Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 I'm doing some research on V-share now. I despise add-ons (particularly toolbars) like this as a rule. But for what it's worth, it seems relatively harmless (from what I know at the moment) and is considered to be one of the better (if not the best) youtube clone applications. Even if it isn't dangerous, I share Fearless Leader's concern that it is a worthless addon that is foisted upon us simply for the revenue it brings to the site/person delivering the toolbar. I need to know this, if anyone has the answer: Did anyone disable the toolbar and then watch the game? If so, it seems like it is useless to this particular streaming process and is being distributed strictly for revenue and to build a base of installed users for future use. I used system restore after the game to remove it because I couldn't find it listed in add/remove programs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 You are absolutely right, and I don't do that anyway (I prefer sat feeds) but if you expect me to feel sorry for the NFL after they blackout a preseason game for not selling out while charging full price for tickets you are barking up the wrrong wrong tree. I don't feel sorry for the NFL, nor do I expect anyone else to. Nor am I judging anyone who watches these feeds. I think until they make available an affordable online package, they'll continue to have to spend a huge amount on resources to patrol for these types of feeds (while also potentially losing customers.) I just thought the myth that this might be somehow legal should be dispelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 V-share wasn't listed there(first thing I did) weird, it was on mine... I'm GUESSING dog used Firefox and In A Gadda used IE when watching the game. I used Firefox and V-Share does not show as an installed program, but rather as an add-on in Firefox. You can go and disable it under Tools, Addons. Or, you can do what I did and simply go to View, Toolbars and disable it there. I think you may need the addon (or program in IE) to view the stream, but I doubt the toolbar is important for anything and I recommend you disable it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 I don't feel sorry for the NFL, nor do I expect anyone else to. Nor am I judging anyone who watches these feeds. I think until they make available an affordable online package, they'll continue to have to spend a huge amount on resources to patrol for these types of feeds (while also potentially losing customers.) I just thought the myth that this might be somehow legal should be dispelled. I can't imagine anyone could trick themselves into thinking watching a online feed of a copyrighted telecast was legal, but I hear what you are saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 (edited) I'm GUESSING dog used Firefox and In A Gadda used IE when watching the game. I used Firefox and V-Share does not show as an installed program, but rather as an add-on in Firefox. You can go and disable it under Tools, Addons. Or, you can do what I did and simply go to View, Toolbars and disable it there. I think you may need the addon (or program in IE) to view the stream, but I doubt the toolbar is important for anything and I recommend you disable it. Yup, Firefox, and I never checked my add ons so makes sense Edited August 30, 2010 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 I can't imagine anyone could trick themselves into thinking watching a online feed of a copyrighted telecast was legal, but I hear what you are saying Watching the online feed is legal, IMO. Supplying the feed is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 (edited) Watching the online feed is legal, IMO. Supplying the feed is not. so some of them(evil doers) even accept donations ahead of time in the event something bad ever happens Edited August 30, 2010 by dog14787 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 (edited) I'm GUESSING dog used Firefox and In A Gadda used IE when watching the game. I used Firefox and V-Share does not show as an installed program, but rather as an add-on in Firefox. You can go and disable it under Tools, Addons. Or, you can do what I did and simply go to View, Toolbars and disable it there. I think you may need the addon (or program in IE) to view the stream, but I doubt the toolbar is important for anything and I recommend you disable it. true story... next time, assuming there is a next time, I'm gonna experiment a bit by disabling it (via IE | Tools | Manage Add-ons) as well as uninstalling during the broadcast to see if it makes any difference. I'm guessing that you're right and it has no effect on enabling/disabling the stream. Edited August 30, 2010 by In-A-Gadda-Levitre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 The NFL would do well to offer some different sorts of packages. There's no way I'm paying $350 to have the right to see EVERY NFL game streamed to my computer for the season. However, I MIGHT consider paying $40 or $50 to see every BILLS game streamed to my computer. Why don't they get a little more flexible in their offerings? It's a rhetorical question as I know their number crunchers have probably thought of that already and didn't find it profitable enough. Well, if they want ME as a customer, that's what they'll need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 true story... next time, assuming there is a next time, I'm gonna experiment a bit by disabling it (via IE | Tools | Manage Add-ons) as well as uninstalling during the broadcast to see if it makes any difference. I'm guessing that you're right and it has no effect on enabling/disabling the stream. To be clear, I think the V-share addon MIGHT be necessary, but I doubt the toolbar does anything useful. It's certainly possible neither is necessary. I already disabled the toolbar and will try disabling the addon before the game to check how things work on Firefox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Watching the online feed is legal, IMO. Supplying the feed is not. In your opinion, is downloading music from a P2P site legal as well? Where is the line drawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjpbills Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 true story... next time, assuming there is a next time, I'm gonna experiment a bit by disabling it (via IE | Tools | Manage Add-ons) as well as uninstalling during the broadcast to see if it makes any difference. I'm guessing that you're right and it has no effect on enabling/disabling the stream. I was watching for the first half without the down load.Sometime later in the game I lost the sound.Thats when I had to download.IT IS EASY TO DISABLE.Don't know if this helps.I think that maybe we should let the poster respond to the post.He may not visit as much as others and I appreciated the effort for what its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 In your opinion, is downloading music from a P2P site legal as well? Where is the line drawn? That's a little different because in a P2P environment you are a supplier as well as a consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 (edited) In your opinion, is downloading music from a P2P site legal as well? Where is the line drawn? The difference is the transient nature of the material. In the P2P, you take possession of illegal material and thus become an infringer, During streaming, you don't, although a case can be made that your buffer "stores" portions of the stream, which is one of the reasons watching a stream may be copyright infringement. Edited August 30, 2010 by Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 That's a little different because in a P2P environment you are a supplier as well as a consumer. That depends on your settings. You can easily choose not to share, or to only share files which are legal to share. The difference is the transient nature of the material. In the P2P, you take possession of illegal material and thus become an infringer, During streaming, you don't, although a case can be made that your buffer "stores" portions of the stream, which is one of the reasons watching a stream may be copyright infringement. To me that's more a question of enforceability rather than legality. But then again, I'm not a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 In your opinion, is downloading music from a P2P site legal as well? Where is the line drawn? Yes, downloading is illegal. Listening to a stream (grooveshark for example) however, is not (IMO of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 Because the NFL owns the copyright and can distribute it as it sees fit. If you don't subscribe to HBO, should you be able to watch their programming because it's on in your neighbor's house? If my naeighbor invites me and 20 people over to watch a fight on HBO, are we committing an illegal viewing? Are you saying we should pay HBO for the viewing? It certainly seems you believe so. It's not your property to make that determination with. If you're a band with a song, do you want some guy in California to say, "I can buy the song if I want but why should I when I can get it for free?" When you do that, and so many here do that I know I'm talking to a wall, you hurt the artist. If instead of buying it, I "get it for free" from the radio and then I tape the song and put it and others on a mix tape as a gift to someone, is the recipient of the gift tape "illegally" listening to the music? I can't imagine anyone could trick themselves into thinking watching a online feed of a copyrighted telecast was legal, but I hear what you are saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 If my naeighbor invites me and 20 people over to watch a fight on HBO, are we committing an illegal viewing? Are you saying we should pay HBO for the viewing? It certainly seems you believe so. I agree, it's a very fine line. I'd argue that making something publicly available to anyone with an internet connection vs. inviting friends over to watch a fight is on two far apart sides of this line. That's just me. If instead of buying it, I "get it for free" from the radio and then I tape the song and put it and others on a mix tape as a gift to someone, is the recipient of the gift tape "illegally" listening to the music? Technically, yes, if it can be proved that your friend knows that you don't have the legal right to make the copy and distribute it to him / her. Copyright law is not usually strictly enforced, which in my opinion leads a lot of people to completely disregard it. If you want to disregard it, I don't really give a damn (I got out of the music industry years back, so it's not impacting my paycheck anymore.) But to pretend it's legal is another thing altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 If instead of buying it, I "get it for free" from the radio and then I tape the song and put it and others on a mix tape as a gift to someone, is the recipient of the gift tape "illegally" listening to the music? Your taping=infringement. Your distribution also is infringement. You were a double infringer there. His listening solely by himself may not be since he didn't actually "reproduce the copyrighted work," which is the exlcusive right of the copyright holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted August 30, 2010 Share Posted August 30, 2010 It's not your property to make that determination with. If you're a band with a song, do you want some guy in California to say, "I can buy the song if I want but why should I when I can get it for free?" When you do that, and so many here do that I know I'm talking to a wall, you hurt the artist. Actually, depending upon whether an individual believes in some form of natural rights where the moral standard is set by what the decider determines is makes up the rules based on a natural right determined by the ultimate authority (often thought of as GOD by Descartes and others) or altermately if one concludes that rights are determined by some social covenant agreed to by individuals, then the moral standard can be determined by an individual. My sense is that for the most part this is all sophistry. Ultimately even if one is a solid believer in a natural rights perspective, in the end one makes a choice about whether to adopt the moral standard set forth in this natural rights system or not (example, one may have a firm belief that it is GOD's law which dictates things such as dairy should not be mixed with meat, but the fact that there was a practical reason not to mix a prime bacterial source (meat) with a great growth medium (dairy) in a time when refridgeration did not exist is beside the point even though there may be both excellent natural rights and social compact reasons for GOD's law) Without regard to whether one ascribes to the social compact of property law or the natural law one can argue that there is a basic right and wrong here even if one totally disagrees as to where this right comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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