Being a Black QB; It Must be Tough

[Mr. WEO]

My perception is, meh. I don't see racism being an issue like it was back in, say, Jim Brown's day or anything. Looking at the make-up of the league, and how alot of NFL defenses are now entirely black, IMO, proves that any stigma is long gone and the only thing that matters is win now. Winning is more important than any racist ideas.

 

As far as black QB's go, with the exception of Warren Moon I've never like them. Like the Trent Edwards check down, there always seems to be a tendency to run before pass if the first option is not available. I think Randal Cunningham ruined it for me. Then Vick,...forget about it. Warren Moon was a classy, classy QB that has never gotten the proper reverence for his abilities as a passing QB IMO.

 

Moon never got "proper reverence for his abilities as a passing QB"?? You mean other than being elected to the NFL HOF--only because of crazy passing yards/attempts? It certainly wasn't for all those championships he won.

 

You must not realize that Cunningham threw for 30,000 yards over his career. He and Moon were both sub 60% passers and both had the same career rating.

[The Dean]

 

Which coach was bad for MV?

 

 

Mora, without a doubt. But I would expand that by saying ANY coach that let him slack, be the first to leave practice, get away with not studying film, etc, did him a disservice. He also did himself a disservice, to be sure.

 

Reeves may have been a good HC (and a good coach for QBs) but he was at the end of his run in ATL. I don't really know how he handled Vick, so I will let him off the hook.

 

Neither Wade nor Mora is known to be a particularly good nurturer of QBs, nor offensive masterminds, as far as I know. Of course Wade wasn't there long, so it's hard to give him too much of the blame. So we are back to Mora.

 

Don't think for one second by saying Vick had poor coaching I am excusing Vick for his poor work ethic and crappy attitude. I'm not. Ultimately we are responsible for our own actions.

 

But just because he took the team to the playoffs, let's not confuse little Mora with a "good coach".

 

 

"Love my (NFL black QB's), where's my bieches?"

 

 

Damn you're an idiot.

 

My perception is, meh. I don't see racism being an issue like it was back in, say, Jim Brown's day or anything. Looking at the make-up of the league, and how alot of NFL defenses are now entirely black, IMO, proves that any stigma is long gone and the only thing that matters is win now. Winning is more important than any racist ideas.

 

As far as black QB's go, with the exception of Warren Moon I've never like them.

 

Edited November 26, 2010 by The Dean

[bbb]

Really Dean? Do you even know who his coach in Atlanta was? The year they went to the Super Bowl his coach was Dan Reeves. I think he did a heck of a coaching job getting Vick up to the point where they could beat GB in GB in the playoffs in the cold and then get to the Super Bowl. Reaves was coach from 1998 to 2003. Then Wade took over and then Jim Mora Jr in 2004 and 2005. The Falcons went to the NFC Championship in 2004.

 

Which coach was bad for MV?

 

Michael Vick went to the Super Bowl? What year was that?

[Chilly]

I was sure this article was going to be written by Jason Whitlock.

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

Damn you're an idiot.

 

 

 

Pointing out the absurdity of this.

 

Anyway--high praise coming form "the Dean"! Thanks!

[bbb]

I was sure this article was going to be written by Jason Whitlock.

 

I don't get it. I talked about this earlier. I usually find Whitlock taking a story like this and saying it's not about race.

[Chilly]

I don't get it. I talked about this earlier. I usually find Whitlock taking a story like this and saying it's not about race.

 

If there's one writer who is highly visible and consistently writes about race - no matter what his message is - it's Whitlock. If it wasn't for him, I would hardly *ever* see anything about a race issue.

[Ramius]

If there's one writer who is highly visible and consistently writes about race - no matter what his message is - it's Whitlock. If it wasn't for him, I would hardly *ever* see anything about a race issue.

 

But Whitlock never takes this side of the race issues. His usual message is that blacks need to take care of their own issues and stop blaming whites for everything.

[bbb]

But Whitlock never takes this side of the race issues. His usual message is that blacks need to take care of their own issues and stop blaming whites for everything.

 

Exactly! Earlier on this thread, somebody called Jamele Hill is Jason Whitlock with titties, and somebody else said something similar. I couldn't disagree more.

 

Jamele Hill always writes like this, just like Rod Watson in the News does. Jason Whitlock is not in lockstep with Jesse Jackson, etc. (He can't stand them).

[flmike]

Since there are fewer of them, a higher percentage of the total get benched or cut. Do a simple algebra equation to get the numbers of white and black quarterbacks to equal out and I'll bet fewer black QBs are benched at the end. Sure we have racism in this country, but not that much in sports where winning is more important.

[Red]

Moon never got "proper reverence for his abilities as a passing QB"?? You mean other than being elected to the NFL HOF--only because of crazy passing yards/attempts? It certainly wasn't for all those championships he won.

 

You must not realize that Cunningham threw for 30,000 yards over his career. He and Moon were both sub 60% passers and both had the same career rating.

 

You are right on the HOF thing. My reference is to when people talk about stellar QB's on the national stage, Moon is never mentioned. You hear the traditional Montana, Marino thing (hate Marino), but Moon is never mentioned. Heck, I think Kelly was every much as good as Marino. Kelly is hardly ever mentioned, either.

 

What I mean is that, IMO, a QB is more of a passer than a runner. Warren Moon was an amazing pocket passer who rarely scrambled. He was a solid leader, and always a threat when QB'ing the other team. BECAUSE of his arm and intelligence.

 

Cunningham, to me, seemed much too indecisive...especially early in his career. He had to be coached not to run and flee the pocket. It wasn't until he got to Minnesota that he finally settled down and threw more than ran- but his legs probably had acquired some age to them as well, making him a less effective runner as in his earlier days.

 

To me, I want my QB to be a passer first. And second. And third. There is nothing wrong with keeping a play alive with his feet, but the QB does more damage with his arm. Like Big Ben. You could argue that he does alot of damage with his motorcycle, but I digress. Watching Ben play, he has the right kind of innate escapability where he can bounce and step around the pocket, avoiding sacks, and still stretches the play out long enough to make it a success. In his early days, Cunningham ran when his options were not available. But then again, I love Steve Young because of his play-making diversity and toughness. I guess I just never liked Cunningham or Vick. I just see them as players at the QB position who are apt to give up on a play too soon to run it themselves than let their teammates help in the offense.

 

I don't know. This is a stupid Post to begin with.

[iinii]

Since there are fewer of them, a higher percentage of the total get benched or cut. Do a simple algebra equation to get the numbers of white and black quarterbacks to equal out and I'll bet fewer black QBs are benched at the end. Sure we have racism in this country, but not that much in sports where winning is more important.

why is that? why do we let the cream rise to the top in sports but in the "real" world we have boxes and quotas?

[bbb]

I love Steve Young because of his play-making diversity and toughness. I guess I just never liked Cunningham or Vick. I just see them as players at the QB position who are apt to give up on a play too soon to run it themselves than let their teammates help in the offense.

 

I don't know. This is a stupid Post to begin with.

 

How is Young's running ability any different - because he's white? I think a QB that can scramble is such a weapon - whether it's Young, Elway, Vick, Young or Cunningham.

 

A stupid post? Maybe you should email Ms. Hill.

[sleaky72]

Lol is this Stormfront or Twobillsdrive?

 

Some of you bigots are so disgusting!!!

 

Funny thing is that some of you bigots will still go to church on Sunday and wonder why your lives are still pathetic!

[jumbalaya]

I believe that Andy Reid benched Kolb in favor of Vick because Andy has an inbred hatred of dogs.

[Chilly]

But Whitlock never takes this side of the race issues. His usual message is that blacks need to take care of their own issues and stop blaming whites for everything.

 

 

Exactly! Earlier on this thread, somebody called Jamele Hill is Jason Whitlock with titties, and somebody else said something similar. I couldn't disagree more.

 

Jamele Hill always writes like this, just like Rod Watson in the News does. Jason Whitlock is not in lockstep with Jesse Jackson, etc. (He can't stand them).

 

Which has nothing to do with my point that Whitlock is the only visible writer that I ever see writing about race. I've never even heard of Jamele Hill or Rod Watson. And I certainly would have never seen this article if it wasn't posted on this forum.

 

Whitlock's giving these people creditability and visibility when he writes about it.

Edited November 26, 2010 by BlueFire

[Mr. WEO]

You are right on the HOF thing. My reference is to when people talk about stellar QB's on the national stage, Moon is never mentioned. You hear the traditional Montana, Marino thing (hate Marino), but Moon is never mentioned. Heck, I think Kelly was every much as good as Marino. Kelly is hardly ever mentioned, either.

 

What I mean is that, IMO, a QB is more of a passer than a runner. Warren Moon was an amazing pocket passer who rarely scrambled. He was a solid leader, and always a threat when QB'ing the other team. BECAUSE of his arm and intelligence.

 

Cunningham, to me, seemed much too indecisive...especially early in his career. He had to be coached not to run and flee the pocket. It wasn't until he got to Minnesota that he finally settled down and threw more than ran- but his legs probably had acquired some age to them as well, making him a less effective runner as in his earlier days.

 

To me, I want my QB to be a passer first. And second. And third. There is nothing wrong with keeping a play alive with his feet, but the QB does more damage with his arm. Like Big Ben. You could argue that he does alot of damage with his motorcycle, but I digress. Watching Ben play, he has the right kind of innate escapability where he can bounce and step around the pocket, avoiding sacks, and still stretches the play out long enough to make it a success. In his early days, Cunningham ran when his options were not available. But then again, I love Steve Young because of his play-making diversity and toughness. I guess I just never liked Cunningham or Vick. I just see them as players at the QB position who are apt to give up on a play too soon to run it themselves than let their teammates help in the offense.

 

I don't know. This is a stupid Post to begin with.

 

 

Cunnungham always through more than he ran, obviously. But "early in his career" in Philly, his BEST passing years were also his BEST running years, so you're wrong on both accounts. I would argue that Cunningham was far more "underrated", or whatever, than Moon.

 

It would clearly surprise you to hear that Young was well-known as a running QB for most of his career at SF. His numbers over his career are 33,000 yards passing to 4200 yards rushing. Compare that to Cunnuinhams's 30,000 and 4900 and tell me again what your point is.

 

Oh, that's right---you don't like the black QBs.

[sleaky72]

Cunnungham always through more than he ran, obviously. But "early in his career" in Philly, his BEST passing years were also his BEST running years, so you're wrong on both accounts. I would argue that Cunningham was far more "underrated", or whatever, than Moon.

 

It would clearly surprise you to hear that Young was well-known as a running QB for most of his career at SF. His numbers over his career are 33,000 yards passing to 4200 yards rushing. Compare that to Cunnuinhams's 30,000 and 4900 and tell me again what your point is.

 

Oh, that's right---you don't like the black QBs.

 

 

Wow Pure Ownage!!!

[bbb]

Which has nothing to do with my point that Whitlock is the only visible writer that I ever see writing about race. I've never even heard of Jamele Hill or Rod Watson. And I certainly would have never seen this article if it wasn't posted on this forum.

 

Whitlock's giving these people creditability and visibility when he writes about it.

 

Yeah, your point is not the same as the people who said she is Whitlock with titties, etc. However, I don't think Whitlock is the only one writing about race. I see it all over. I assume you don't live in Buffalo or read the News, or else you would see Watson a few times a week.

[Hplarrm]

My perception is, meh. I don't see racism being an issue like it was back in, say, Jim Brown's day or anything. Looking at the make-up of the league, and how alot of NFL defenses are now entirely black, IMO, proves that any stigma is long gone and the only thing that matters is win now. Winning is more important than any racist ideas.

Is racism the issue that it used to be?

 

Thankfully the answer is completely without a doubt no its not for both the NFL and society as a whole. Thanks to the leadership of Lincoln and the amazing sacrifices of thousands of people, the legalized racism of slavery is over. However, though this improvement is undeniably true, one would have to be flat out stupid to not understand that just because slavery ended, racism in forms such as the Jim Crow laws did not end.

 

Likewise, thanks to the leadership of MLK and the amazing sacrifices of thousands of people, legalized institutions like Jim Crow or miscengation laws have ended. However, though this improvement is undeniably true, one would have to be flat out stupid to not understand that just because Jim Crow or other actions have ended, racism in forms such as the individual acts of discrimination, prejudice or stupidity did not end.

 

Yhe NFL is a microcosm and part of society. Again it would be flat out stupid to expect that racism in the NFL did not or in fact does exist.

 

The great thing about the NFL is that to the extent it is a meritocracy (to some extent but not completely) racism often tends to be ended because though it gets maintained by the good ol boys network its practice can make your team not as good as the opponents. Again its not perfect but it is getting better.

 

The Rooney Rule has been such a success as it forces NFL teams not to meet some quota of hiring which may not have anything to do with performance, but instead forces the good ol boy network (and believe me it does need force by good people)to give people a real chance and allows the competition of the marketplace where Indy realizes that Peyton Manning cannot get the job done on his own but Tony Dungy adds a skillset which put them over the top. Likewise Pitts needed to replace Cowher and the proof is in the pudding that men like Tomlin were again proof in the pudding that a man of A-A descent could get the job done (I mean there were others around who gladly would have taken the job such as a Dick Jauron and though they were nice guys Tomlin was the man_.

 

Its a mistake to claim the problem has not gotten much better. However it is also a sign of a small mind to not understand that simply because things have gotten better that does not mean they are completely solved and racism can be ignored.