Is Edwards Injury Prone?

[San-O]

When was the last time Trent made it through a season NOT injured?

 

[Nuncha]

When was the last time Trent made it through a season NOT injured?

 

 

When was the last time the Bills had an O-line?

[CardinalScotts]

Yes but if you had to stand behind a porous O Line with vicious pass rushers and blitzers coming at you , you'd spend some time in the doctor's office too. Trent has stood up in the pocket, delivering throws despite pass rushers in his face. He's taken some hard shots for the sake of moving the chains.

 

 

and don't forget he's brutal too

[The Senator]

When was the last time Trent made it through a season NOT injured?

 

Junior season, Stanford

 

(before that, high school)

[The Senator]

Is Edwards Injury Prone?

Does a 10 pound bag of flour make a really big biscuit?

[San-O]

Junior season, Stanford

 

(before that, high school)

 

Right. Do you think he's injury prone? Or the victim of bad lines?

 

Maybe both?

[dave mcbride]

No, it's called pocket presence. Gruden talked about it during his rookie QB special. And Trent, like Colt doesn't know how to take or avoid being hit.

 

Here is a perfect example from the Jets game last year. 3 step drop, he doesn't get rid of it at the top of his drop when he is supposed to and then what does he do? He puts his head down and runs into the rush...... That right there is a guy who didn't use the two eyes on the front of his head to avoid that injury. At the 16 second mark.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKeLrygAvc

Was Kijana Carter injury prone? He never was in high school or college. One freak injury in preseason on turf in his rookie season, and the rails came off. The point is that *every* NFL player is injury prone given the brutality of the game and the speed/strength combination of the players. Luck plays a huge part.

 

As for Edwards, he does get hurt more more frequently than the average player -- I'll grant you that. But the "theories" on offer here (especially in GPs first post) aren't based on anything other than gut feelings unsupported by any real analysis.

 

If you want to compare him with Kelly, note that Kelly missed practically his entire senior season in college and was nicked up quite a bit in the USFL.

[Guest dog14787]

Mike Martz's/Greatest show on turf style offense is practically non existent now because it was getting QB's sacked and injured. Now I'm not saying what we had here in Buffalo was anything like it, but the slimy beast of an offense was something that originally evolved from it before turning into the monster it had become.

 

DJ knew he had to stop the beast before it killed one of his QB's so he tried to muzzle it before the season started. Turk Shonert didn't want to muzzle the beast so Shonert was kicked to the wayside. Meanwhile makeshift GM Russ Brandon had his own devious plan in place to harm the QB during the off season as he commenced to decimate an experienced O-line and brought in every QB's favorite kinda fella, ouch I hurt my toe, T.O.

 

So under the circumstances, Yes, Edwards was prone to get injured just like Fitzpatrick was prone to get injured unless he played with happy feet like he did and ran like hell at the first sign of danger.

 

Any QB would be injury prone under the same GM/coaching and circumstances our QB's have faced in recent years in my opinion.

[folz]

Watch the play you posted. Hangman (63) our awesome center, was beaten badly on that play. Levitre (67) didn't block anyone either... Do you see a pocket formed there? LOL! come on dude wake up! Edwards felt the pressure from behind but had NOWHERE to go but into the chest of 97 (who wasn't blocked by our TE (86)) Even if he threw the ball away, he still gets whacked. That sack and QB injury resulted from a COMPLETE breakdown in pass protection.

 

If you really look at that play objectively, this is what happened (according to my amateur eyes):

 

The Jets are sending a blitz, rushing 5 men from the line with 1 LB on a delayed blitz and 1 LB checking the RB.

 

It's a three step drop for Trent (a quick play) and knowing there's a blitz coming, you better get rid of it quick.

 

D. Bell successfully blocks #98

J. Meredith successfully blocks #92

 

Hangartner chips #99 which allows

E. Wood to successfully block #99

 

Hangartner turns back to 93 who beats him, BUT...

Levitre is looking to block #98 who Bell already has taken care of

what should have happened is while Hangartner chips #99 and passes him off to Wood, Levitre

should have been chipping #93 and then passing him off to Hang before he turns to help Bell with #98

 

On the other side D. Fine initially has #97 blocked, who then beats Fine inside on a 2nd move

 

Fred Jackson successfully blocks LB #57...but #52 is also coming on the blitz

 

Trent takes 3 step drop kind of pumps the ball twice, then feels the pressure from #93 on the left, takes a step

up, but by this time #97 has beaten Fine with his 2nd move and #52 is coming in, Trent takes another step in

and then buries his head.

 

So, if you were to blame anyone on the O-line, it would have to be Levitre...

but really, Trent had 2 (maybe 3) chances to throw the ball...if he had thrown at any of those moments,

Fine's man and the delayed LB (who are the guys who crushed him) don't even get close to Trent.

 

On a quick play with a blitz coming, you look for your hot read and try to complete it, if it's not

there you gotta throw it away. It's not about whether you see it coming or not, it's about the internal QB

clock that they always talk about. You have to know in that type of situation how much time you have and

act accordingly. So, I definitely put that play on Trent, with Levitre, of course, not helping the situation.

 

Anyhow, I'm not trying to dump on Trent...I like him and I think he looks like our best option right now

(Fitz ain't it and Brohm and Brown are unknowns). I hope Trent can put it together with better offensive

coaches/play calling, but that play was definitely not Hangartner's fault, and even the best lines in the league

can't hold out for long against a 7 man rush...you have to get rid of that ball quicker.

 

 

 

To the original post, according to how people refer to it, yes, you'd have to say Trent is injury prone

and it does worry me, but does that mean he can't go out and play next season without a significant

injury? No, because who knows and with better coaching maybe his clock gets better rather than rung.

[ganesh]

Injury prone players are players who don't know how to protect themself. Trent Edwards is one of those players. He gets concussions because he doens't see the blitz coming and takes a hard hit.

 

That is not true. In the Arizona game, Trent saw the blitz by Wilson come and lobbed the ball over him to Hardy...Unfortunatelu for him Wilson drove him to the ground . Everyone takes a concussion for that.

[The Senator]

Right. Do you think he's injury prone? Or the victim of bad lines?

 

Maybe both?

One complete season w/out injury since 2001, and you have to ask that question?

 

Seeing as how J.P. Losman suffered with that same O-line, I'd have say that - probably due to bad decisions, lack of conditioning, stupidity, hesitation, not knowing how to land when you fall, an overall lack of toughness, whatever - Edwards is most definitely injury prone.

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

That is not true. In the Arizona game, Trent saw the blitz by Wilson come and lobbed the ball over him to Hardy...Unfortunatelu for him Wilson drove him to the ground . Everyone takes a concussion for that.

This exactly why in my little football brain I define an injury prone player not as a player who falls victim to the episodic big hit which happens to all players, but in a relatively short period of time (his last consecutive two years of play) the athlete is knocked out of important games due to a series of injuries to different parts of his body,

 

I wish it was simply that TE was concussion prone as if this is the case he plays all the time with the Mark Kelso like helmet and though he looks hilarious he ends up concussion free and still plays ball. It is exactly because one hit concussed him and made him not helpful to the team, and in the same short time period he suffered a wrist injury that cost him PT, and also a third injury to a different part of his body I do not remember cost his valuable practice time in a pre-season of his young career.

 

In a game which is great entertainment (in some part due to the violent hits) but has already proved to need the refs to provide a tutu and inordinate protection to the QB, if the Bills choose to go with Edwards as the starting QB, then it is only prudent that they count on Fitzy or Brohm being up to being a plan B cause they quite likely will need to employ this plan B for more than the Frank Reich role doing spot fill ins with great results in 3 or less regular season games and even a playoff start if necessary. Reich's play was already too much to reasonably hope for and we got it. If we count on TE then we will likely need even more for Fitzy given Edwards history of getting knocked out of several games in a short time in the NFL (on top of a collegiate experience of injury as well).

[John Cocktosten]

So the guy wasn't open he keeps the ball and gets killed by 2 guys. You would be the first one on his ass if he released the ball and was picked off. "why would he throw that ball, the guy wasn't open", classic.

and yes he seems to be injury prone.

Did you see the WR covered because you can't tell from the video? Trent IS known for NOT pulling the the trigger. I'm glad that you're not a coach because even if the WR wasn't open, Trent panicked, put his head down and ran into the D line. It's right there.

[thewildrabbit]

Injury prone players are players who don't know how to protect themself. Trent Edwards is one of those players. He gets concussions because he doens't see the blitz coming and takes a hard hit.

Got the Arizona game on my DVR and watched that hit, it was 3rd down and 5 to go. Edwards saw the blitz coming and still got the ball off to James Hardy who got the first down. The Arizona player was heavily fined for that hit because he drove his helmet into Edwards and then into the ground.

 

The Jets game 3 Jets converged on Edwards and one made helmet to helmet contact,one was behind him and the front two bent him backwards. He saw the Jets coming didn't see an open receiver and they were on him so fast as the line protections broke down quickly, all he could do was tuck and hold onto the ball.

 

 

The concussions could have happened to any QB playing behind that crap O line. This season whoever starts at QB is going to get pummeled again as the Bills still haven't brought in a premier LT and they have a PoS at RT.

[thewildrabbit]

If you really look at that play objectively, this is what happened (according to my amateur eyes):

 

The Jets are sending a blitz, rushing 5 men from the line with 1 LB on a delayed blitz and 1 LB checking the RB.

 

It's a three step drop for Trent (a quick play) and knowing there's a blitz coming, you better get rid of it quick.

 

D. Bell successfully blocks #98

J. Meredith successfully blocks #92

 

Hangartner chips #99 which allows

E. Wood to successfully block #99

 

Hangartner turns back to 93 who beats him, BUT...

Levitre is looking to block #98 who Bell already has taken care of

what should have happened is while Hangartner chips #99 and passes him off to Wood, Levitre

should have been chipping #93 and then passing him off to Hang before he turns to help Bell with #98

 

On the other side D. Fine initially has #97 blocked, who then beats Fine inside on a 2nd move

 

Fred Jackson successfully blocks LB #57...but #52 is also coming on the blitz

 

Trent takes 3 step drop kind of pumps the ball twice, then feels the pressure from #93 on the left, takes a step

up, but by this time #97 has beaten Fine with his 2nd move and #52 is coming in, Trent takes another step in

and then buries his head.

 

So, if you were to blame anyone on the O-line, it would have to be Levitre...

but really, Trent had 2 (maybe 3) chances to throw the ball...if he had thrown at any of those moments,

Fine's man and the delayed LB (who are the guys who crushed him) don't even get close to Trent.

 

On a quick play with a blitz coming, you look for your hot read and try to complete it, if it's not

there you gotta throw it away. It's not about whether you see it coming or not, it's about the internal QB

clock that they always talk about. You have to know in that type of situation how much time you have and

act accordingly. So, I definitely put that play on Trent, with Levitre, of course, not helping the situation.

 

Anyhow, I'm not trying to dump on Trent...I like him and I think he looks like our best option right now

(Fitz ain't it and Brohm and Brown are unknowns). I hope Trent can put it together with better offensive

coaches/play calling, but that play was definitely not Hangartner's fault, and even the best lines in the league

can't hold out for long against a 7 man rush...you have to get rid of that ball quicker.

 

 

 

To the original post, according to how people refer to it, yes, you'd have to say Trent is injury prone

and it does worry me, but does that mean he can't go out and play next season without a significant

injury? No, because who knows and with better coaching maybe his clock gets better rather than rung.

Yea well go back and watch that hit again, then count off how much time Edwards had to throw it.

 

I counted 3 seconds and they were already on him, it was 3rd down and 2 freaking yards and they decided to throw!

 

It was a run blitz called by the Jets. they had 9 Jets at the LoS ... 8 Jets came on that blitz

 

If you watch Edwards helmet movement on that play he looks at all 3 receivers, TE to the flat was covered, both receivers were covered closely man to man, he had nowhere to go with the ball.

 

Bad play call, bad protections= concusion

[folz]

Yea well go back and watch that hit again, then count off how much time Edwards had to throw it.

 

I counted 3 seconds and they were already on him, it was 3rd down and 2 freaking yards and they decided to throw!

 

It was a run blitz called by the Jets. they had 9 Jets at the LoS ... 8 Jets came on that blitz

 

If you watch Edwards helmet movement on that play he looks at all 3 receivers, TE to the flat was covered, both receivers were covered closely man to man, he had nowhere to go with the ball.

 

Bad play call, bad protections= concusion

 

I 100% agree with "Bad play call, bad design, bad protections" and I give blame to the receivers as well.

 

And I wasn't saying the line was the rock of Gibralter by any means, sure it would've been nice if they had given Trent more time, but since they didn't, then Trent needs to throw that ball away. Yes, you're right only about 3 seconds before there is pressure, but Trent drops back and makes his reads in 2 seconds, no one is open, on the third second, as soon as he feels that pressure from the left, he should be chucking that ball to the sideline knowing he doesn't have enough time to go through the progressions again.

 

Yes, it's 3rd down, but it's also a 3-3 ball game at the start of the second quarter. If it isn't there and you have that

many guys rushing you've got to throw it away and punt and try to get it next possession. Now if its the 4th quarter

and you're down, maybe you stick in the pocket longer...but not in this situation.

 

Anyhow, what I guess I was originally reacting to was ripping Hangartner (not that I think he's the 2nd coming of Kent Hull or anything), but let's remember that last year he had a rookie on either side of him...I don't think he is/was as bad as some people think.

[Hey Hey]

Injury prone players are players who don't know how to protect themself. Trent Edwards is one of those players. He gets concussions because he doens't see the blitz coming and takes a hard hit.

Would you or anybody else be able to protect themselves with this freaking line. come on

[thewildrabbit]

I 100% agree with "Bad play call, bad design, bad protections" and I give blame to the receivers as well.

 

And I wasn't saying the line was the rock of Gibralter by any means, sure it would've been nice if they had given Trent more time, but since they didn't, then Trent needs to throw that ball away. Yes, you're right only about 3 seconds before there is pressure, but Trent drops back and makes his reads in 2 seconds, no one is open, on the third second, as soon as he feels that pressure from the left, he should be chucking that ball to the sideline knowing he doesn't have enough time to go through the progressions again.

 

Yes, it's 3rd down, but it's also a 3-3 ball game at the start of the second quarter. If it isn't there and you have that

many guys rushing you've got to throw it away and punt and try to get it next possession. Now if its the 4th quarter

and you're down, maybe you stick in the pocket longer...but not in this situation.

 

Anyhow, what I guess I was originally reacting to was ripping Hangartner (not that I think he's the 2nd coming of Kent Hull or anything), but let's remember that last year he had a rookie on either side of him...I don't think he is/was as bad as some people think.

My take is he just didn't have time to get rid of the ball easily, they were already on him... throwing it away is easy to say ...but when you have less then three seconds and several players already in reach... my thoughts would be to not turn the ball over, just eat it and punt on that particular play.

 

 

Nobody on that O line played well last season, nobody! Hangartner might have played every game but he rated very poorly... 983 snaps 4 penalties 3 sacks 2 hits 16 QB pressures and ranked 27th out of 34.

 

I'm not ready to crucify Hangatner just yet tho, he did have 2 rookies on either side of him. Plus the fact he graded out better then Melvin Fowler did the previous two years.

 

 

 

I can only think that the new GM and HC want to try and coach all the players up they way they want and then see what they have. Hopefully they wake the up soon and realize how desperately they need some tackles.

[Nuncha]

If you really look at that play objectively, this is what happened (according to my amateur eyes):

 

The Jets are sending a blitz, rushing 5 men from the line with 1 LB on a delayed blitz and 1 LB checking the RB.

 

It's a three step drop for Trent (a quick play) and knowing there's a blitz coming, you better get rid of it quick.

 

D. Bell successfully blocks #98

J. Meredith successfully blocks #92

 

Hangartner chips #99 which allows

E. Wood to successfully block #99

 

Hangartner turns back to 93 who beats him, BUT...

Levitre is looking to block #98 who Bell already has taken care of

what should have happened is while Hangartner chips #99 and passes him off to Wood, Levitre

should have been chipping #93 and then passing him off to Hang before he turns to help Bell with #98

 

On the other side D. Fine initially has #97 blocked, who then beats Fine inside on a 2nd move

 

Fred Jackson successfully blocks LB #57...but #52 is also coming on the blitz

 

Trent takes 3 step drop kind of pumps the ball twice, then feels the pressure from #93 on the left, takes a step

up, but by this time #97 has beaten Fine with his 2nd move and #52 is coming in, Trent takes another step in

and then buries his head.

 

So, if you were to blame anyone on the O-line, it would have to be Levitre...

but really, Trent had 2 (maybe 3) chances to throw the ball...if he had thrown at any of those moments,

Fine's man and the delayed LB (who are the guys who crushed him) don't even get close to Trent.

 

On a quick play with a blitz coming, you look for your hot read and try to complete it, if it's not

there you gotta throw it away. It's not about whether you see it coming or not, it's about the internal QB

clock that they always talk about. You have to know in that type of situation how much time you have and

act accordingly. So, I definitely put that play on Trent, with Levitre, of course, not helping the situation.

 

Anyhow, I'm not trying to dump on Trent...I like him and I think he looks like our best option right now

(Fitz ain't it and Brohm and Brown are unknowns). I hope Trent can put it together with better offensive

coaches/play calling, but that play was definitely not Hangartner's fault, and even the best lines in the league

can't hold out for long against a 7 man rush...you have to get rid of that ball quicker.

 

 

 

To the original post, according to how people refer to it, yes, you'd have to say Trent is injury prone

and it does worry me, but does that mean he can't go out and play next season without a significant

injury? No, because who knows and with better coaching maybe his clock gets better rather than rung.

 

 

Anytime your center is lying on the turf at your QB's feet, he's been beaten badly...I like Hangman, but I don't think he's a good center.

 

Levitre didn't do squat on that play. He didn't block ANYONE. Wood also got knocked on his ass which allowed the other LB to have a clean shot on the QB. If Wood says upright, he could have rolled outside of Meredith and blocked 52. Can't do much when you are on your ass.

 

Bell, Meredith and Jackson were the only ones who blocked properly on that play.

 

Our great line consists of two rookie guards, a left tackle that started less than five games, a practice squad right tackle, and a center who would be a better guard - this will get your QB KILLED. I don't care who it is.

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

Would you or anybody else be able to protect themselves with this freaking line. come on

The problem here is that since the FO did not see fit to upgrade the OL with a 1st, 2nd or remotely high pick of talent the likelihood is that our 2010 QB is going to in essence deal with the hand the previous QBs were dealt. It certainly is one thing that makes me happy we did not waste our 1st rd choice on a high-priced QB with a recent history of injury (in essence the whole top tier of 10 QB choices, or demand that this young stud take the time necessary to develop before he is a good enough pro (Tebow) as quite frankly any of these choices would have stood a pretty good chance of getting killed behind our current OL.

 

Where this leaves us this year is to put a pretty high value on durability as a trait we need. I am pretty certain that Brohm has more potential than the other two and that Edwards despite laboring with a minor league O scheme that I think is at the root of his tentative style are both better QBs than Fitzy. However, I think Fitzy may well be the most durable of the three and certainly is the easiest to sacrifice behind a troubled OL this year.