PDaDdy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 You're right, Lynch's off field issues don't make Freddy a better Rb. Fred Jackson's better YPC in 2007, 2008 and 2009 than Lynch, his better fumble/carry ratio, his number of receptions over the last three seasons and his Yards per catch make him a better RB than Lynch. How many points do they hand out for those stats again? I seem to be forgetting. Last I remember they didn't account for ****! Get a clue buddy! TDs put points on the baord. Lynch scores em. To win which is the ultimate goal you need more TDs on the board than the team you are playing against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 OK.......I don't want to come in an ruffle any feathers here, but there are some facts that many of you are leaving out about Fred Jackson's season last year, especially when trying to compare his production to Lynch's. You have to remember that 4 of Fred Jack's most productive games last season came Weeks 1-3 and Week 17. In the first 3 weeks of the season, Jackson got to run behind our offensive line.....our real starters before they really started dropping like flies. Granted, our offensive line is not very good even when all the starters are in there, but they were better when they were healthy for the most part early in the year. As for Week 17, the Colts played their 2nd and 3rd string defense for most of the game. What does this matter? Well, Lynch did not get a single carry in any one of those games. Now, who knows what would have happened if Lynch got to run behind our original offensive line early in the year when guys were healthy. Nobody knows if he would have been as successful against the Colts 3rd string defense in the snow the last game of the season. The point is, if you look at some of Jackson's best games from last year, Lynch didn't have the same opportunity to produce in those same games. Look......I am not trying to take anything away from Jackson. I am not trying to say Lynch is a better RB. I am just trying to add in some, what I think anyway, very important details that most people seem to leave out. I hope people realize that just because they like 1 RB more than another one, doesn't mean one has to be great and the other one has to be trash. THEY CAN BE BOTH VERY GOOD RBs!!! It doesn't have to be 1 or the other. I like Jackson. I think he is a good back. But his lack of TD making abilities is a reason for concern. The fact that he will be 30 years old is a reason for concern. He is a good RB, but the fact is he is not a GREAT RB. He is not a GAME CHANGER. He is a solid RB. I like Lynch as well. I actually think he has more natural talent and gifts than Jackson does, but he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer either. He does stupid things off the football field that may end up ending his career at some point. But, he is also a very solid RB.....in fact, he is a Pro Bowl RB. He has a lot of skills. He actually score TDs as well! But obviously, there are many concerns about him as well. The point is, I wish people would stop trying to praise 1 of these guys while destroying the other. They are both very good RBs and they both have their strengths and weaknesses. You don't need to work so hard to make one that much better than the other. When you break it down, they are actually pretty similar. Not in style, but in production and what they can give you. Personally, I am glad that all of these RBs are on our team. I would rather play with Lynch than against him. I would rather play with Jackson than against him. I would rather play with Spiller than against him. A creative offensive mind can get all of these guys touches if need be. While I still think that 1 of them will be gone before the season (most likely Lynch), I am not opposed to using all 3 on a regular basis. And hey, if Edwards (Captain Checkdown) is our QB, they all might have 100+ catches by the end of the year! I agree 100% The truly intelligent fans appreciate both. It is amazing though that people that praise Jackson don't have anything good to say about Lynch even though he runs harder and gets in the end zone. People that praise Lynch as I do compliment and appreciate Jackson as well but the point I have painfully tried to drive home to the idiots is that Lynch scores TD -> TDs score points -> More points than your opponent = WINS! Jackson is a better between the 20's RB unless it is a short yardage play and we need beast mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 The point is, I wish people would stop trying to praise 1 of these guys while destroying the other. They are both very good RBs and they both have their strengths and weaknesses. You don't need to work so hard to make one that much better than the other. When you break it down, they are actually pretty similar. Not in style, but in production and what they can give you. Personally, I am glad that all of these RBs are on our team. I would rather play with Lynch than against him. I would rather play with Jackson than against him. I would rather play with Spiller than against him. A creative offensive mind can get all of these guys touches if need be. While I still think that 1 of them will be gone before the season (most likely Lynch), I am not opposed to using all 3 on a regular basis. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I agree with you on a technical level but let's make this real world. Do you want the guy that averages 16 more inches per carry or the guy that outscores the other 2 to 1 in TDs? Call me stupid but if I can only chose 1....it's the guy that puts TWICE as many TDs on the board. That being said I liked both of them on the team but Marshawn was the guy and Freddie was the awesome #2. Not the other way around. You can pat yourself on the back for yards for a RB or completion percentage for a QB for that matter. The only things that amounts to anything is TDs on the board. You don't get prizes for yds/carry or completion percentage. I agree, I'd rather have more points than yards. I was just pointing out the facts between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I agree, I'd rather have more points than yards. I was just pointing out the facts between the two. Absolutely. Can't argue with the numbers. Freddy has been more productive in a bunch of statistical categories but for some reason he can't get into the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Absolutely. Can't argue with the numbers. Freddy has been more productive in a bunch of statistical categories but for some reason he can't get into the end zone. IMO, Lynch should have been used much more in the red zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Looks like this thread has turned into a Fred/Marshawn debate. Here's the rushing stats from 2008 & 2009: Marshawn Lynch: 2009: 120 carries, 450 yards and 2 TDs 2008: 250 carries, 1036 yards and 8 TDs Fred Jackson: 2009: 237 carries, 1062 yards and 2 TDs 2008: 130 carries, 571 yards and 3 TD's Lynch's total: 370 carries, 1486 yards and 10 TDs Jackson's total: 367 carries, 1633 yards and 5 TDs Jackson had 3 less carries and out gained Lynch by 147 yards Lynch had 5 more TDs than Jackson Bottom line, Jackson is better between the 20's but Lynch is the better red zone RB. Your analysis is incomplete. Nothing in it says for certain that Jackson is better between the 20's and Lynch is better in the Red Zone. Nothing charts the line of scrimmage for each run. What if Jackson had 5 carries from inside the 20 last year and ended up with 5 touchdowns? Not likely, but you did not bother to look at actual Red Zone carries, Red zone YPC, or Red Zone TDs. You also did not look the passing side of the game or how they block. The only conclusion I can make is that Jackson had a better season in 09, and Lynch had a better season in 08. This is a new season with a new offense installed. We shall see how they play once the competition starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 How many points do they hand out for those stats again? I seem to be forgetting. Last I remember they didn't account for ****! Get a clue buddy! TDs put points on the baord. Lynch scores em. To win which is the ultimate goal you need more TDs on the board than the team you are playing against. In 2008 LenDale White had 15 TDs while Chris Johnson had 9. I guess LenDale White was a better player than Chris Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 im in the same boat as the other posters who dont understand the need to bash Lynch in order to talk up Jackson. I like both of them and am glad to have them all on the team. why does it have to be one or the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Your analysis is incomplete. Nothing in it says for certain that Jackson is better between the 20's and Lynch is better in the Red Zone. Nothing charts the line of scrimmage for each run. What if Jackson had 5 carries from inside the 20 last year and ended up with 5 touchdowns? Not likely, but you did not bother to look at actual Red Zone carries, Red zone YPC, or Red Zone TDs. You also did not look the passing side of the game or how they block. The only conclusion I can make is that Jackson had a better season in 09, and Lynch had a better season in 08. This is a new season with a new offense installed. We shall see how they play once the competition starts. HOW CAN YOU BE SO INCREDIBLY WRONG AND MAKE SUCH A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT!?!?!?!?!? Not that anyone other than a small handful of people, like myself, have enough integrity and/or arrogance to answer a direct question but please explain how you conclude that Jackson's 2009 TD total of 2 makes for a better season than Lynch with 8 TDs in 2008? THIS I have got to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 In 2008 LenDale White had 15 TDs while Chris Johnson had 9. I guess LenDale White was a better player than Chris Johnson. ah, the old bait and switch tactic of arguing. using a similar but actually completely different example. id argue that with the 2008 Titans, it was a case of having smart coaches who used the big bruiser in the red zone, like any good coach would (and like ours havent been able to do). iirc, most of white's TDs that year came from within the 5 yard line. they used Johnson to tire out the defense, and then pounded them in the red zone. what a genius plan! and with it, no one is having the stupid argument of which one was better. they were both used effectively. hopefully our new coaches can do the same and we can stop this pointless, self-defeating bickering. although i have higher expectations for the coaches figuring it out, than i do the board smartening up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 In 2008 LenDale White had 15 TDs while Chris Johnson had 9. I guess LenDale White was a better player than Chris Johnson. I'm sorry I didn't realize that 2 TDs for Jackson vs 9 for Chris Johnson were even in the same ball park or discussion. Are you really trying to compare the Titans #1 RB and goal line RB arrangement to a 1,2 punch arrangement like the Bills? Did you even watch the games? We didn't take the ball out of Freddy's hands when we got in the red zone. He just couldn't get in the damn end zone. NO. I don't think Lendale White is a better RB than Chris Johnson. Before the #1 RB and goal line RB arrangement was setup in Tenessee, Lendale was not as or more productive than Chris Johnson when he had his chance to start. The same cannot be said for Marshawn and Freddy. Marshawn, when given the opportunity to start, has been a better performer than Freddy in the way of TDSs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Does this mean you finally get it? That TDs which lead to wins are the stat that matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Touchdowns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 FINALLY! Someone may have actually learned something from these forums and been educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 No offense to Oklahoma State, but it doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath academically as Cal. And obviously Lynch didn't get into Cal because of his vast intelligence but it still doesn't change the fact he can still get a great degree. He *could* also be a great NFL running back. If either happens, be sure to let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 HOW CAN YOU BE SO INCREDIBLY WRONG AND MAKE SUCH A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT!?!?!?!?!? Not that anyone other than a small handful of people, like myself, have enough integrity and/or arrogance to answer a direct question but please explain how you conclude that Jackson's 2009 TD total of 2 makes for a better season than Lynch with 8 TDs in 2008? THIS I have got to hear. Maybe you should go back and read what he actually wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 HOW CAN YOU BE SO INCREDIBLY WRONG AND MAKE SUCH A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT!?!?!?!?!? Not that anyone other than a small handful of people, like myself, have enough integrity and/or arrogance to answer a direct question but please explain how you conclude that Jackson's 2009 TD total of 2 makes for a better season than Lynch with 8 TDs in 2008? THIS I have got to hear. Reading comprehension isn't your strength is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 How many points do they hand out for those stats again? I seem to be forgetting. Last I remember they didn't account for ****! Get a clue buddy! TDs put points on the baord. Lynch scores em. To win which is the ultimate goal you need more TDs on the board than the team you are playing against. Lynch scored more TDs because he has had far more "and goal" carries then Fred Jackson has. Over his career Marshawn has had 46 "and goal" carries and has converted 10 (21.7%) of them while Freddy has 18 "and goal" carries and converted on 3 attempts (16.7%). He's better than Freddy around the goal line but not by that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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