Carp Czar

[Jim in Anchorage]

I am just thowing this in here so you don't break the record for uninterrupted consecutive posts. You hit 6.

[KD in CA]

I am just thowing this in here so you don't break the record for uninterrupted consecutive posts. You hit 6.

I hesitated to post at all since EII is threatening Steely Dan's all time record for highest % of posts by a single poster in one thread.

 

 

"I assume they are like regular carp, but better in science and math."

OMG, that's so funny because it's SO TRUE!!!1 Asians ARE really good at math and science!! That Colbert really comes up with some original material. I bet it's even funnier if he raised his eyebrow while delivering the punch line!

[ExiledInIllinois]

I am sorry... I know people don't care... But I figure I would keep people abreast of the situation if they wanted too.

 

I think the original poster elluded to me... Again, sorry... I didn't want to make new threads. It is political and just thought people want to hear stuff that isn't hype or enviro hysteria like the kind the pols are putting out. Didn't the Jr. Sen from NYS just speak on this (carp)?

[ExiledInIllinois]

I hesitated to post at all since EII is threatening Steely Dan's all time record for highest % of posts by a single poster in one thread.

 

 

 

OMG, that's so funny because it's SO TRUE!!!1 Asians ARE really good at math and science!! That Colbert really comes up with some original material. I bet it's even funnier if he raised his eyebrow while delivering the punch line!

 

 

Why the hate? If you don't speak out over this kinda stuff, it leads to what we have in place today.

 

[KD in CA]

Why the hate? If you don't speak out over this kinda stuff, it leads to what we have in place today.

 

 

Hate?!? Just busting your chops a little, Sensitive Sally.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Hate?!? Just busting your chops a little, Sensitive Sally.

 

 

My bad!

 

This whole isssue is so ridiculous when given the actual facts... I am amazed at how much traction carp can get. They show the video of all the fish jumping... What they don't tell you is that they are shocking the fish to get those results. The also don't tell you that the wickets (dams) are down in Beardstown and Peoria since February... There are navigable passes around those structures... That the fish will spawn even more down there because conditions are ideal. The state of WV says that they will dodge the whole carp thing because the spacing of dams are under the minimum of what the fish need to successfully spawn. Here in Illinois with the last two dams on the Illinois in the down position... It is an open shot for well over a 100 miles of big river from Peoria to the MS river. Actual real facts get in the way of the enviro hysteria they want you to hear! Just look at the nuts in New York and how they are latching on to the "invasion theory." There have been studies out there for a many years about this... The enviros don't want people to look at...

 

Gotta admit... Hysteria sells!

[Alaska Darin]

So are we supposed to be for or against the carp?

[ExiledInIllinois]

So are we supposed to be for or against the carp?

 

Do your own research!

 

Against of course.

 

Again... There are 4 types of Asian carp: grass, black, silver, and bighead... All they are worried about is silver and bighead... Grass are already in the lakes (sans superior)... The populations are not sustaining. There are only a handfull of places where the silver and bighead will spawn and the lakes are not one of them even if they do get in.

 

Minnesota is a classic example of this hysteria... They are all worried about the small portion of Lake Superior (were even grass carp don't exist)... Why aren't they closing down the front door on the MS? Oh, right... That road leads right to the Twin Cities.

 

Again... These fish need +60 miles of BIG river (unobstructed river, note I did say the the dams at Beardstown and Peoria are frequently lowered: wickets) to spawn. They won't spawn in Lake Erie or the Niagara river... They can't. Also, temps have to be well in to the 70's with adequate shallow backwaters and sloughs. Anyway... The zebra mussels and quagga mussels (there are billions if not trillions of those on the bottom of Lake Michigan) that came through the Seaway-Welland have already beaten the carp to the food supply.

[ExiledInIllinois]

This is what happens to Lake Michigan and the Great Lakes when they push for reversing the flow of the rivers back to Lake Michigan. The last two days of rain caused massive flooding... They had to alleviate the backup of water in the canal into Lake Michigan at Chicago Harbor (Chicago River) and in Wilmette (NorthShore Channel). Down on the south side we remained shut. The water did get 4 feet higher than normal on the canal side and we did have reverse itself... But they didn't call for backing it up into the lake... So it remained shut until the water righted itself downstream.

 

Beach Closings in Indiana

 

Notice the spike the last two days! And that is just Indiana miles away, not the Illinois beaches.

 

IMO... If this business isn't "done right"... MORE enviro harm will be done!

 

Be careful what people wish for...

 

 

EDIT: The funny thing is if you read the test results... They list the source as "unknown!" Those multiple day closings? They know where it is coming from... Those are "rain events."

[Frit0 Bandit0]

Carp is the fruit of the lake. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, sautee it. There's, um, Carp kebabs, Carp creole, Carp gumbo, pan fried, deep fried, stir fried. There's pineapple Carp and lemon Carp, coconut Carp, pepper Carp, Carp soup, Carp stew, Carp salad, Carp and potatoes, Carp burger, Carp sandwich...

 

Carp Czar... incredible. Bush let the Gd damn Carp overrun our perimeter and now BO has to fix this too. Thank you Obama, you da man.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Michigan stop the disaster or Illinois will sue!

 

Michigan Oil Spill

 

My son is playing this week at the beach where the Kalamazoo River meets Lake Michigan @ Saugatuck, MI!

 

 

Dammit... I new I should have invested in tar remover packets back in January!

[ExiledInIllinois]

Carp found in Lake Cal may have been put there...

 

Ya think?

 

 

Again... These fish need a RIVER with proper CFS flow rate to spawn in the wild... And they need 60+ miles of UNOBSTRUCTED river.

 

Not sure I posted this yet...

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Here is an update. The federal suit that was brought up by the 5 states will go on to testimony startinig Sept. 7. Again, strange how NYS is not in on it... No peep out of Ontario either.

 

Something interesting that I always knew. We all talk about the Chicago Diversion and water that leaves the Great Lakes. Actually Ontario Canada puts MORE water INTO the Great Lakes than Chicago, Illinois takes out:

 

http://www.greatlakeswaterwars.com/chapter6.htm

 

"Why are these dams here? They are the primary hydrologic structures behind the giant Ogoki diversion, by far the largest inter- Basin water transfer project ever built in the Great Lakes region (fig. 6.1).2 The Waboose Dam serves as the diversion’s backstop, cutting through the upper reaches of the Ogoki River and blocking off water that would otherwise wind its way to Hudson Bay. Stretching from one bank of the Ogoki to the other, the Waboose Dam steals water from the upper reaches of the river, backing it up into a sprawling man-made reservoir that feeds toward Summit Dam. If Waboose is the plug that creates this giant diversion, Summit is the outlet—and the tap is almost always open—pouring billions of gallons of reversed Ogoki River water daily toward Lake Nipigon and ultimately into Lake Superior.

 

With an average estimated flow of about 4,000 cubic feet per second (cfs), the Ogoki diversion is 25 percent larger than the highly contentious Illinois diversion (at 3,200 cfs). But unlike the Illinois diversion, Ogoki is practically devoid of controversy— boring by comparison. Most people don’t even know it exists. Its remoteness lends to its obscurity, and so does its age—it was completed in 1943. But the Illinois diversion is four decades older, and it still makes headlines. What is it then that makes the Ogoki diversion so noncontroversial..."

 

This is more than fish/carp... It is a water war. They want more water for their purposes. Closing the locks will not stop the fish. Fish are a smokescreen and excuse the bad pun: a red herring.

 

 

 

"The Ogoki River is a river in the Thunder Bay and Cochrane Districts of Ontario.

 

The river flows northeast from lakes west of Lake Nipigon to Ogoki, where it joins the Albany River which empties into James Bay. The river is 480 km in length. In 1943, the Hydro-Electric Power Commission of Ontario, now Ontario Power Generation, diverted a large part of the upper Ogoki to flow into Lake Nipigon and so to the Great Lakes. This diversion was intended to increase water flow at a hydroelectric plant at Niagara Falls, downstream of Lake Erie.

 

The Ogoki flows through Wabakimi Provincial Park and is used for canoeing and fishing.

 

The Ogoki Reservoir north of Lake Nipigon formed by a dam at Waboose Rapids is 70 km long and covers an area of approximately 150 square kilometres"

 

How is the "balance" going to be affected if they achieve hyrdarulic separation at Chicago... Right now 25% MORE water is enterinig the lakes than leaves @ Chicago. Separate and 125% is added! More power at Niagara? What happens to the power plant at Lockport, ILLINOIS?

 

 

[erynthered]

 

Asian Carp flying around in IN.

[ExiledInIllinois]

youtube.com/watch?v=qfG4vsJ5_xI&feature=player_embedded

 

Asian Carp flying around in IN.

 

True.

 

I was just on near the Wabash canoeing with the family this past weekend... Pretty low water... Didn't see any on that trib of the Wabash. Anyway, there is something like 22 ways invasive species can get into the lakes. Just had a nice cruiser (pleasure craft) come down from the lakes... From Montreal. They went through the Trent-Severn (Lake Ontario to Lake Huron)... Said they were gonna do the "Great Loop"... Bought the boat in New York State... I asked if they were going right up the coast and into the St. Lawrence at Gaspé... They said no... Going to go up the Hudson and into the Lake Champlain canal... Then through the Richelieu to the St. Lawrence and Montreal... Will take them a year.

 

Now you know why NYS isn't in the suit... Why don't they hydraulically separate those waterways?

 

 

youtube.com/watch?v=qfG4vsJ5_xI&feature=player_embedded

 

Asian Carp flying around in IN.

 

I forgot to add. Some how these carp are getting past solid structures (dams)... How can that be? ;) Some of the dams are pretty tall and of course don't have a lock...

 

How well will "hydraulic separation" "really" work?

Edited August 31, 2010 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

Here is an update on who the "Carp Czar" is going to be...

 

Carp Czar: John Gross

 

Interesting stuff in the article on what the Italian biologist said in court via video hookup from Italy:

 

An Italian biologist testified that a genetic test that has indicated the presence of Asian carp in the Chicago area could give misleading results.

 

Testifying by video hookup from Italy, Gentile Ficetola of the University of Milan said the so-called environmental DNA testing could have found remains of dead fish or fish that were transported in barges' ballast water. Ficetola and his colleagues were pioneers of the DNA technique, he said.

 

David Lodge, the University of Notre Dame scientist who found carp DNA in Chicago waters, has acknowledged such possibilities but says it's much likelier the DNA came from live fish.

 

 

As I have said many times before while working at the lock... I have personally seen dead Asian carp (silver) being transported on the sides of barges (silver carp jump out of the water into passing boats) towards the Lake Michigan side. These incidents of dead fish being transported through and above the electric fish barrier, about a handful of times last year, were right before the eDNA tests were conducted. IMO, something "fishy" is going on with this new form (DNA) of testing... It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out... Just a set of eyes on the waterway. God help us if we put our total faith in the main academic circles/enviromentalist groups like the ones David Lodge represents.

Edited September 8, 2010 by ExiledInIllinois

[Nanker]

Here is an update on who the "Carp Czar" is going to be...

 

Carp Czar: John Gross

 

Interesting stuff in the article on what the Italian biologist said in court via video hookup from Italy:

 

An Italian biologist testified that a genetic test that has indicated the presence of Asian carp in the Chicago area could give misleading results.

 

Testifying by video hookup from Italy, Gentile Ficetola of the University of Milan said the so-called environmental DNA testing could have found remains of dead fish or fish that were transported in barges' ballast water. Ficetola and his colleagues were pioneers of the DNA technique, he said.

 

David Lodge, the University of Notre Dame scientist who found carp DNA in Chicago waters, has acknowledged such possibilities but says it's much likelier the DNA came from live fish.

 

 

As I have said many times before while working at the lock... I have personally seen dead Asian carp (silver) being transported on the sides of barges (silver carp jump out of the water into passing boats) towards the Lake Michigan side. These incidents of dead fish being transported through and above the electric fish barrier, about a handful of times last year, were right before the eDNA tests were conducted. IMO, something "fishy" is going on with this new form (DNA) of testing... It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out... Just a set of eyes on the waterway. God help us if we put our total faith in the main academic circles/enviromentalist groups like the ones David Lodge represents.

 

There's got to be a line in there someplace about Italians, sleeping with the fishes, etc.

I'm just sayin'.

[ExiledInIllinois]

There's got to be a line in there someplace about Italians, sleeping with the fishes, etc.

I'm just sayin'.

 

Seems Europe is way ahead of us on this... What about the Polish?

 

The threat to the Great Lakes posed by Asian carp has been greatly exaggerated, says an Ohio State professor who claims the experience to form a learned opinion.

 

"I've been working with the fish for 15 years," said Konrad Dabrowski, an aquaculturist with the School of Environment and Natural Resources.

 

There have been forecasts of doom for sport and commercially desirable species such as walleye and yellow perch should the invasive carp be let loose.

 

 

What about this Polish Guy!

Edited September 9, 2010 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

If anybody cares... Here is an update. I am surpirsed they were able to get this article in a liberal-enviro cyber-rag like the Huffington Post:

 

Economic Costs Clear

 

"Despite the confusion, there were some black and white facts presented last week - namely, the economic consequences of shutting down our valuable waterway transportation routes. Dr. Joseph Schwieterman, the well known DePaul economist who originally evaluated the costs of lock closure, provided a great deal of insight into the costs imposed by closure. Costs such as negative impacts to Chicago public safety, decline in real estate value along the CAWS and devastating effects to the tourism industry in Chicago that relies almost solely on the locks for business all add up to millions of dollars lost and livelihoods of hundreds Americans down the drain. Schwieterman also discussed a startling new figure from a soon to be released study by the Ports of Indiana of more than $1 billion dollars in losses per year to the Indiana Lakeshore economy. Resources of this magnitude would be better served on researching a more comprehensive solution to this problem.

 

While the economic impacts of lock closure are immediate and detrimental to the region, the speculative case presented by the Great Lakes attorneys general this week underscores the degree to which rhetoric, rather than logic, has driven this issue. Let's hope the court sides with logic."

 

 

What I have been saying all along.