Da Big Man Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 WGR550's Schopp and the Bulldog today were saying that you had to go backwards to go forwards. I think that is idiotic. Did Washington go backwards, did Miami go backwards, did the Jets go backwards. The answer is NO. It takes a good GM, which we haven't had in a decade or so, and a quality coach, which we also haven't had in more than a decade, to recognize the weaknesses and fill as many as you can and then plan around the ones you have left. You go to war with your best 22 players every year. This isn't our parents NFL, you don't build a franchise over 3-5 years and then hope to make a run for Superbowl, you do it now. We have all been fooled again by King Ralph..good GM...not, good coach...not, good QB...definitely not. Levy Brown is the only answer at QB because I have seen enough of the other village idiots to know that they offer nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Miami was 1-15, then won the division the next year. The jets were 4-12, then nearly missed the playoffs with Favre then made playoffs the following year. Washington was 4-12 last season, and now looks much better. Each team drafted left tackles the year after hitting rock bottom. Maybe you do have to go backwards to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 I don't agree with the whole going backwards to go forwards either... ...but if you're going to try and make a point...you're going to have to do better than this: Did Washington go backwards, did Miami go backwards, did the Jets go backwards. First of all, none of those teams are all that special. Only the Jets have done anything in the last couple of years. If you are going to advocate that the Dolphins went forward, how in the hell does their 1-15 season not count as going backwards? The Jets went 4-12 that year? Those two teams support the counter-argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 I think the point is that it's worth the drop off in wins/production to get new guys in there to see what they can do. If Arthur Moats might be very good in 3 years at OLB, then cut Kelsay and give him the snaps even if it means much worse on-field production in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 First of all, none of those teams are all that special. Only the Jets have done anything in the last couple of years. How about making the playoffs? That would be pretty sweet, from my perspective. A couple 2-14s would be just fine with me if it meant a playoff game at the Ralph for the first time since JAX. The alternative of 5-9 wins and no playoffs is the real hell as a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 At the end of the day this league is about one of two things: Excellent coaching (schemes), QB'ing and above average lines you will be a playoff team - Am,ong AFC East teams Patsies* fit this mold Excellent coaching (schemes) and lines with average QB you will be a playoff team - In the AFC East the Jets fit this mold and the fins might. The Bills have had none of the above as both lines and QB situation have been a mess for years - Chan and crew may change the coaching situation but only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Schopp is hung up on the belief that you need a #1 overall pick to get a franchise QB. And that if the Bills deliberately tanked they would be a better team for it later. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagel Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Schopp is hung up on the belief that you need a #1 overall pick to get a franchise QB. And that if the Bills deliberately tanked they would be a better team for it later. PTR I don't necessarily agree with his premise. Even winning 7 games this season should not prevent us from drafting a franchise QB next year because (1) at this point there appears to be an unusually large number of interesting possibilities – such as Locker, Luck, Mallett, Ponder and Devlin and (2) so many of the bad teams have recently signed/drafted their franchise quarterbacks (St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Seattle, Kansas City, Denver, Detroit). As such, we could still win 7 games this season and walk away with someone like Mallett at the draft, especially if we are willing to trade up a few slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Schopp is hung up on the belief that you need a #1 overall pick to get a franchise QB. And that if the Bills deliberately tanked they would be a better team for it later. PTR I'm not sure that's accurate as a caller made that assertion and he disagreed with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 WGR550's Schopp and the Bulldog today were saying that you had to go backwards to go forwards. I think that is idiotic. Did Washington go backwards, did Miami go backwards, did the Jets go backwards. The answer is NO. It takes a good GM, which we haven't had in a decade or so, and a quality coach, which we also haven't had in more than a decade, to recognize the weaknesses and fill as many as you can and then plan around the ones you have left. You go to war with your best 22 players every year. This isn't our parents NFL, you don't build a franchise over 3-5 years and then hope to make a run for Superbowl, you do it now. We have all been fooled again by King Ralph..good GM...not, good coach...not, good QB...definitely not. Levy Brown is the only answer at QB because I have seen enough of the other village idiots to know that they offer nothing. Washington went 4-12 last year and when have they went forward? And in 2007 Miami went 1-15 and the Jets 4-12, is a zero win season required to be considered backwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agardin Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 'You play to win the game' Inevitably when a new regime comes in to take over a team they always talk in terms of changing the culture that led to the previous regime's failures. The team needs to do whatever it takes to win and win immediately. Your players ( assets ) are worth more and can be moved, FA's see the team as one that is on the rise and one that is worth signing with. The team in general develops and gels together with wins and when the culture changes from ' winning in the NFL is hard' to we 'expect to win each and every Sunday' the team will be a serious contender. IMO it is pretty simple, success begets success If that means making astute picks at #7 or #9 instead of #1 overall and then filling in the blanks with strategic FAs then that is what has to be done. If the current regime can't do that then the Bills will continue their playoff drought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 WGR550's Schopp and the Bulldog today were saying that you had to go backwards to go forwards. I think that is idiotic. Did Washington go backwards, did Miami go backwards, did the Jets go backwards. The answer is NO. It takes a good GM, which we haven't had in a decade or so, and a quality coach, which we also haven't had in more than a decade, to recognize the weaknesses and fill as many as you can and then plan around the ones you have left. You go to war with your best 22 players every year. This isn't our parents NFL, you don't build a franchise over 3-5 years and then hope to make a run for Superbowl, you do it now. We have all been fooled again by King Ralph..good GM...not, good coach...not, good QB...definitely not. Levy Brown is the only answer at QB because I have seen enough of the other village idiots to know that they offer nothing. Did Washington play in the Super Bowl? Did Miami play in the Super Bowl? Did the Jets play in the Super Bowl? Not recently for any of them. Now here's a fact you can't dispute: 12 of the 44 Super Bowl winners were quarterbacked by a #1 pick in the entire draft. Now this is skewed by multiple wins by Elway, Aikman & Bradshaw, but having 27% of all Super Bowl winners QB'd by a 1st overall pick, considering how many other players and QBs are taken shows the value that you can get if you're really bad IN THE RIGHT YEAR. All indications are this could be the right year to want to be really bad. There are 3 or 4 prospects, at least one of whom could clearly emerge as a can't miss NFL franchise QB. Here's where the math shows how unbelievably valuable getting that 1st pick is in the right year. I didn't do any counts, but in the 44 years of the Super Bowl, there have to have been over 10,000 players drafted. Probably close to 500 QBs taken. In 44 years 18 QBs have been taken #1. In a bad year, like 2007, you get a reach like Russell, but in a good year you get P.Manning, Elway, Aikman or Bradshaw. Clearly, getting the 1st pick in the right year is the best way to win a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 'You play to win the game' Nope, Herman Edwards, a proven failure as a head coach said that. The real quote should be: YOU PLAY TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL As I stated above, hitting rock bottom in the right year is the clearest path to winning the Super Bowl. Why do you think Lebron James is in Miami? He won enough games in Cleveland, but he wasn't on a team that could win it all. So he decided that You play to win championships, not individual meaningless games. Over the past decade the Bills have won too many meaningless games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agardin Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Did Washington play in the Super Bowl? Did Miami play in the Super Bowl? Did the Jets play in the Super Bowl? Not recently for any of them. Now here's a fact you can't dispute: 12 of the 44 Super Bowl winners were quarterbacked by a #1 pick in the entire draft. Now this is skewed by multiple wins by Elway, Aikman & Bradshaw, but having 27% of all Super Bowl winners QB'd by a 1st overall pick, considering how many other players and QBs are taken shows the value that you can get if you're really bad IN THE RIGHT YEAR. All indications are this could be the right year to want to be really bad. There are 3 or 4 prospects, at least one of whom could clearly emerge as a can't miss NFL franchise QB. Here's where the math shows how unbelievably valuable getting that 1st pick is in the right year. I didn't do any counts, but in the 44 years of the Super Bowl, there have to have been over 10,000 players drafted. Probably close to 500 QBs taken. In 44 years 18 QBs have been taken #1. In a bad year, like 2007, you get a reach like Russell, but in a good year you get P.Manning, Elway, Aikman or Bradshaw. Clearly, getting the 1st pick in the right year is the best way to win a Super Bowl. Up through Bowl XLIV (2010), the winning starting quarterbacks have been: Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB I Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB II Joe Namath, New York Jets - SBIII Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - SB IV Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - SB V Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB VI Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VII Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VIII Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB IX Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB X Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders - SB XI Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB XII Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIII Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIV Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - SB XV Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XVI Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - SB XVII Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders - SB XVIII Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XIX Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - SB XX Phil Simms, New York Giants - SB XXI Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - SB XXII Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints - SB XLIV Just to add context to your post, there are a lot of number 1s and likely a few more first rounders. I agree that we need a franchise QB, hopefully the bills will be able to get one next year. IMO the team needs to change the losing culture and when drafting next year, if we can get players like Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco ( both are future SB caliber qbs ) with something other than number #1 overall picks then that is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonestake Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I agree with the idea that sometimes you have to bottom out to get better but I don't like it coming from a guy who admittedly doesn't like football. I'm assuming it's because he has serious scarring in his rectum from all the atomic wedgies he received from the football players in high school. Mike Poop knows jack about competing or building a team and has no business discussing anything but stamp collections and cheese drafts. The concept is solid, the source is suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonestake Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Mike Poop is a clown. The sooner we all realize that, the sooner we can get on with our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I don't think he's got it wrong at all.........I listened to different parts of the show today and it made sense. If the goal was to win the most amount of games this year, they would have picked up some mediocre veteran QB instead of going with the garbage that we have.........And, they would not switch to the 3-4 and put all these players out of position. Now, doing/not doing those two things might have got us to 7 wins this year, but what good is that. You can only hang your hat on the fluky Trent Dilfer year for so long. You need a top QB in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Did Washington play in the Super Bowl? Did Miami play in the Super Bowl? Did the Jets play in the Super Bowl? Not recently for any of them. Now here's a fact you can't dispute: 12 of the 44 Super Bowl winners were quarterbacked by a #1 pick in the entire draft. Now this is skewed by multiple wins by Elway, Aikman & Bradshaw, but having 27% of all Super Bowl winners QB'd by a 1st overall pick, considering how many other players and QBs are taken shows the value that you can get if you're really bad IN THE RIGHT YEAR. All indications are this could be the right year to want to be really bad. There are 3 or 4 prospects, at least one of whom could clearly emerge as a can't miss NFL franchise QB. Here's where the math shows how unbelievably valuable getting that 1st pick is in the right year. I didn't do any counts, but in the 44 years of the Super Bowl, there have to have been over 10,000 players drafted. Probably close to 500 QBs taken. In 44 years 18 QBs have been taken #1. In a bad year, like 2007, you get a reach like Russell, but in a good year you get P.Manning, Elway, Aikman or Bradshaw. Clearly, getting the 1st pick in the right year is the best way to win a Super Bowl. I counted 13 on that list. Did you miss Eli? It's 14 if you count Namath (AFL number one overall) and 15 if you count Steve Young (number one supplemental draft - wonder if he would have been number one coming out of college?).......A lot of other high picks, too. Heck, Trent Dilfer was the 6th pick of the draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I don't necessarily agree with his premise. Even winning 7 games this season should not prevent us from drafting a franchise QB next year because (1) at this point there appears to be an unusually large number of interesting possibilities – such as Locker, Luck, Mallett, Ponder and Devlin and (2) so many of the bad teams have recently signed/drafted their franchise quarterbacks (St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Seattle, Kansas City, Denver, Detroit). As such, we could still win 7 games this season and walk away with someone like Mallett at the draft, especially if we are willing to trade up a few slots. I understand what your saying, but there are always 5 or 6 guys talked about before the college season. Then in the end there's one maybe two that end up proving they are first round talent. I.E. Jevan Snead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I understand what your saying, but there are always 5 or 6 guys talked about before the college season. Then in the end there's one maybe two that end up proving they are first round talent. I.E. Jevan Snead. Or Brian Brohm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I counted 13 on that list. Did you miss Eli? It's 14 if you count Namath (AFL number one overall) and 15 if you count Steve Young (number one supplemental draft - wonder if he would have been number one coming out of college?).......A lot of other high picks, too. Heck, Trent Dilfer was the 6th pick of the draft! I missed Plunkett's 2nd win. 31.8%, even better. That means if all players were created equal, the natural odds of winning the Super Bowl with a #1 pick would be less than 1%, but almost 1 of every 3 Super Bowls are won with the #1 pick in the draft. Expanding it to non QBs the #1 pick has played on 43% of SB winners if I have it right adding Russell Maryland & Ed Jones 2 each & Orlando Pace once. The more you look at it, the better it is to bottom out-do we get to 4 Super Bowls with Bruce Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I missed Plunkett's 2nd win. So did Joe Theisman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todzilla Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Mike Poop is a clown. The sooner we all realize that, the sooner we can get on with our lives. Oh I see what you did there, a super clever play on Mike's last name as an insult . Wow, really coming strong with that 13th post. As for the topic, with the right GM/scouts, I think drafting around 10 is okay, but bottoming out can certainly help the process if you can hit on a top LT, QB, or game changing DE like Bruce. I can't make myself cheer for the Bills to lose, but if they only win a few (I think they will do better than that) there is a silver lining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 WGR550's Schopp and the Bulldog today were saying that you had to go backwards to go forwards. I think that is idiotic. Did Washington go backwards, did Miami go backwards, did the Jets go backwards. The answer is NO. It takes a good GM, which we haven't had in a decade or so, and a quality coach, which we also haven't had in more than a decade, to recognize the weaknesses and fill as many as you can and then plan around the ones you have left. You go to war with your best 22 players every year. This isn't our parents NFL, you don't build a franchise over 3-5 years and then hope to make a run for Superbowl, you do it now. We have all been fooled again by King Ralph..good GM...not, good coach...not, good QB...definitely not. Levy Brown is the only answer at QB because I have seen enough of the other village idiots to know that they offer nothing. [/quot Don't agree at all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Or Brian Brohm Good point, him too for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Miami was 1-15, then won the division the next year. The jets were 4-12, then nearly missed the playoffs with Favre then made playoffs the following year. Washington was 4-12 last season, and now looks much better. Who cares about facts though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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