Jay Feeley on Sirius NFL Radio discussing CBA talks

[San Jose Bills Fan]

 

It does work like that.... I work for the county. They want to tale 8% from me. 4% retro.... That would cripple me.. I shouldn't have to pay back money I already earned. That's the real world. At least the owners aren't asking for money back. I am not Maybin. I actually earned my money.

To the bolded…the owners aren't asking for money back? Then why do you think they have decided to reopen the CBA? I look forward to your answer.

 

And as a member of a public employee union (which as a Clark County employee, I assume you are), you are wrong on so many levels. And I'm not talking about standing united with your union brothers and sisters.

 

At least your employer (the government) has a level of transparency (their books are open) so that you can somewhat verify their claims that "the company" (the county) is having a fiscal crisis. You can argue about how to deal with that crisis but I'm sure you're not suggesting that the county is lying about a $145 million budget deficit. How do the players know that the owners aren't lying? The owners refuse to open their books.

 

 

I'm a union member…I work manual labor. I don't have sick days or paid days off like you do. If I don't work, I don't get paid. I don't have a career life expectancy like the vast majority of public employees. Construction workers like myself are often looking for city/town/county jobs. Like they say, you can't beat the benefits.

 

One other thing. Perhaps the fact that your "owner" is asking for money back which would "cripple you" suggests that you've been living above your means? A 24-year old NFL player who buys a Bentley isn't necessarily different from a working class person who buys a Lexus or a Corvette. It all comes down to what percentage of income is used for discretionary spending and what the expectation is for continuing to have that income. Working class folks can overspend too. I see it every day.

 

It's amazing to me how many working class people side with billionaire owners when in fact, most of them have much more in common with the players.

 

 

[thebandit27]

It's clear that you side with the owners. I side with the players but I don't really care to debate the issue. Neither of us is likely to change the other's mind.

 

However, the players' request for the owners to open their books is based on the very dubious claims made by the owners that teams are LOSING MONEY.

 

The players are asking for any proof that this is in fact the case. As outside financial experts have opined, it is very unlikely that the league or its teams are losing money.

 

These are some indisputable facts that you should consider:

 

1) The players are not striking. The owners are threatening to lock them out. The players want to continue to work. The owners will not let them under the existing agreement. This was an agreement that we the fans, were happy to not even think about as long as we had our NFL football.

2) The owners voted to approve this latest CBA in 2006. Now they are essentially opting to legally renege on it.

3) The NFLPA (players union) initial offer in this latest round of bargaining was essentially a smaller percentage of a larger pie…numbers crunchers have figured out that it amounts to approximately the same amount of money. In other words, the players are simply in favor of maintaining some semblance of the status quo (the status quo in which both players and owners have made unprecedented riches).

4) While it's true that the owners assume risk (inasmuch as a highly successful business typically tolerates risk), the players are the product. Fans will not pay the same amount of money to see a lower quality product. The billionaire owners are making money off the toils of millionaire players.

5) Those millionaire players have very short careers and have their own risks…long term and chronic health (including mental health) problems. Risk of devastating injuries, to name just a few.

6) Fans are pissed off because their cake (NFL games) is being taken away from them. As a result they are taking sides. Keep in mind again that if the owners hadn't decided to initiate and escalate this conflict and "take back what they see as rightfully their's (after they gave it away)" the vast majority of us wouldn't give a crap about how much each side is making. We are taking sides and are pissed off because the owners have decided to draw a line in the sand…and erase a line they had drawn five years ago.

 

Some fans blame the players, some blame the owners. But remember, it's the owners who are locking out the players…if anyone is killing the goose that laid the golden egg, it is the owners. The owners like to point to the risks they tolerate as businessmen but they are their own worst enemies…they themselves are creating the greatest risk/threat the sport has ever seen.

 

The owners can't agree on how to share league revenues among themselves, they can't be trusted to spend money wisely, and now through their greed and shortsightedness, they are jeopardizing a sport which is riding a wave of unprecedented popularity. The owners are their own worst enemies, and their greed and arrogance is a much bigger threat to the NFL business than the players are.

 

Everything you said is factually accurate, San Jose, but there are two sides to each point you've made, namely:

 

1) The owners do have the power to implement the "last offer" as the governing rules providing that a new agreement isn't reached by the March 4th deadline. The main reason they won't? The likelihood that a player strike would commence...

2) The players ratified the 2006 CBA extension with full knowledge that Ownership had an opt-out clause. I understand that the owners didn't do themselves a favor with the extension, but it's not as though they are attempting to pull a fast one with the opt-out.

3) The part that makes the money pool issue a little more complicated is that Owners are currently facing unprecedented cost burdens while taking in an unprecedentedly low percentage of the revenue. Whether we the fans believe them or not, the owners are claiming that they want to grow the game (thus growing the overall revenue for both sides), and that they'll need the additional revenue to invest in the game's growth.

4) The conundrum you've stated is the nature of any business: the owner makes the most because he risks the most (in terms of monetary investment, that is).

5) That's true enough, but they also have the benefit of being compensated with enough money ($200k+ per year for the absolute league minimum) to ensure that they and their families can handle the financial burden that the realization of such risk scenarios would impart on them, provided they spend/invest their income wisely, and they have the owners to thank for that.

6) Again, the players did ratify an agreement that put control in the hands of the owners to opt-out; they didn't have to agree to that clause.

 

While I share your vitriol for the situation, I really haven't directed more of my anger toward one side or the other. I do side, in small part, with the owners, because--as a small business owner myself--I relate more to their business approach than the players. I've also lived life as an employee, and I can see both sides of the disagreement. Let me say this: the owners are not "right" in their stance, but I do believe that they have a point when they stress to the players that they're the people laying down several hundred million dollars per season to operate the business that results in the players' collective livelihood.

 

It's a tough situation to analyze, and I think you've made some great points; I just happen to believe that there are equally great points on the other side of the coin.

Edited February 15, 2011 by thebandit27

[Chandemonium]

I don't feel bad for the players. I simply can't feel any sympathy for owners like Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones like you apparently do. The owners aren't a bunch of modern day Robin Hoods that are stealing from the rich players to give to us poor schmucks. They are simply filthy rich schmucks trying to steal from less filthy rich schmucks to line their own pockets.

When did I say I felt sympathy for the owners? The only side I have any sympathy for is the side with no say in the negotiations that will be the biggest losers no matter the outcome, the fans. I just want football next year, and if there is no football next year, it will be due to the owner's greed, so in that sense I would side with the players if I had to choose a side. Nevertheless, the often repeated notion that the players don't have it as good as you or I think they do is either complete BS, or their own fault IMO.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Then you take the 1.5 - 2.0 mil(at the very minimum) you earned, in conjunction with your 4 year degree and you have a great start on the rest of your life that most 25-27 year old never dreamed possible.

Here's something to consider. The players in the NFL are there mostly because of their physical talents and the fact that they worked very hard to develop those talents. If they are living the dream as you suggest it's because they EARNED that dream through hard work and talent.

 

I'm not where I want to be in life right now. If I had to do it over again I would do it differently. Opportunity visits almost everyone during the course of their lives. I've squandered some opportunities and have either not worked hard enough or smart enough at times to be where I'd like to be. Still I'm content and don't begrudge others what they have.

 

Sounds good except that even if the owners keep the players in check, that still won't stop them from trying to squeeze every dollar they can out of the fans and lining their own pockets.

Certainly neither side particularly cares about the fans…but why should they? They take us for granted and here we are talking about them. Case in point.

 

Holy crap! If I didn't know better, I'd swear that you just made it seem like I had a better start on life as a 25 year old than a player leaving the NFL after 3-1/2 years.

 

its true -- instead here i am in debt, and having never lived the dream.

 

if you gave me a million dollars, id invest the hell out of it. and not in gold chains and sports cars.

 

So you're smarter than they are? You have a better sense of values? How do you know this without experiencing what they've experienced? The fact that you are self-admittedly in debt…and that you wonder what you might do if someone "gave you a million dollars"…this suggests to me that you shouldn't be judging the players so harshly.

 

Here's an idea. Go out there and earn your own millions. If you have the talent and the work ethic, you wouldn't need anyone to "give" you a million dollars" to invest. Your argument is almost nonsensical. If you're better/harder working/more talented in your own way than the NFL player, why don't you just prove it?

 

In truth there's so much jealousy towards the players because most of us would like to trade places with the NFL players. Because so many fans would trade places with them, we think that they don't appreciate what they have. This might be true but if we grew up as them, what makes you think we'd be any different? Aren't the NFL players, like ourselves, not largely a product of their experiences in life? If you were brought up in their life experiences, what makes you think you'd be any different from them?

 

At the very least, they should make enough in 3 1/2 years in the NFL to pay off their student loans. Oh wait, they don't have any because they got to go for free. Why are we supposed to feel bad for them? no one is forcing them to make stupid financial decisions and not plan for the future. The bottom line is even if they aren't filthy rich, anyone with 3 1/2 years in the NFL should be much better off than the average 20 something recent college graduate. Whether they actually are or not is no one's decision but their own, and I find it hard to have any sympathy for someone who chooses to waste that opportunity.

I'm not saying to have sympathy for the players. The discussion really is about who you side with. Players or owners.

 

What do you think the typical background of a player is? What do you think the typical background of an owner is? And what is it about you as an individual that makes you seemingly more sympathetic to the owners than the players? Have you ever asked yourself this question?

 

 

Edited February 15, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Firstly to the Bandit27, thanks for the thoughtful and intelligent response to my post. We could probably quibble a bit more…my perspective is more from the labor side…but I think we are in greater agreement than disagreement.

 

When did I say I felt sympathy for the owners? The only side I have any sympathy for is the side with no say in the negotiations that will be the biggest losers no matter the outcome, the fans. I just want football next year, and if there is no football next year, it will be due to the owner's greed, so in that sense I would side with the players if I had to choose a side. Nevertheless, the often repeated notion that the players don't have it as good as you or I think they do is either complete BS, or their own fault IMO.

Apologies for assuming you sided with the owners. I don't think that either side is acting from a perch of higher virtue…but I find it amazing that the owners, who have initiated this labor impasse are getting as much sympathy as they do.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[thebandit27]

Firstly to the Bandit27, thanks for the thoughtful and intelligent response to my post. We could probably quibble a bit more…my perspective is more from the labor side…but I think we are in greater agreement than disagreement.

 

That is for certain; I think we both want a resolution that will provide both the players and the owners the wherewithall to bring the game to the next level, and to have it done in a timely fashion that would save the fans from the contempt that a long disruption in league activities would undoubtedly breed.

 

I want to also say that I appreciate the chance to read an educated opinion from the other point of view, since a business owner's success relies heavily upon his/her ability to relate to the wants/needs of their team (employees, partners, investors, etc.). The added perspective is--in my opinion--invaluable.

 

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that regardless of which side you relate to, the greater issue at hand is that neither side is working with the best intention of the game in mind, which means neither side has the fans' interest in mind. That, more than anything, is what upsets me.

 

Sheesh man, imagine if the league and players could discuss the matter this frankly...they might not be in this situation.

Edited February 15, 2011 by thebandit27

[JohnC]

However, the players' request for the owners to open their books is based on the very dubious claims made by the owners that teams are LOSING MONEY.

 

The players are asking for any proof that this is in fact the case. As outside financial experts have opined, it is very unlikely that the league or its teams are losing money.

 

 

What would happen if you had difficulty making your mortgage payments because of a change in your employment circumstances? You could go to the bank asking for a change to the terms of the original loan you signed so that you could get some relief from the onerous payments. The bank officer would of course ask for documentation regarding your current financial status. That is not unreasonable. If you told the bank officer that you wouldn't prove that your status has changed and that the banker should simply take your word for it what do you think the banker's response would be?

 

There is nothing unusual about a company going to the union and ask for give backs because the company is struggling in a very changed economic environment. That's exactly what happened to the auto industry. But if the company is being more profitable than before how do you think the union is going to respond?

 

The owners are making the claim that the current CBA is unworkable. If that is the case then asking them to prove it is not unreasonable.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

What would happen if you had difficulty making your mortgage payments because of a change in your employment circumstances? You could go to the bank asking for a change to the terms of the original loan you signed so that you could get some relief from the onerous payments. The bank officer would of course ask for documentation regarding your current financial status. That is not unreasonable. If you told the bank officer that you wouldn't prove that your status has changed and that the banker should simply take your word for it what do you think the banker's response would be?

 

There is nothing unusual about a company going to the union and ask for give backs because the company is struggling in a very changed economic environment. That's exactly what happened to the auto industry. But if the company is being more profitable than before how do you think the union is going to respond?

 

The owners are making the claim that the current CBA is unworkable. If that is the case then asking them to prove it is not unreasonable.

I agree totally, John. The owners shouldn't expect that they can have it both ways.

[Chandemonium]

 

I'm not saying to have sympathy for the players. The discussion really is about who you side with. Players or owners.

 

What do you think the typical background of a player is? What do you think the typical background of an owner is? And what is it about you as an individual that makes you seemingly more sympathetic to the owners than the players? Have you ever asked yourself this question?

I'm not particularly sympathetic to either side. My simplistic view is I want to watch Bills football next fall, and I will be upset with whoever takes that away. Right now, its looking like it will be the owners who pull the trigger on a lockout if it comes to that, so in that sense I side with the players. That just doesn't stop me from thinking that the players have it pretty damn good.

 

Now that we have that cleared up, you pose some interesting questions regarding my perceptions and background which I will try to answer. I am a 22 year old graduate student. By the time I finish school in 3 years at age 25, I will be approximately $100,000 in debt due to my undergraduate and graduate student loans, and the starting salary in my field is around $50,000 a year. By the time an NFL player reaches 25, they have 2-3 years in the league making at minimum a few hundred thousand a year, after not paying a dime for their college education. Essentially in the same amount of time, they have made several times more money than I will owe. In addition, they make in 1-2 years what it will take me 10 years to make. Even if they didn't finish their degree the first time around, if they live within their means they should have no problem going back to school for whatever field they choose to enter after football and graduating debt free. From where I'm sitting, It's hard to be sympathetic to a guy who blows an opportunity like that, but as someone who has blown an entire paycheck in a weekend, I can at least empathize with being 20 something and thinking you have a lot of money, although I only did this once and quickly learned my lesson.

 

Regarding the owners, my perception is that even the least wealthy one has more money than I could spend in several lifetimes. I can't imagine what having that amount of money is like, and I especially can't imagine having that much money and wanting more, which is probably one reason why I will never have that much money. As much sympathy as I lack for the players, I can at least empathize with them somewhat due to our similar age demographics. The owners are so far out of my league in terms of just about every important demographic category that I can't even begin to empathize with them, and I especially have no sympathy for them.

[GG]

The players are delusional. Feeley was crying about how the NFLPA knows how much revenues the owners are getting, but they don't know the owners costs. Therefore, they don't know how much of a profit the owners are making, insinuating that the bigger the profit, the more the players should get.

 

WTF world are they living in where you demand a bigger salary based on your employers bottom line?

 

Then he went on to piss and moan about how if they are locked out, they will have to pay for their own health insurance, blah, blah, blah. BOO FREAKIN' HOO!

 

Even if it means losing the season, I hope the owners lock them out and make them eventually come crawling back.

 

:censored:

 

Because the players' salaries are the biggest cost item for the sports teams and the only item that is available to the players. The owners' bottom line has a greater correlation with worker salaries than almost any other industry. It should be compared to big law firms, investment banks or Hollywood. In those cases, compensation is routinely 60% of total revenues.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I'm not particularly sympathetic to either side. My simplistic view is I want to watch Bills football next fall, and I will be upset with whoever takes that away. Right now, its looking like it will be the owners who pull the trigger on a lockout if it comes to that, so in that sense I side with the players. That just doesn't stop me from thinking that the players have it pretty damn good.

 

Now that we have that cleared up, you pose some interesting questions regarding my perceptions and background which I will try to answer. I am a 22 year old graduate student. By the time I finish school in 3 years at age 25, I will be approximately $100,000 in debt due to my undergraduate and graduate student loans, and the starting salary in my field is around $50,000 a year. By the time an NFL player reaches 25, they have 2-3 years in the league making at minimum a few hundred thousand a year, after not paying a dime for their college education. Essentially in the same amount of time, they have made several times more money than I will owe. In addition, they make in 1-2 years what it will take me 10 years to make. Even if they didn't finish their degree the first time around, if they live within their means they should have no problem going back to school for whatever field they choose to enter after football and graduating debt free. From where I'm sitting, It's hard to be sympathetic to a guy who blows an opportunity like that, but as someone who has blown an entire paycheck in a weekend, I can at least empathize with being 20 something and thinking you have a lot of money, although I only did this once and quickly learned my lesson.

 

Regarding the owners, my perception is that even the least wealthy one has more money than I could spend in several lifetimes. I can't imagine what having that amount of money is like, and I especially can't imagine having that much money and wanting more, which is probably one reason why I will never have that much money. As much sympathy as I lack for the players, I can at least empathize with them somewhat due to our similar age demographics. The owners are so far out of my league in terms of just about every important demographic category that I can't even begin to empathize with them, and I especially have no sympathy for them.

Thanks for responding. My queries were really rhetorical and your answers are not really any of my business, although I'm grateful that you thought enough to reply.

 

It's endlessly interesting to me why people arrive at and hold the views that they do.

 

 

Clearly lots of us are anxious about having our NFL taken away from us. It's interesting how that anxiety manifests itself. One mistake I've made in life (since rectified…or at least mitigated) is to live vicariously through my favorite sports teams…the Bills and the Sabres. Too much of my life's energies and time have been spent engaged in thought to them. Now as a person more than twice your age, I can say that I have things in much better perspective and would not for instance, miss or delay a significant event in my own life for the sake of watching a sporting event…or wallowing in the despair of a loss. It's clear from what you've written about yourself that your affliction won't derail your life as mine has.

 

And if it's any solace to you, life is a marathon, not a sprint and I sense that you'll finish pretty high in the field.

 

As for the NFL players, the sad truth is that more than half of them will lead a life of financial and physical distress and disappointment. Each and every one of them (and us) should shoulder the responsibility for the outcome of our lives. That said, we are all products of all those things one would call "life experience." The resentment, jealousy, and anger I see directed at professional athletes seems a bit ignorant to me.

 

I was raised with some definite advantages and to be honest, have somewhat underachieved. Many of these players have overcome great hurdles to be in the NFL. While some, regardless of their backgrounds are abject failures as human beings, others, like Warrick Dunn, London Fletcher, Nic Harris, Ronnie Vinklarek, Jon Dorenbos, and many others have climbed huge mountains of adversity just to be where they are today. So a person's innate character is part of the equation.

 

But more to my point, they like us, are largely products of their life experiences.

 

How many of us would acquit ourselves better than someone like Marshawn Lynch if we were switched with them at birth? Why do so many sports fans feel they are better people than the athletes whom they have never met…whose life circumstances they are not familiar with?

 

And to finish, why do some people viscerally side with the owners over the players?

 

Anyways, thanks again for your reply.

 

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

Here's something to consider. The players in the NFL are there mostly because of their physical talents and the fact that they worked very hard to develop those talents. If they are living the dream as you suggest it's because they EARNED that dream through hard work and talent.

 

I'm not where I want to be in life right now. If I had to do it over again I would do it differently. Opportunity visits almost everyone during the course of their lives. I've squandered some opportunities and have either not worked hard enough or smart enough at times to be where I'd like to be. Still I'm content and don't begrudge others what they have.

 

 

Certainly neither side particularly cares about the fans…but why should they? They take us for granted and here we are talking about them. Case in point.

 

 

 

 

 

So you're smarter than they are? You have a better sense of values? How do you know this without experiencing what they've experienced? The fact that you are self-admittedly in debt…and that you wonder what you might do if someone "gave you a million dollars"…this suggests to me that you shouldn't be judging the players so harshly.

 

Here's an idea. Go out there and earn your own millions. If you have the talent and the work ethic, you wouldn't need anyone to "give" you a million dollars" to invest. Your argument is almost nonsensical. If you're better/harder working/more talented in your own way than the NFL player, why don't you just prove it?

 

In truth there's so much jealousy towards the players because most of us would like to trade places with the NFL players. Because so many fans would trade places with them, we think that they don't appreciate what they have. This might be true but if we grew up as them, what makes you think we'd be any different? Aren't the NFL players, like ourselves, not largely a product of their experiences in life? If you were brought up in their life experiences, what makes you think you'd be any different from them?

 

 

I'm not saying to have sympathy for the players. The discussion really is about who you side with. Players or owners.

 

What do you think the typical background of a player is? What do you think the typical background of an owner is? And what is it about you as an individual that makes you seemingly more sympathetic to the owners than the players? Have you ever asked yourself this question?

 

 

i cant think of a single profession outside of the very rare athlete/entertainer that makes that million in there first two years out of school. i like many others, went to college, busted my butt to get good grades - graduated a top 50 university with honors and a ton of community involvement and internships, and am working myself really hard to pay back the schooling i paid for in an effort to get that dream job someday.

 

these guys even at 2-3 years out of school have such a huge gift and advantage over the average college graduate. id love to put more into investments. i am busy building a savings for a first house, and paying student loans.

 

im not sure how me saying it would be a dream come true to play 2-3 years in the nfl, and come out with a degree, a lot of money, and a lot of cache when you walk into a company looking for an opportunity is a bad thing. unfortunately, i wasnt gifted with a 4.3 40 yard dash. i am still proving my worth and finding my niche.

 

how you can rip my situation, i am not entirely sure.

 

 

 

 

i generally agree the player salaries, and rookie ones especially need to reign in a little bit. i think 18 games is too many. i think health care should be earned based on experience -- the longer you play, the longer it lasts. i think its silly that these sides cant get on the same page. i think its silly to hate the owners because they have more money. i think the owners were generally idiots to sign the last cba the way they did, what, 30 minutes after receiving the last offer. i think the league would be wise to tie rewards to continuing education in the offseason and developing not just players but men. i think that its fair as hell to come down hard on repeat offenders with the code of conduct. i think it would be great to give the players more security with contracts. i think they should with arrests, convictions, conduct and drug violations give the owners outs on those contracts in exchange. i think that drug testing shouldnt be the joke it is, and the only people being hurt by the union fighting it, are the union members themselves.

 

which side am i on? probably a little towards the owners in this fight, but i think mostly the good of the game that i am looking at.

Edited February 15, 2011 by NoSaint

[San Jose Bills Fan]

i cant think of a single profession outside of the very rare athlete/entertainer that makes that million in there first two years out of school. i like many others, went to college, busted my butt to get good grades - graduated a top 50 university with honors and a ton of community involvement and internships, and am working myself really hard to pay back the schooling i paid for in an effort to get that dream job someday.

 

these guys even at 2-3 years out of school have such a huge gift and advantage over the average college graduate. id love to put more into investments. i am busy building a savings for a first house, and paying student loans.

 

im not sure how me saying it would be a dream come true to play 2-3 years in the nfl, and come out with a degree, a lot of money, and a lot of cache when you walk into a company looking for an opportunity is a bad thing. unfortunately, i wasnt gifted with a 4.3 40 yard dash. i am still proving my worth and finding my niche.

 

how you can rip my situation, i am not entirely sure.

 

 

 

 

i generally agree the player salaries, and rookie ones especially need to reign in a little bit. i think 18 games is too many. i think health care should be earned based on experience -- the longer you play, the longer it lasts. i think its silly that these sides cant get on the same page. i think its silly to hate the owners because they have more money. i think the owners were generally idiots to sign the last cba the way they did, what, 30 minutes after receiving the last offer. i think the league would be wise to tie rewards to continuing education in the offseason and developing not just players but men. i think that its fair as hell to come down hard on repeat offenders with the code of conduct. i think it would be great to give the players more security with contracts. i think they should with arrests, convictions, conduct and drug violations give the owners outs on those contracts in exchange. i think that drug testing shouldnt be the joke it is, and the only people being hurt by the union fighting it, are the union members themselves.

 

which side am i on? probably a little towards the owners in this fight, but i think mostly the good of the game that i am looking at.

To the bolded above, I'm sincerely sorry. I was reading something into your previous post which wasn't there. Please accept my apologies. Thank you also for not escalating the situation. I appreciate that you didn't overreact, which would have been justified.

 

You bring up some good points about your own road, and by implication, the road these athletes have taken.

 

Here are two things I would say to people (not directed at you) who resent the players and characterize them in a negative light (greedy, entitled, undeserving, unappreciative, etc).

 

There are approximately 1800 players in the NFL. If you were to look at it demographically, that's a very small percentage. If you look at their earnings, they occupy (for a short while) the highest percentile relative to there demographics.

 

I come from a family of high achievers, even though I myself am not one. But I am the exception in my family. Most everyone in my family pursued advanced degrees, chose respected professions, and racked up big bucks in student loans attaining their goals.

 

My first point is that one reason these 1800 men are so well compensated is because they are elite talents. They are in the highest percentile, so to speak.

 

Just for a point of comparison, 40,000 students graduate from law school each year. About 20,000 students graduate from U.S. medical schools each year. Again, there are 1800 NFL players, maybe a sixth of them (300) are rookies in any given year.

 

My second point is that another reason NFL players make so much money is because of we, the fans. We're sitting here reading and writing about them. We attend games, buy merchandise, watch the games (advertising), purchase the NFL Sunday Ticket or similar products…we vote with our dollars and we have voted to make these men rich. There's a degree of hypocrisy to admonish rich athletes who we ourselves have made rich.

 

Anyways, as I've said before, I don't understand the negativity directed at the players. In one sense, they are the elite in their fields and why should we begrudge them that? In a different sense, it is us who have made them rich…they are products of our society. It is our values who have made them rich. Why should we criticize them for doing what we ourselves would do if given the chance?

[JohnC]

 

i think the owners were generally idiots to sign the last cba the way they did, what, 30 minutes after receiving the last offer.

 

As I and others have asked: why do you think the owners signed a bad deal? What if they are actually making more money than they did in the previous CBA? Are you simply taking the owners' word for it?

 

This CBA quarrell has as much to do with the sharing proportion between the richer franchises and the smaller market franchises as it has to do between the owners and players.

 

which side am i on? probably a little towards the owners in this fight, but i think mostly the good of the game that i am looking at.

 

The reopening of the CBA had little to do with the good of the game. It was about making more money. Sometimes the golden goose is not good enough. The desire is for a bigger goose. Ultimately, the fans are going to pay more to make up the difference.

Edited February 15, 2011 by JohnC

[NoSaint]

To the bolded above, I'm sincerely sorry. I was reading something into your previous post which wasn't there. Please accept my apologies. Thank you also for not escalating the situation. I appreciate that you didn't overreact, which would have been justified.

 

You bring up some good points about your own road, and by implication, the road these athletes have taken.

 

Here are two things I would say to people (not directed at you) who resent the players and characterize them in a negative light (greedy, entitled, undeserving, unappreciative, etc).

 

There are approximately 1800 players in the NFL. If you were to look at it demographically, that's a very small percentage. If you look at their earnings, they occupy (for a short while) the highest percentile relative to there demographics.

 

I come from a family of high achievers, even though I myself am not one. But I am the exception in my family. Most everyone in my family pursued advanced degrees, chose respected professions, and racked up big bucks in student loans attaining their goals.

 

My first point is that one reason these 1800 men are so well compensated is because they are elite talents. They are in the highest percentile, so to speak.

 

Just for a point of comparison, 40,000 students graduate from law school each year. About 20,000 students graduate from U.S. medical schools each year. Again, there are 1800 NFL players, maybe a sixth of them (300) are rookies in any given year.

 

My second point is that another reason NFL players make so much money is because of we, the fans. We're sitting here reading and writing about them. We attend games, buy merchandise, watch the games (advertising), purchase the NFL Sunday Ticket or similar products…we vote with our dollars and we have voted to make these men rich. There's a degree of hypocrisy to admonish rich athletes who we ourselves have made rich.

 

Anyways, as I've said before, I don't understand the negativity directed at the players. In one sense, they are the elite in their fields and why should we begrudge them that? In a different sense, it is us who have made them rich…they are products of our society. It is our values who have made them rich. Why should we criticize them for doing what we ourselves would do if given the chance?

 

apology certainly accepted.

 

i just dont feel sorry for them. i think thats different then begrudging them. i think that the two examples you brought are people going through advanced degrees, going through tons of work, elite minds, rare finds, and coming out often in debt, struggling to find jobs right now even though they are those elite talents. the only way an nfl player finds themselves in that spot is if theyve screwed something up themselves. even if they dont ever get a job in the nfl, its a free degree for most good players -- i know they do a lot of work, but get a lot of perks too.

 

with the economy what it is, things have changed for everyone, and that includes players. things like stadium expenses are going to be shifting back on the owners, something that i think makes it ok for them to want a little back for. im not saying give them less then they traditionally have gotten. im saying lets find a middle ground and take back a little of what was added in that sweetheart deal they got last time.

 

 

i think my initial reactions to this thread are based in being tired of some of the players crying foul. i also grow weary of jay feeley trying to stir things up for hits. the jerry richardson thing was a non-story that he created. even if it is true, i dont need to hear about it as an average fan. i dont need to hear mawae and cromartie arguing publicly, i dont need to hear 99.99% of players opinions on this. just like i dont expect the bills executive assistant to weigh in, i dont want to hear a 3rd string player chime in that his life will be so hard at the end of his 3 year career.

 

right now i am getting a lot more mouths running on the players side, and i think its eating up some of my good will.

 

i just want someone to actually argue for the good of the game instead of the good of their pockets. game keeps growing, theyll only be richer then rich for years to come. as a player, you give up 5% and revenue grows an extra 20 by avoiding a labor stoppage, you still came out ahead.... and its still a raise over where you were 5 years ago. just get to the table with a real proposal, offer a few percentage points back and get to work. the first offer constituted a small raise from the numbers i saw but they framed it as giving nearly 10% back. i think thats a sh***y way to kick things off.

Edited February 15, 2011 by NoSaint

[Scraps]

apology certainly accepted.

 

i just dont feel sorry for them. i think thats different then begrudging them. i think that the two examples you brought are people going through advanced degrees, going through tons of work, elite minds, rare finds, and coming out often in debt, struggling to find jobs right now even though they are those elite talents. the only way an nfl player finds themselves in that spot is if theyve screwed something up themselves. even if they dont ever get a job in the nfl, its a free degree for most good players -- i know they do a lot of work, but get a lot of perks too.

 

with the economy what it is, things have changed for everyone, and that includes players. things like stadium expenses are going to be shifting back on the owners, something that i think makes it ok for them to want a little back for. im not saying give them less then they traditionally have gotten. im saying lets find a middle ground and take back a little of what was added in that sweetheart deal they got last time.

 

How do you know the players got a 'sweetheart deal'. Without the owners opening their books you really have no basis for judgment.

 

 

i think my initial reactions to this thread are based in being tired of some of the players crying foul. i also grow weary of jay feeley trying to stir things up for hits. the jerry richardson thing was a non-story that he created. even if it is true, i dont need to hear about it as an average fan. i dont need to hear mawae and cromartie arguing publicly, i dont need to hear 99.99% of players opinions on this. just like i dont expect the bills executive assistant to weigh in, i dont want to hear a 3rd string player chime in that his life will be so hard at the end of his 3 year career.

 

right now i am getting a lot more mouths running on the players side, and i think its eating up some of my good will.

 

i just want someone to actually argue for the good of the game instead of the good of their pockets. game keeps growing, theyll only be richer then rich for years to come. as a player, you give up 5% and revenue grows an extra 20 by avoiding a labor stoppage, you still came out ahead.... and its still a raise over where you were 5 years ago. just get to the table with a real proposal, offer a few percentage points back and get to work. the first offer constituted a small raise from the numbers i saw but they framed it as giving nearly 10% back. i think thats a sh***y way to kick things off.

 

My initial reaction to this thread is that so many of you are so desperate to have football next year that you swallow the owners spin hook line and sinker.

 

I'm tired of owners moving teams from Baltimore to Indy or from Cleveland to Baltimore claiming that they aren't making money but not opening their books to prove it. I'm tired of owners extorting money out of taxpayers for stadium deals without opening their books.

 

I live in the Washington DC area where the owner has charged for admission to training camp, charged for parking at training camp, sued season ticket owners who have lost their jobs in the bad economy even though there is a decades long waiting list for seasons tickets, bought stale peanuts from a defunct airline and sold them at exorbitant prices, tried to humiliate a head coach into resigning so he wouldn't have to pay the contract he signed, just to name a few.

 

I've been to Cowboys stadium where they are proud of the opulent fixtures, which don't need to be in a stadium, that drove costs to $1.2 billion.

 

This issue is as much due to money grubbing owners like Snyder and Jones who don't want to treat the rest of the owners as partners in for what is basically a monopoly as the players and I am sick of people just taking the owners side simply because if the players cave in, we will have football in the fall.

[KOKBILLS]

Sounds good on paper but how much of the 1.5-2.0 mil to they actually pocket? How much goes to the government in taxes? How much goes to agents? How many of these guys learned anything useful in college to set them up for a real career?

 

Seriously? You're kidding right?

[Thunderstealer]

 

 

Without the owners, the NFL players would be no different than 99% of all NCAA athletes. Looking for a real job when their college days were over.

 

They just don't know how good they have it.

 

That's true. But without the Union, players would make 17$ an hour with 500$ game bonuses

[the_franchise]

The players are delusional. Feeley was crying about how the NFLPA knows how much revenues the owners are getting, but they don't know the owners costs. Therefore, they don't know how much of a profit the owners are making, insinuating that the bigger the profit, the more the players should get.

 

WTF world are they living in where you demand a bigger salary based on your employers bottom line?

 

Then he went on to piss and moan about how if they are locked out, they will have to pay for their own health insurance, blah, blah, blah. BOO FREAKIN' HOO!

 

Even if it means losing the season, I hope the owners lock them out and make them eventually come crawling back.

 

:censored:

 

Thats the one thing about the players that I could never understand. If you're making the league minimum (285,000 for a rookie I believe) and don't like your insurance policy with the league whats stopping you from getting your own? Now having your health care taken care of after you retire and blow your entire careers salary, if you lean the leagues way then you get what you get. Are all other professions going to threaten to holdout for things like this? I guess when you start making 6 figures as a 21-25 year old you don't really know how to manage your money.

 

First year $275,000: 2nd year is $350,000: 3rd year is $425,000: 4th year is $500,000: 5th-year is $585,000

 

That works out to about $2,135,000 (if my math is good) which is more than the average guy who works 40 years is usually going to see in much less time. Plus with the possibility of endorsements and other incentives the number only goes up. Maybe they should appoint every new player with a financial adviser when they come into the league so that when they do retire they have something left over to live on and they're $15,000 pension will help cover the rest. These guys that only last a year or two, unless you get hurt, you should have actually got a degree that would've been useful.

[ETD66SS]

Both sides are greedy, and are trying to grab as much money as they can get.

 

However, of the two groups, the players are the more ignorant, and less deserving of the cash.

 

As people, the players are the ones who are coddled and given everything since their talent was discovered, they don't have normal lives, and they don't have the same reality as many of the owners who built their empires to get to the point of owning an NFL team. Sure, many owners are a-holes, but not much you can do about that. Overall, the players are the ones who don't have a clue, and should not be demanding more than they currently get. They already get paid too much. The players are basically spoiled children with entitlement issues.