Receiver Depth Chart

[Poznasty51]

Now that training camp is over and 75% of the preseason, the conversation at receiver is even more interesting. For purposes of rank, I will put Stevie ahead of Roscoe just because he plays on the outside opposite Lee. I personally think roscoe will put up bigger numbers.

 

1 - Lee

2 - Stevie

3- Roscoe

4 - David Nelson

5- Chad Jackson

6 - James Hardy

7 - Roosevelt

8 - Donald Jones

 

5-8 were tough. How would you rank them?

[The Dean]

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/118193-receiver-depth-chart/

[wardigital]

If based solely on performance in Camp and pre-season, I'd flip Nelson and Stevie on your list. Stevie has earned his shot but Nelson has been impressive. That said, here is my prediction:

 

1 - Evans

2 - S. Johnson

3 - Roscoe

4 - D. Nelson

5 - Chad Jackson

6 - Naaman Roosevelt

7 - James Hardy

8 - Donald Jones

 

Hardy has gotten a lot of leeway because of his draft position, but he's probably been the worst receiver we've had all camp. Worse than Jones even. I can see him making the team over Naaman based simply on his pedigree, but in my opinion he should be cut.

[Poznasty51]

Well, I have to think they like Hardy because of his size and speed. Maybe they think he has more potential, I do think he has a ton of potential. He really hasn't had a lot of time to develop. I am not saying the coaching staff can develop him, but they have done a good job with Maybin so far, and a lot of people on these boards labeled him a bust. Just a hunch with Hardy though.

[The Dean]

If based solely on performance in Camp and pre-season, I'd flip Nelson and Stevie on your list. Stevie has earned his shot but Nelson has been impressive. That said, here is my prediction:

 

1 - Evans

2 - S. Johnson

3 - Roscoe

4 - D. Nelson

5 - Chad Jackson

6 - Naaman Roosevelt

7 - James Hardy

8 - Donald Jones

 

Hardy has gotten a lot of leeway because of his draft position, but he's probably been the worst receiver we've had all camp. Worse than Jones even. I can see him making the team over Naaman based simply on his pedigree, but in my opinion he should be cut.

 

 

Did you forget to reorder your list?

[Meark]

1 - Evans

2 - S. Johnson

3 - Roscoe

4 - D. Nelson

5 - Donald Jones

6 - Naaman Roosevelt

7 - Chad Jackson

8 - James Hardy

 

I'd cut Hardy.. he's the skinniest receiver I've seen so its no wonder the guy is always getting hurt. I'd even consider making Nelson the 2nd receiver as I've seen him make way more plays than Johnson. Roscoe has looked solid and will be awesome in the slot. I like what both Roosevelt and Jones have brought to the table. Not sold on Chad Jackson either.

[eball]

Switch #2 and #4.

[Hplarrm]

My sports fantasy is that IMHO the Bills simply do not have a demonstrated threat at #2 WR (does anyone out there want to make a case beyond their own sports fantasies that Jackson is a demonstrated threat, the simple fact he regressed in virtually all measures of demonstrated performance in his second year, something a top quality receiver and a clear starter does not do even when playing with two better WRs. If Jackson is a true quality starter he would have simply demanded that he be thrown to in the games he appeared in because he defeated the third (and usually fourth best CBs he faced as Evans and TO drew dc attention).

 

At any rate, what I wish for each night at bedtime is that in closed practices the Bills are running their O with Spiller split out wide at #2WR.

 

Spiller has no training as a wideout (but has clear demonstrated skills as an RB receiver in motion) but if he can practiced up to credibly run the wideout routes, this poses a huge quandary for the opposing DC

 

1. The obvious solution which has worked somewhat well before (such as when Peerless was the #2) is that you dt Evans reducing (but not completely neutralizing because he is that fast and that good)his impact. If the Bills Nonffense stupidly uses Peerless as a possession receiver, you say thank you very much and cover his 1 on 1 and load the rest of the D in the box to mess up the ground game. However, if Spiller even lines up at #2, the dc has to think seriously about whether he wants to single cover Spiller because if he gets the ball in space and simply has to make one player miss and then he is off to the house, he has to think about dting both Evans and Spiller out wide. This configuration then leaves 7 defenders spread wide in the box taking on Jackson and Lynch. Its way cool.

 

2. Lets say the other side has Revis or some equivalent and that they are actually able to single Evans or Spiller. The Gailey counter then becomes using three wide and bring Parrish out in our base O. The dc then has to decide not simply whether to risk singling Evans or Spiller, but at best if he dts one of them he now has his 4th best best CB (or 5th best if he decides to double both WRs) covering Parrish on his lonesome. Not only does the passing game feast on this feeble attempt at man coverage with dts, but now Jackson or Lynch (one of them definitely defense with sits if one is going three wide) are facing a spread defense with five of the 1 defenders having their primary task be pass coverage.

 

If the Bills go with a 3 wide formation (and in particular if you line Spiller up out in space already -a mere pump fake and he goes long forces the coverage to back off and give him space rather than covering him tight or jumping the route)really forces the dc to employ a zone D.

 

If this is the case not only is running game far more effective facing the zone (and in great cases a nickel or even a dime D so that Jax/Lynch are facing 180 lb. DBs rather than 230 lb. LBs. Also the pass blocking becomes much simpler for our young and marginal talent OL as the zone takes away 1 or 2 blitz options for them to deal with.

 

3. The amusing thing to me about this argument is that the Bills are playing this just right if this is what they decide to do. If the first thought that the opposing DC gives to covering Spiller out wide is when the teams line up, we may be looking at a quick seven (or even if Edwards misthrows it or Spiller drops it the D plan still goes out the window out of fear). The Bills should not even hint that they plan to do more than sometimes use of Spiller in motion and not even have him on the depth chart at WR (unless you are not going to do this so you throw him on the depth chart at deep reserve WR simply to force opposing DCs to prepare for this match-up problem.

 

It may turn out that the injuries to Jax and Lynch will prove to be great bonuses for us as it gave Spiller a bunch of reps and he did so well at them that opposing DCs will be forced to respect him immediately if he lines up wide (could you imagine if the Bills send all the motion right and then TE throws the ball to Spiller who has taken a step back on the left. Spiller then turns and has to beat one guy hustling towards him and then its off to the races.

 

All I want for Xmad (actually for Thanksgiving, Halloween, and in fact for Labor Day is to have Spiller line up at the current vacuum we have at #2 WR!

Now that training camp is over and 75% of the preseason, the conversation at receiver is even more interesting. For purposes of rank, I will put Stevie ahead of Roscoe just because he plays on the outside opposite Lee. I personally think roscoe will put up bigger numbers.

 

1 - Lee

2 - Stevie

3- Roscoe

4 - David Nelson

5- Chad Jackson

6 - James Hardy

7 - Roosevelt

8 - Donald Jones

 

5-8 were tough. How would you rank them?

[BillnutinHouston]

My sports fantasy is that IMHO the Bills simply do not have a demonstrated threat at #2 WR (does anyone out there want to make a case beyond their own sports fantasies that Jackson is a demonstrated threat, the simple fact he regressed in virtually all measures of demonstrated performance in his second year, something a top quality receiver and a clear starter does not do even when playing with two better WRs. If Jackson is a true quality starter he would have simply demanded that he be thrown to in the games he appeared in because he defeated the third (and usually fourth best CBs he faced as Evans and TO drew dc attention).

 

At any rate, what I wish for each night at bedtime is that in closed practices the Bills are running their O with Spiller split out wide at #2WR.

 

Spiller has no training as a wideout (but has clear demonstrated skills as an RB receiver in motion) but if he can practiced up to credibly run the wideout routes, this poses a huge quandary for the opposing DC

 

1. The obvious solution which has worked somewhat well before (such as when Peerless was the #2) is that you dt Evans reducing (but not completely neutralizing because he is that fast and that good)his impact. If the Bills Nonffense stupidly uses Peerless as a possession receiver, you say thank you very much and cover his 1 on 1 and load the rest of the D in the box to mess up the ground game. However, if Spiller even lines up at #2, the dc has to think seriously about whether he wants to single cover Spiller because if he gets the ball in space and simply has to make one player miss and then he is off to the house, he has to think about dting both Evans and Spiller out wide. This configuration then leaves 7 defenders spread wide in the box taking on Jackson and Lynch. Its way cool.

 

2. Lets say the other side has Revis or some equivalent and that they are actually able to single Evans or Spiller. The Gailey counter then becomes using three wide and bring Parrish out in our base O. The dc then has to decide not simply whether to risk singling Evans or Spiller, but at best if he dts one of them he now has his 4th best best CB (or 5th best if he decides to double both WRs) covering Parrish on his lonesome. Not only does the passing game feast on this feeble attempt at man coverage with dts, but now Jackson or Lynch (one of them definitely defense with sits if one is going three wide) are facing a spread defense with five of the 1 defenders having their primary task be pass coverage.

 

If the Bills go with a 3 wide formation (and in particular if you line Spiller up out in space already -a mere pump fake and he goes long forces the coverage to back off and give him space rather than covering him tight or jumping the route)really forces the dc to employ a zone D.

 

If this is the case not only is running game far more effective facing the zone (and in great cases a nickel or even a dime D so that Jax/Lynch are facing 180 lb. DBs rather than 230 lb. LBs. Also the pass blocking becomes much simpler for our young and marginal talent OL as the zone takes away 1 or 2 blitz options for them to deal with.

 

3. The amusing thing to me about this argument is that the Bills are playing this just right if this is what they decide to do. If the first thought that the opposing DC gives to covering Spiller out wide is when the teams line up, we may be looking at a quick seven (or even if Edwards misthrows it or Spiller drops it the D plan still goes out the window out of fear). The Bills should not even hint that they plan to do more than sometimes use of Spiller in motion and not even have him on the depth chart at WR (unless you are not going to do this so you throw him on the depth chart at deep reserve WR simply to force opposing DCs to prepare for this match-up problem.

 

It may turn out that the injuries to Jax and Lynch will prove to be great bonuses for us as it gave Spiller a bunch of reps and he did so well at them that opposing DCs will be forced to respect him immediately if he lines up wide (could you imagine if the Bills send all the motion right and then TE throws the ball to Spiller who has taken a step back on the left. Spiller then turns and has to beat one guy hustling towards him and then its off to the races.

 

All I want for Xmad (actually for Thanksgiving, Halloween, and in fact for Labor Day is to have Spiller line up at the current vacuum we have at #2 WR!

 

I agree. And I wouldn't put it past Chan to go in this direction.

[Saint Doug]

I say Nelson starts over Steve Johnson, who over the last 3 years has done absolutely nothing to earn a starting job. True, neither has Nelson, but he's looking very promising right now. Give him a shot.

[timba]

1 - Evans

2 - Parrish (From the slot in 3 wide sets)

3 - Nelson

4 - Johnson

5 - Jackson

6 - Roosevelt

7 - Jones

8 - Hardy

[tbonestake]

Well, I have to think they like Hardy because of his size and speed. Maybe they think he has more potential, I do think he has a ton of potential. He really hasn't had a lot of time to develop. I am not saying the coaching staff can develop him, but they have done a good job with Maybin so far, and a lot of people on these boards labeled him a bust. Just a hunch with Hardy though.

 

 

What speed? The guy is like a snail on valium!!!

 

I say Nelson starts over Steve Johnson, who over the last 3 years has done absolutely nothing to earn a starting job. True, neither has Nelson, but he's looking very promising right now. Give him a shot.

 

 

Were you aware that Jauron and those idiots didn't play Steve Johnsonhis rookie year and that every opportunity he got, he made plays? Were you also aware that last year we signed a guy named Terrell Owens and he got a ton of balls thrown his way in a Pop Warner offense? We also had Josh Reed who carved a little niche and did jack squat in the 3rd receiver spot. Steve Johnson is getting an opportunity to play FINALLY!!! Name something this preseason that he has done wrong besides the ball in the Skins game that he dropped and there was no Pass INT. He is the 2nd receiver. He runs a lot of distraction. Go back to the Colts game. If he doesn't run a precise route, the saftey doesn't bite and Lee Evans isn't WIDE OPEN!!!

 

Nelson is showing a ton of talent and potential and is a solid option as a 4th receiver. He cathces EVERYTHNIG that comes his way and matched up against a Safety, Nickel CB, or a LB, I'll take Nelson everytime. Maybe he will end up as the 2nd but he should not start there. Steve Johnson will be solid. Just wait to see it now that he will actually be on the field.

 

Roosevelt for the Roster!!! SJCI BABY!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

Were you aware that Jauron and those idiots didn't play Steve Johnsonhis rookie year and that every opportunity he got, he made plays? Were you also aware that last year we signed a guy named Terrell Owens and he got a ton of balls thrown his way in a Pop Warner offense? We also had Josh Reed who carved a little niche and did jack squat in the 3rd receiver spot. Steve Johnson is getting an opportunity to play FINALLY!!! Name something this preseason that he has done wrong besides the ball in the Skins game that he dropped and there was no Pass INT. He is the 2nd receiver. He runs a lot of distraction. Go back to the Colts game. If he doesn't run a precise route, the saftey doesn't bite and Lee Evans isn't WIDE OPEN!!!

Johnson has done next to nothing this preseason. The one good play he made against the Bengals NO ONE covered him, and it wasn't because of anything he did. They just didn't cover him with anyone. He then, to his credit, charged up field and made it a first down after he caught a two yard pass with no one within five yards of him. It was a nice 10 yard run. He also caught another 4 yard pass I think. And he totally blew the first large loss that Spiller had, as his whiffed completely and his guy was responsible for the 7 yard loss.

 

His best play the entire pre-season was a common drag route where the safety came running up to cover him. If you watch the replay, it wasn't all that special of a route or great cut, he simply did his job well and ran across the field. He also dropped a bomb right in his hands against the Skins, although there was a guy on him. Still, two hands on the ball you need to make the play.

 

Made the most out of every opportunity? He has 12 catches in 16 games for under 10 yards a catch. He has some skills but if we are talking about actual production, including pre-season where most of Johnson's "making the most" has occurred, both David Nelson and maybe even Namaan Roosevelt have looked as good. I have nothing against SJ at all, but I would start Nelson right now.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[JPS]

It has to be

1. Evans

2. Stevie J.

3. Parrish

4. Jackson

5. Hardy

 

Jones, Nelson and Roosevelt have looked good, but do they have what it takes to go against a real NFL defense this year? I say 2 out of 3 go on the practice squad. The only surprise to me is if they cut bait on Hardy. If they do that, it comes down to who adds more to the team. Special teams ability and his speed advantage put Jones over Roosevelt for me. Nelson stays on the pratice squad.

 

The only way Nelson makes the final roster is if they cut Chad Jackson AND James Hardy. It will be the most interesting position in the final cuts.

[Cugalabanza]

The related question is how many WR's do you think they keep. Maybe not as many as in past years. I think we'll keep 4 RB's this year plus 1 FB. So there might not be as much room on the roster at WR. Possibly just 5 instead of the 6 or 7 we've seen lately.

[tbonestake]

Johnson has done next to nothing this preseason. The one good play he made against the Bengals NO ONE covered him, and it wasn't because of anything he did. They just didn't cover him with anyone. He then, to his credit, charged up field and made it a first down after he caught a two yard pass with no one within five yards of him. It was a nice 10 yard run. He also caught another 4 yard pass I think. And he totally blew the first large loss that Spiller had, as his whiffed completely and his guy was responsible for the 7 yard loss. His best play the entire pre-season was a common drag route where the safety came running up to cover him. If you watch the replay, it wasn't all that special of a route or great cut, he simply did his job well and ran across the field. He also dropped a bomb right in his hands against the Skins, although there was a guy on him. Still, two hands on the ball you need to make the play. Made the most out of every opportunity? He has 12 catches in 16 games for under 10 yards a catch. He has some skills but if we are talking about actual production, including pre-season where most of Johnson's "making the most" has occurred, both David Nelson and maybe even Namaan Roosevelt have looked as good. I have nothing against SJ at all, but I would start Nelson right now.

You have to get the ball thrown to you to get numbers...It's the chicken or the egg. It's also tough to make catches when you're not on the field. He is there now and when the ball is thrown to him, he makes catches. So you don't feel that Skins play was pass interference? He got two hands on the ball but he had 2 fingers in his eyes 10 seconds before he touched the ball!!! <BR><BR>I'll make you a deal, if Stevie gets the ball thrown his way and he consistently drops the ball, AND/OR our passing game goes to hell as a direct result of him not making plays, AND David Nelson absolutely dominates, make Nelson your 2nd receiver. At this point, why not let Steve Johnson occupy the CB most of the time while having David Nelson work over a Nickel CB, Safety, or LB? It's all about creating a mismatch and we FINALLY have offensive coaches who can exploit the mismatches. Just let it ride for now. Edited August 31, 2010 by tbonestake

[bills in va]

Now that training camp is over and 75% of the preseason, the conversation at receiver is even more interesting. For purposes of rank, I will put Stevie ahead of Roscoe just because he plays on the outside opposite Lee. I personally think roscoe will put up bigger numbers.

 

1 - Lee

2 - Stevie

3- Roscoe

4 - David Nelson

5- Chad Jackson

6 - James Hardy

7 - Roosevelt

8 - Donald Jones

 

5-8 were tough. How would you rank them?

1 Evans

2 Parrish

3 Nelson

 

4 Johnson

5 Jackson

6 Hardy

7 Roosevelt

8 Jones

I would cut Hardy, Jones. Keep the local kid Roosevelt and give hime time to develop. Hardy has had his chance and showed nothing but the ability to stay injured, run bad routes, drop passes. I thought TO taught him something? Oh Yeah he did get a huge earring like TO's!

[Hplarrm]

The related question is how many WR's do you think they keep. Maybe not as many as in past years. I think we'll keep 4 RB's this year plus 1 FB. So there might not be as much room on the roster at WR. Possibly just 5 instead of the 6 or 7 we've seen lately.

Yet another reason why I hope that the thing Gailey is working on in closed practices is using Spiller at WR. At the very least one would think the Bills would need to aggressive and consistent use of Spiller in motion out of the RB slot, but from the armchair of this fan, just line him up on the outside since space is where he does his magic anyway and huge problems are created for the D.

 

One of the Bills problems over the years is that the O is in fact dictated to by the us simply trying to save the skin of the QB or rely on Lynch not only making the first guy miss but also pick up yardage on his own. Using Spiller as a wideout would allow us to dictate that the D go zone (particularly if we make more use of Roscoe in 3 WR sets.

 

The problem we have straight up looking at the personnel and their accomplishments in the past is we have no credible threat at #2 WR. This vastly undercuts Evans effectiveness.

 

Its a problem and though Spiller at #2 WE is a wildeyed solution it is a better bad idea than other options I have heard.

[H2o]

Honestly, I want to know what Steve Johnson has done in camp and Preseason to grab hold of the #2 WR spot? Seriously. Jackson has looked better in the Preseason than SJ and so has Nelson for that matter, but for some odd reason people still think he's deserving. Not me. I'd put Jackson out there and if he can't continue at level he's shown then let the rookie get in there to learn on the fly. Johnson had just as good a shot to WIN that job this offseason as everyone else, but he hasn't done it. My WR depth chart:

 

1. Evans

2. Jackson

3. Parrish

4. Nelson

5. Johnson

6. Hardy

 

Roosvelt to the PS and Jones to the Unemployment line.

[tbonestake]

Honestly, I want to know what Steve Johnson has done in camp and Preseason to grab hold of the #2 WR spot? Seriously. Jackson has looked better in the Preseason than SJ and so has Nelson for that matter, but for some odd reason people still think he's deserving. Not me. I'd put Jackson out there and if he can't continue at level he's shown then let the rookie get in there to learn on the fly. Johnson had just as good a shot to WIN that job this offseason as everyone else, but he hasn't done it. My WR depth chart:

 

1. Evans

2. Jackson

3. Parrish

4. Nelson

5. Johnson

6. Hardy

 

Roosvelt to the PS and Jones to the Unemployment line.

 

Wait wait wait! Tell me what Chad Jackson has done vs 1ST TEAMERS that has been so impressive. He caught 1 ball from Brohm vs. Indy's Grocery Baggers. He dropped a TD vs. Cincy. Did it ever occurto you that they are spreading the ball around a little bit? Do you think that they're going to target our 2nd receiver for 15 looks a game in the PRESEASON? Wait till the year starts and if SJ is consistently bad, put somebody else at #2. He must be pulling one over on the coaching staff because they believe he is a # 2 as well.

Edited August 31, 2010 by tbonestake