Where did we really reach?

[Throwback Bills]

According to NFLDraftscout.com this is where our draft class projected and where we drafted them:

 

C.J. Spiller Projected 1st Rd, Drafted 1st Rd

Troup Projected 2-3 Rd, Drafted 2 Rd (high second, but hard working true NT)

Carrington Projected 2 Rd, Drafted 3rd Rd

Easley Projected 3rd Rd, Drafted 4th Rd

Wang Projected 3rd Rd, Drafted 5th Rd

Batten Projected 6-7 Rd, Drafted 6th Rd

Levi Brown Projected 4-5 Rd, Drafted 7th Rd

Calloway Projected 6-7 Rd, Drafted 7th Rd

 

So where is the reach and why were the Bills not credited for getting value at the picks? Every guy was projected to go at the pick or earlier.

 

What if we would have drafted Levi Brown where he projected or Wang for that matter? Would they be saying (DraftNiks) we got "The Guy"?

 

I think Troup, Spiller, Carrington are starters, Wang is mid to late year starter and Undrafted Antonio Coleman out plays Maybin.

 

I think maybe we have and I also think that we drafted more then one of "The Guys"

 

Thoughts?

[The Big Cat]

According to NFLDraftscout.com this is where our draft class projected and where we drafted them:

 

C.J. Spiller Projected 1st Rd, Drafted 1st Rd

Troup Projected 2-3 Rd, Drafted 2 Rd (high second, but hard working true NT)

Carrington Projected 2 Rd, Drafted 3rd Rd

Easley Projected 3rd Rd, Drafted 4th Rd

Wang Projected 3rd Rd, Drafted 5th Rd

Batten Projected 6-7 Rd, Drafted 6th Rd

Levi Brown Projected 4-5 Rd, Drafted 7th Rd

Calloway Projected 6-7 Rd, Drafted 7th Rd

 

So where is the reach and why were the Bills not credited for getting value at the picks? Every guy was projected to go at the pick or earlier.

 

What if we would have drafted Levi Brown where he projected or Wang for that matter? Would they be saying (DraftNiks) we got "The Guy"?

 

I think Troup, Spiller, Carrington are starters, Wang is mid to late year starter and Undrafted Antonio Coleman out plays Maybin.

 

I think maybe we have and I also think that we drafted more then one of "The Guys"

 

Thoughts?

 

The same folks who tell you that you don't use your high picks just to fill areas of need (McKelvin/Hardy/Maybin/McCargo) will also whine about the Bills not addressing needs until later rounds (Wang/Calloway/Brown).

 

This was a very solid draft, and people tend to forget that changing the defensive scheme created more holes than we already had. And then they get mad because the Bills didn't address the holes that they--the fan--deemed a higher priority, thus warranting a higher pick.

 

 

And round and round it goes.

[CosmicBills]

They reached when they took a RB in the first round. For a team with a half a dozen glaring holes, they chose to add a "playmaker" (who will play less than 60% of the offensive snaps) to the team's deepest position. A position where they already had not one, but TWO, 1,000 yard rushers. Also, RB is a position the Bills have time and time again wasted first round draft picks on over the past (playoff-less) decade. From Smith, to Henry (high 2nd), to Willis, to Lynch less than 3 years ago.

 

In my opinion it was a terrible, terrible waste of a pick for a team who frankly can't afford to waste any more draft picks.

[stuckincincy]

They reached when they took a RB in the first round. For a team with a half a dozen glaring holes, they chose to add a "playmaker" (who will play less than 60% of the offensive snaps) to the team's deepest position. A position where they already had not one, but TWO, 1,000 yard rushers. Also, RB is a position the Bills have time and time again wasted first round draft picks on over the past (playoff-less) decade. From Smith, to Henry (high 2nd), to Willis, to Lynch less than 3 years ago.

 

In my opinion it was a terrible, terrible waste of a pick for a team who frankly can't afford to waste any more draft picks.

 

 

Well - in another thread, since the deed is done, I suggested running him 30 times a game (the bricks flew my way).

 

I say - let's see if he's up to his hype.

[Max997]

Troup was the only pick I really questioned where he was drafted but really once you get past the first round, it doesnt matter if someone is drafted a little higher.

 

The more I read about Easley the more I like him

[Throwback Bills]

They reached when they took a RB in the first round. For a team with a half a dozen glaring holes, they chose to add a "playmaker" (who will play less than 60% of the offensive snaps) to the team's deepest position. A position where they already had not one, but TWO, 1,000 yard rushers. Also, RB is a position the Bills have time and time again wasted first round draft picks on over the past (playoff-less) decade. From Smith, to Henry (high 2nd), to Willis, to Lynch less than 3 years ago.

 

In my opinion it was a terrible, terrible waste of a pick for a team who frankly can't afford to waste any more draft picks.

 

 

I think the Spiller has the ability to account for 40 to 50% of our yardage production be it Special teams or offense. Lynch is going to put himself on a short list out of town if he doesn't man -up and show -up

[The Big Cat]

Troup was the only pick I really questioned where he was drafted but really once you get past the first round, it doesnt matter if someone is drafted a little higher.

 

The more I read about Easley the more I like him

 

I agree about Easley, I think his awesomeness will sneak up on Bills fans a la Jairus Byrd 2009.

[port allegany]

At first glance I would agree with you but in the back of my mind was a conversation I heard on a football show with about 3 or 4 ex-players. They were talking about how important the OL was and how a special a certain OL player (probably a LT but I don't recall) might turn out to be for some team. Then the moderater posed the question, "So if you had a chance to get a great LT or a great RB which would you select?". Immediately and unanimously the players said, "RB". The moderater, and me, was puzzled given the discussion preceding the question where it sounded like the OL was the crucial element for an offense (they all agreed prior that the QB was "IT" and went on). The players all said something to the effect, a great RB makes everybody better; by his very presence and a great play by him could result in points where as the great LT enables great 'skill' players opportunties. So, maybe the Bills see Spiller as the 'great' player that other teams will have to scheme for because he is dangerous with the ball.

[SuperKillerRobots]

The same folks who tell you that you don't use your high picks just to fill areas of need (McKelvin/Hardy/Maybin/McCargo) will also whine about the Bills not addressing needs until later rounds (Wang/Calloway/Brown).

 

This was a very solid draft, and people tend to forget that changing the defensive scheme created more holes than we already had. And then they get mad because the Bills didn't address the holes that they--the fan--deemed a higher priority, thus warranting a higher pick.

 

 

And round and round it goes.

 

You can't win with the post-draft press because everyone can get second-guessed, so the media gives the benefit of the doubt to historically successful teams, while questioning those that historically suck. This makes sense, but doesn't make anything these people say right or valid at this point in time. Most of the players that will end up not having careers will not have them for much different reasons than what people are saying now.

 

Also, I think you could argue that the biggest need on the team for the past few years has been to stop the run. Last year our QBs were terrible, but the year before they showed some life. The run defense hasn't been able to stop anyone since Fat Pat left. Even the offensive line, when considering the injuries, didn't do horribly. You can't say that the run defense hasn't been consistently horrible for the past three years. Hopefully some big guys on the d-line (most of whom came from strong college run defenses) will rectify this problem.

 

They reached when they took a RB in the first round. For a team with a half a dozen glaring holes, they chose to add a "playmaker" (who will play less than 60% of the offensive snaps) to the team's deepest position. A position where they already had not one, but TWO, 1,000 yard rushers. Also, RB is a position the Bills have time and time again wasted first round draft picks on over the past (playoff-less) decade. From Smith, to Henry (high 2nd), to Willis, to Lynch less than 3 years ago.

 

In my opinion it was a terrible, terrible waste of a pick for a team who frankly can't afford to waste any more draft picks.

 

I don't think you're using the term "reach" as it's being discussed. A Reach has nothing to do with what needs your team has or doesn't. It is solely talking about where that player was projected to go vs where he actually went. What you're talking about is something more like poor asset management.

 

For what it's worth, I also hate the fact that we've taken so many RBs with high picks in the past decade. The question that I keep coming back to however is what if this guy (been thinking it since the McGahee pick) is the next Marshall Faulk, Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, etc? Passing on one of those players would hurt just as much as passing on any other player that pans out that well. I guess in the end, what I keep coming back to, is that when you have a chance to take a blue-chip prospect (maybe there are 5 in each draft), you have to take it regardless of what your team needs are. The potential that Spiller has is far more than that of Jackson and Lynch combined, so if everything goes according to plan this'll be a good pick and no one will care in a year or two. If not, then we'll all be pissed that we took another RB so early again instead of _________ (Derrick Morgan for instance, the possible next best defensive player in the game).

[SuperKillerRobots]

At first glance I would agree with you but in the back of my mind was a conversation I heard on a football show with about 3 or 4 ex-players. They were talking about how important the OL was and how a special a certain OL player (probably a LT but I don't recall) might turn out to be for some team. Then the moderater posed the question, "So if you had a chance to get a great LT or a great RB which would you select?". Immediately and unanimously the players said, "RB". The moderater, and me, was puzzled given the discussion preceding the question where it sounded like the OL was the crucial element for an offense (they all agreed prior that the QB was "IT" and went on). The players all said something to the effect, a great RB makes everybody better; by his very presence and a great play by him could result in points where as the great LT enables great 'skill' players opportunties. So, maybe the Bills see Spiller as the 'great' player that other teams will have to scheme for because he is dangerous with the ball.

 

I agree with that logic and hope to hell that it turns out to be correct.

 

Also, to bring the bolded question into the context of our Buffalo Bills, you have to have both the great LT and the great RB on the board to even have a chance to pose the question.

 

In case no one guessed it, I didn't like Bulaga at 9 leading up to the draft (still don't either - he's an RT) and am happy we didn't take him out of need.

[John from Riverside]

They reached when they took a RB in the first round. For a team with a half a dozen glaring holes, they chose to add a "playmaker" (who will play less than 60% of the offensive snaps) to the team's deepest position. A position where they already had not one, but TWO, 1,000 yard rushers. Also, RB is a position the Bills have time and time again wasted first round draft picks on over the past (playoff-less) decade. From Smith, to Henry (high 2nd), to Willis, to Lynch less than 3 years ago.

 

In my opinion it was a terrible, terrible waste of a pick for a team who frankly can't afford to waste any more draft picks.

 

 

Tgreg,

 

I am not bashing you....but i pose the same question to you that I pose to everyone who says this.....what exactly would you have done if you were making the decisions in that situation?

 

- Trade down was popular....but how do we know buffalo was even getting a realistic offer to do that?

- What other player would you have selected at that point in the draft

 

 

My theory is this......dont take what some sports writer says are the amount of carries CJ Spiller is going to get as gospel.....CJ Spiller is so multi talented....he can run, catch, play special teams......he doesn't need to pound the rock to be effective he just needs an inch of daylight.......

 

I have no problem with the Spiller pick because he may be the best overall player to come out of this draft period......better then the 1st overall pick.....better then Okung.......other then Suh or McCoy (which we had no shot at) he might be the best OVERALL player.....if that is the case then how do you knock taking him at the 9th pick?

 

Also regardless of what is being said the team might be planning for the departure of Marshawn Lynch.

[Jerry Jabber]

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...l=corey+chavous

 

I really liked Chavous' knowledge of the players we drafted in the later rounds. Sounds like Chavous really gets into the draft and knows his stuff, unlike a lot of the so-called NFL experts on NFLN & ESPN.

[stuckincincy]

At first glance I would agree with you but in the back of my mind was a conversation I heard on a football show with about 3 or 4 ex-players. They were talking about how important the OL was and how a special a certain OL player (probably a LT but I don't recall) might turn out to be for some team. Then the moderater posed the question, "So if you had a chance to get a great LT or a great RB which would you select?". Immediately and unanimously the players said, "RB". The moderater, and me, was puzzled given the discussion preceding the question where it sounded like the OL was the crucial element for an offense (they all agreed prior that the QB was "IT" and went on). The players all said something to the effect, a great RB makes everybody better; by his very presence and a great play by him could result in points where as the great LT enables great 'skill' players opportunties. So, maybe the Bills see Spiller as the 'great' player that other teams will have to scheme for because he is dangerous with the ball.

 

 

Spiller has yet to step on the field. If he proves his hype, the opposition will key on him. If that happens, it will be up to the rest of the Bills' attack to take advantage. And we don't know - yet - if they can. Bush has Brees. Tomlinson had Brees and then Rivers, along with a serviceable OL.

 

 

Personally, were I a DC, I would flatten him hard at every opportunity if he proves irksom - let the rest of the offense try to beat me. If he lines up wide, I have 5 yards to cut him, give him a shiver to the chops or a whack in the midsection. He'll have to go to the middle against me - I'm not letting a fast rb stepping outside the tackles run down the sidelines. If need be, I'll hold him, slam him hard onto the turf (a lesson) and suffer the 5 and 1st.

 

Every team schemes against an opponents' spiff players. Nothing special there. It's just NFL business as usual. Not just offensive players - CIN, woeful as they may be, take effort to knock the daylights out of PGH's Polamalu, and BAL's Lewis. Success escaped them outside of their division, but they have a decent record within.

 

I'm not recommending anyone go out of their way to watch the b'gals - but if you do, you will detect that. It's a treat to watch - the 2 players mentioned above are tough as nails, and the hard hits dished out are highlight stuff.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Troup was the only pick I really questioned where he was drafted but really once you get past the first round, it doesnt matter if someone is drafted a little higher.

 

The more I read about Easley the more I like him

Agree with this assesment. i would have taken Clauseen or if not then the Joseph guy the Giants drafted for NT. Troup might have been there in 3rd round for us. Guess we have to look at this as a two year draft procedure at this point to fill all oiur needs with next year focusing on Tackles and Qb.

[starrymessenger]

They reached when they took a RB in the first round. For a team with a half a dozen glaring holes, they chose to add a "playmaker" (who will play less than 60% of the offensive snaps) to the team's deepest position. A position where they already had not one, but TWO, 1,000 yard rushers. Also, RB is a position the Bills have time and time again wasted first round draft picks on over the past (playoff-less) decade. From Smith, to Henry (high 2nd), to Willis, to Lynch less than 3 years ago.

 

In my opinion it was a terrible, terrible waste of a pick for a team who frankly can't afford to waste any more draft picks.

Get over it. Marshawn is a mystery and Fred is 30 years old. I look forward to reading your posts when CJ lights it up, which I have no doubt he will do.

[starrymessenger]

I agree about Easley, I think his awesomeness will sneak up on Bills fans a la Jairus Byrd 2009.

What worries me most about Easly is his small hand size. Agree that it can be silly to harp on a detail like this, but the problem is his greatest drawback as a reciever so far has been his tendency to catch the ball into and with his body rather than with his hands, which suggests a connection.

[Astrobot]

From DraftTek:

Here is the relative value/reach for each pick compared to our Final Consensus Mock:

 

Rd 1, Pick 9 (9) Spiller, C.J. RB ---------Value (+3)---we picked him up 3 places after our mock had him

Rd 2, Pick 9 (41) Troup, Torell DT -------Reach (-44)--we picked him 44 slots early

Rd 3, Pick 8 (72) Carrington, Alex DE --Value (+11)

Rd 4, Pick 9 (107) Easley, Marcus WR ---Reach (-71)

Rd 5, Pick 9 (140) Wang, Ed OT-----------Reach (-5)

Rd 6, Pick 9 (178) Moats, Arthur DE------Value (+13)

Rd 6, Pick 23 (192) Batten, Danny DE----Reach (-35)

Rd 7, Pick 2 (209) Brown, Levi QB--------Value (+12)

Rd 7, Pick 9 (216) Calloway, Kyle OT-----Value (+73)

Net---------------------------------------------------------- Reach -21

 

Our view at DraftTek was that the Bills had a "B" draft; the problem is that NEP and NYJ had "A" drafts.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I was shocked by the spiller pick too, not risky like Denver grabbing Tebow in rd 1 but as everyone knows that pick will be arm chair QB'd to death.

 

If spiller is great, then it was the pick everyone wanted. If he only makes it as a specialist, PR, KR and some 3rd downs, then every decent player picked up after #9 will become the guy we should have drafted.

 

 

It sounded like Gailey's offensive schemes center around such a talent; so let’s see what he does as he got what he asked for.

 

I am really impressed with all the talent they grabbed from out of mainstream. Lots of team leaders. Lots of stars from smaller stages. Can’t wait for camp.

 

Go Bills.

[starrymessenger]

I was shocked by the spiller pick too, not risky like Denver grabbing Tebow in rd 1 but as everyone knows that pick will be arm chair QB'd to death.

 

If spiller is great, then it was the pick everyone wanted. If he only makes it as a specialist, PR, KR and some 3rd downs, then every decent player picked up after #9 will become the guy we should have drafted.

 

 

It sounded like Gailey's offensive schemes center around such a talent; so let’s see what he does as he got what he asked for.

 

I am really impressed with all the talent they grabbed from out of mainstream. Lots of team leaders. Lots of stars from smaller stages. Can’t wait for camp.

 

Go Bills.

Have no fear. CJ Spiller is no Roscoe Parrish. He is the real deal. There is a reason why they nearly fell over themselves in their haste to get to the podium.

[CarolinaBill]

It should be obvious that we reached for everybody, why take spiller when Clausen was there for the taking, never mind the fact that he plummeted past us, again, in rd 2. why take a NT so early, everybody knows NT's are easy to find, we shouldve drafted a project RT at our 2 spot and hoped he can play LT. And why take a prototype 3-4 end in rd 3, moorman is getting old and we have NO ONE to groom behind him.

 

Clearly, Nix has not listened to the drafting genius of mel kiper, todd mcshay, john clayton, or any of the other naysayers, other wise we would be on the right track.

 

sheesh