is replaying in my head now,thanks alot) the threat was real...we didn't need our cookies baked. And applying that standard to the Islamists .... Exactly how many people did the Soviets kill on US soil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts