Whitner Career Year

[Dawgg]

:lol:

[San Jose Bills Fan]

On average, our D is on the field 33:42 per game which gives them about a 20% increased exposure to the opposition's O.

How many more hits could a MLB player get with 20% more at bats? It's not insignificant.

Math much?

 

Letting him go would not create an insurmountable hole to fill. That's the point.

 

It has nothing to do with his draft status or his attitude, but rather his play on the field, which has been ordinary at best.

I agree. I've supported Donte as he's always tried to be a team spokesman and leader (the whole regular DB meetings at his house, etc.). I've also pointed out on numerous occasions that if he doesn't live up to his draft spot, it's not his fault. It's the Bills fault for having drafted him there.

 

That said, he's an average starting safety IMO, who is in the last year of a contract that has paid him $29 million. That's nearly $6 million per season.

 

It seems like the team could find an equivalent player for less…or a better player for not much more.

 

Threads like this will just encourage the FO to extend this weak safety.

[Dawgg]

It seems like the team could find an equivalent player for less…or a better player for not much more.

Exactly right. Preferably a player who does not

 

(a) drop sure interceptions

 

-or-

 

(b) jump up 4 feet in the air on a blitz instead of sacking the QB.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Dawgg

[Sisyphean Bills]

Reading this article http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Whitner-trending-up/0648c88e-fc74-4ae0-b0f9-1059b0f202b6 is sort of like seeing a hypothetical sweeper arm swat Dean's Whitner defense arguments into a swimming pool on Wipeout...

[AReed Deep For 7]

antoine winfield used to lead us in tackles too. you never want your secondary leading the team in tackles. just like you wouldn't want fitzgibbons to lead the team in rushing

[DreReed83]

I could care less about tackles for a safety. How many game altering plays has he made?

INT's? Nonexistant.

Sacks? Nope.

Forced fumbles? Nada.

Fumble recoveries? Zip

Whitners 5 passed defensed? Ranked at least 114 in the NFL. Jon Beason also has 5 pass defense.

 

But thank god he has over 100 meaningless tackles. How many of these were tackles for loss?

Edited December 3, 2010 by DreReed83

[K-9]

If one of your LBs isn't leading your team in tackles something really sucks about them as a group. If one of your LBs is NOT leading your team in tackles, you better hope it's one of your safeties then. There's a reason they call them safeties. I'm pretty sure if you look at the tackle statistics around the league, you'll most likely see an LB leading them. If not, a safety.

 

It would be far worse for the Bills if DW wasn't leading the team in tackles in the absence of one of their LBs.

 

Our LBs flat out suck.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

I could care less about tackles for a safety. How many game altering plays has he made?

INT's? Nonexistant.

Sacks? Nope.

Forced fumbles? Nada.

Fumble recoveries? Zip

Whitners 5 passed defensed? Ranked at least 114 in the NFL. Jon Beason also has 5 pass defense.

 

But thank god he has over 100 meaningless tackles. How many of these were tackles for loss?

Prior to this year, Whitner averaged 1 INT and 3 PDs a season. That's scant production.

 

This year, he has 5 PDs and 0 INTs (3 PDs came against Shaun Hill of the Lions).

[K-9]

Prior to this year, Whitner averaged 1 INT and 3 PDs a season. That's scant production.

 

This year, he has 5 PDs and 0 INTs (3 PDs came against Shaun Hill of the Lions).

 

I hear what you're saying about the stats suggesting DW's non-productivity. Statistically, there is no denying it.

 

But I caution against citing stats in a vacuum. When I look back at the great strong safeties and even guys like Troy Polamalu today, I am struck by the fact that they usually played/play on defenses that were/are VERY good against the run and typically played on teams that enjoyed leads most of the time which allowed/allow these defenses to dictate. Opposing Os had/have to pass far more often as a result and the great safeties had far more opportunities for breakups, INTs, etc.

 

This is in no way defending DW. While I personally think he's better than average and has a lot of versatility, he certainly screws the pooch when he does get a rare opportunity to make a game-changing play.

 

I would just like to see him on a D with a strong front seven that isn't dominated in the run game and that forces teams into unmanageable down/distance situations. I'd like to see him play with a lead more often than not. Especially late in games. I'd like to see him on a team where a LB is the leading tackler and our secondary isn't beat up having to take on OLmen and make so many tackles during the course of the game.

 

The great safeties have those luxuries far more often than not. Before DW can be great, our defense needs to upgrade, especially at LB and DE. In the meantime we could do a lot worse than having Whitner as our starter.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Leonard Smith and Henry Jones were both SS for the Bils who were apparently good enough to hold the starting job for years, and they had some 0-INT seasons...

 

Whitner is solid, one of the best takclers on the team and durable too. He is always getting to the ball. More improvment to the pass rush and OLB's in particular and turnovers will increase for the whole D, DW included.

 

Even the great Troy P had a season, 2007, with 0 INTs (only 11 starts but true none the less)

[Sisyphean Bills]

I hear what you're saying about the stats suggesting DW's non-productivity. Statistically, there is no denying it.

 

But I caution against citing stats in a vacuum. When I look back at the great strong safeties and even guys like Troy Polamalu today, I am struck by the fact that they usually played/play on defenses that were/are VERY good against the run and typically played on teams that enjoyed leads most of the time which allowed/allow these defenses to dictate. Opposing Os had/have to pass far more often as a result and the great safeties had far more opportunities for breakups, INTs, etc.

 

This is in no way defending DW. While I personally think he's better than average and has a lot of versatility, he certainly screws the pooch when he does get a rare opportunity to make a game-changing play.

 

I would just like to see him on a D with a strong front seven that isn't dominated in the run game and that forces teams into unmanageable down/distance situations. I'd like to see him play with a lead more often than not. Especially late in games. I'd like to see him on a team where a LB is the leading tackler and our secondary isn't beat up having to take on OLmen and make so many tackles during the course of the game.

 

The great safeties have those luxuries far more often than not. Before DW can be great, our defense needs to upgrade, especially at LB and DE. In the meantime we could do a lot worse than having Whitner as our starter.

 

GO BILLS!!!

First, I wasn't saying "Whitner is garbage" (and I don't think you thought I did). He's an OK player and he's making a lot of tackles on a team with a sieve as a defensive front. (I don't think he is very good in pass defense and that is not just a "stats in a vacuum" comment -- it is from watching him play and seeing opponents target him.)

 

Second, you raise good, fair points. They may go somewhat as to why the Bills had him overvalued in the draft. At OSU, he played on a defense with some excellent college players all around him. The flip side of that though is that great players make those around them great. Troy Polamalu isn't merely the recipient of Fate's good fortune. He's not just another uniform out there that happens to accidentally be in the right place at the right time by cosmic coincidences. His instincts, awareness, and knowledge of the game allow him to be a game changer, which allows other people on his defense to also make plays. The Steelers defense is utterly different with him than without him. With Whitner, the Bills have moved him around and he has missed time and some fans even say the secondary play improves when Wilson or Scott were on the field. For the Bills to get better, they need to add game changers to their roster and not just keep decent players that might make some great plays if they were surrounded by All-Pros.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

antoine winfield used to lead us in tackles too. you never want your secondary leading the team in tackles. just like you wouldn't want fitzgibbons to lead the team in rushing

It's Fitzgerald. You don't want Fitzgerald leading your team in rushing.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Leonard Smith and Henry Jones were both SS for the Bils who were apparently good enough to hold the starting job for years, and they had some 0-INT seasons...

 

Even the great Troy P had a season, 2007, with 0 INTs (only 11 starts but true none the less)

All too true. Of course, some of that is that the Bills have no pass rush and their run defense is the worst in the NFL. Still, I doubt any of the players you mentioned in your post would've called their 0 INT season their "Career Year". Well, maybe, if it was a contract year.

[DreReed83]

Prior to this year, Whitner averaged 1 INT and 3 PDs a season. That's scant production.

 

This year, he has 5 PDs and 0 INTs (3 PDs came against Shaun Hill of the Lions).

 

A whopping 1 INT and 3 PDs a season. For a top 10 pick? I can't believe people are still defending this guy. lol. so so sooo sad.

 

Leonard Smith and Henry Jones were both SS for the Bils who were apparently good enough to hold the starting job for years, and they had some 0-INT seasons...

 

Whitner is solid, one of the best takclers on the team and durable too. He is always getting to the ball. More improvment to the pass rush and OLB's in particular and turnovers will increase for the whole D, DW included.

 

Even the great Troy P had a season, 2007, with 0 INTs (only 11 starts but true none the less)

 

You cannot be putting Polamalu in this conversation.

 

In 2009, when Polamalu only played 5 games, he got 3 INTs and 7 pass defensed. Polamalu 3 INTs in 5 games. Whitner 4 INTs in 5 years !!!! And don't forget to mention MORE pass defensed in 5 games, than Whitners had all of 2010. Not to mention that Polamalu makes a lot of tackles at the line of scrimmage or behind the line. Child please....

Edited December 3, 2010 by DreReed83

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Our top 10 pick a few yrs ago as a sfety has 0 interception? This playmaking ability is a career year?

[K-9]

Our top 10 pick a few yrs ago as a sfety has 0 interception? This playmaking ability is a career year?

 

The bigger concern should be why our FS has zero INTs. FSs SHOULD get more INTs. I wonder why neither of our safeties has one. Hell, I wonder why our entire DBackfield only have TWO for year. Actually, I don't really wonder about it; the answer is right up front for everyone to see.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Dawgg]

Prior to this year, Whitner averaged 1 INT and 3 PDs a season. That's scant production.

... which is exactly why the Bills are trying to extend this clown.

 

They should take those funds and hand it to two truly deserving players, Stevie Johnson early and Kyle Williams and extend them early with team-friendly contracts.

 

But, alas, they won't.

[akm0404]

LOL Bills fans. You have a guy that is among the league leaders in SOMETHING and you are so eager to run him out of town.

 

Meanwhile, there are at least a half dozen players on defense that wouldn't DREAM of sniffing the field on a decent team.

 

Way to get to the root of our problems.

 

We now return you to the parade of haters.

[CardinalScotts]

On average, our D is on the field 33:42 per game which gives them about a 20% increased exposure to the opposition's O.

How many more hits could a MLB player get with 20% more at bats? It's not insignificant.

 

this cuts both ways....on the field longer your going to tire out give up more yards and rank low.

He's had a good year so far not great but pretty good. Your safety isn't going to prevent the running attack the way the Bills LB's and defensive line have given it up

 

Exactly right. Preferably a player who does not

 

(a) drop sure interceptions

 

-or-

 

(b) jump up 4 feet in the air on a blitz instead of sacking the QB.

 

 

part b he can jump in the air as long as it's third down and he bats it down. It was a stop they punted....many many many times i've seen us while trying to sack the qb he dumps the pass off to a RB and he goes 15-20 yards an a first down. I'll take the stop

[Dawgg]

this cuts both ways....on the field longer your going to tire out give up more yards and rank low.

He's had a good year so far not great but pretty good. Your safety isn't going to prevent the running attack the way the Bills LB's and defensive line have given it up

 

 

 

 

part b he can jump in the air as long as it's third down and he bats it down. It was a stop they punted....many many many times i've seen us while trying to sack the qb he dumps the pass off to a RB and he goes 15-20 yards an a first down. I'll take the stop

His responsibility on the blitz is to get there on time and nail the QB. Covering the RB is usually the responsibility of a linebacker.

 

Even Chan stated after the game that Donte needs to learn not to jump in that situation. But it's typical Donte... when a play can potentially be made, he comes up small.