It's the offensive line and defensive front, not the quarterback

[Mister Defense]

How can anyone argue with this, that the offensive line is the priority now? And the defensive front is not far behind?

 

The Bills will surely just keep spinning their wheels if the lines are not greatly improved this year.

 

Offensive linemen in 2 of the first 3-4 rounds, with the first pick going to that need as well.

 

I believe that Edwards (or Brohm?) can be the quarterback of the future for the Bills, the longterm answer. But, if that does not work out, then the Bills will have a solid foundation on which to build in the next few years.

 

No Jason Campbell!! No Tim Tebow. Invest in the foundation now, the lines. They have been neglected (or, maybe more accurately, bad decisions have been made) for too long. Time to build from the bottom up now.

 

Taking a quarterback with a 1-2 pick or in a trade that costs this team too much, will continue the pattern of illogical grasping for a quarterback that started with the trade for Rob Johnson.

 

Isn't it time to reverse course now and build the base of this team again?

[kenneuf]

How can anyone argue with this, that the offensive line is the priority now? And the defensive front is not far behind?

 

The Bills will surely just keep spinning their wheels if the lines are not greatly improved this year.

 

Offensive linemen in 2 of the first 3-4 rounds, with the first pick going to that need as well.

 

I believe that Edwards (or Brohm?) can be the quarterback of the future for the Bills, the longterm answer. But, if that does not work out, then the Bills will have a solid foundation on which to build in the next few years.

 

No Jason Campbell!! No Tim Tebow. Invest in the foundation now, the lines. They have been neglected (or, maybe more accurately, bad decisions have been made) for too long. Time to build from the bottom up now.

 

Taking a quarterback with a 1-2 pick or in a trade that costs this team to much, will continue the pattern of illogical grasping for a quarterback that started with the trade for Rob Johnson.

 

Isn't it time to reverse course now and build the base of this team again?

The base of any good team is a Quarterback.

[Webster Guy]

The base of any good team is a Quarterback.

The Giants won the title a few years ago with a great defensive front and O line. Eli was just average then (and now). They beat the hottest team I have ever seen in 30 years with their big men.

[Celtic_soulja]

How can anyone argue with this, that the offensive line is the priority now? And the defensive front is not far behind?

 

The Bills will surely just keep spinning their wheels if the lines are not greatly improved this year.

 

Offensive linemen in 2 of the first 3-4 rounds, with the first pick going to that need as well.

 

I believe that Edwards (or Brohm?) can be the quarterback of the future for the Bills, the longterm answer. But, if that does not work out, then the Bills will have a solid foundation on which to build in the next few years.

 

No Jason Campbell!! No Tim Tebow. Invest in the foundation now, the lines. They have been neglected (or, maybe more accurately, bad decisions have been made) for too long. Time to build from the bottom up now.

 

Taking a quarterback with a 1-2 pick or in a trade that costs this team to much, will continue the pattern of illogical grasping for a quarterback that started with the trade for Rob Johnson.

 

Isn't it time to reverse course now and build the base of this team again?

 

Makes sense to me man...only thing is you're talking to dellusional Bills fans that think Peyton Manning has a crappy O Line and that Brady has no name O Linemen as well...even though they field three probowlers a year and Manning has a HOF center...lol...they dont get it and I even spent so much time researching and showing how important OLinemen are and all they come up with is that we had Peters and it didnt help...they fail to realize that Peters was one of the worst LT's in the league as well as the OLine is made up of 5 guys and that you may only two stars on that line you also need NO liabilities because even with the best LT in the league if your guards suck, your QB still ends up looking at the sky more than downfield...whatever...I'm just glad they are not in the FO anymore (Donahoe) hehehehe...Buddy seems like a dude that likes big nasty mean dudes which bodes really well for our future...

 

Trent Edwards IS the answer at QB, and they will all be surprised when he shows them this fact

[ax4782]

I agree with you that the line needs to be addressed. I think that the team began doing that last year. Our interior is solid with Levitre, Wood, and Hangartner. I think that Buffalo should go after Bulaga at 9 if he is there. However, if Bulaga and the other three top prospects are gone, I think the Bills should take Dan Williams at 9 to get that big NT for the middle. Not to mention that DW is a three down guy who is solid in the middle against the run and the pass. He is the top rated NT in the draft, and I believe drafting the best player at a position of need should be the priority over a person who is the fifth rated person at a position.

 

That being said, Buffalo needs to invest three of the first four picks on the offensive and defensive lines. I think getting two NTs should be a priority. The DE position is solid with Stroud, Johnson, Edwards and Kyle Williams. The Middle is where the need is. I would be happy with a draft that looked like either of the following:

 

1. Bryan Bulaga LT

2. Tim Tebow

3. Vladimir Ducasse

4. Jeff Owens

 

Or

 

1. Dan Williams

2. Roger Saffold

3. Mike Iupati

4. Dan LeFevour

 

I think either of those scenarios would fill all of the Bills' needs with good young players. I think that the first scenario is more likely because the Bills seem to have really taken to Tebow, but know that they have to go OL or DL at 9. The need is just too great, and frankly, Jimmy Clausen just ain't worth it at that point. In terms of overall value to the team, though, I think the second option does us more good. DW can start at NT, and KW can rotate in on passing downs to spell him. Saffold is better right now than either of our LTs. Iupati and D-Bell can fight out for the starting role at RT and Cornell Green provides depth at the RT position. LeFevour has the potential to be the next Flacco. Check out his stats and his game video. The kid has serious skill and is heavily undervalued in this draft class. He could be a real diamond in the rough. Don't rule out the Bills taking a small, fast RB in the fourth round either. Based on Gailey's statements, that seems like a distinct possibility.

[Celtic_soulja]

1. Bryan Bulaga LT

2. Tim Tebow

3. Vladimir Ducasse

4. Jeff Owens

 

Or

 

1. Dan Williams

2. Roger Saffold

3. Mike Iupati

4. Dan LeFevour

 

I think either of those scenarios would fill all of the Bills' needs with good young players. I think that the first scenario is more likely because the Bills seem to have really taken to Tebow, but know that they have to go OL or DL at 9. The need is just too great, and frankly, Jimmy Clausen just ain't worth it at that point. In terms of overall value to the team, though, I think the second option does us more good. DW can start at NT, and KW can rotate in on passing downs to spell him. Saffold is better right now than either of our LTs. Iupati and D-Bell can fight out for the starting role at RT and Cornell Green provides depth at the RT position. LeFevour has the potential to be the next Flacco. Check out his stats and his game video. The kid has serious skill and is heavily undervalued in this draft class. He could be a real diamond in the rough. Don't rule out the Bills taking a small, fast RB in the fourth round either. Based on Gailey's statements, that seems like a distinct possibility.

 

I am not a Dan Williams fan...he is way too blockable...he doesn't push the pocket like the average "space eater" 3-4 NT...and he arm tackles to get those single year stats...also I KNOW Iupati won't be there in the third round...he won't make it out of the upper second round and even that is a stretch...I am not a Ducasse fan either, he's too sloppy and a big project...same way I feel about Tebow at QB...

 

I like Cody, Joseph for NT's and I like of course Okung, Bulaga, and Trent Williams at LT...I like Iupati if you're going for a project guy that could possibly play RT or G, and push Levitre to LT...Iupati has enough upside for me to go after him...he's a complete beast...but still I say the Bills should do everything in thier power to trade up to pick 2 and snatch Okung...then grab Linval Joseph in the third round...I think those quality guys will change the franchise...

[ax4782]

I am not a Dan Williams fan...he is way too blockable...he doesn't push the pocket like the average "space eater" 3-4 NT...and he arm tackles to get those single year stats...also I KNOW Iupati won't be there in the third round...he won't make it out of the upper second round and even that is a stretch...I am not a Ducasse fan either, he's too sloppy and a big project...same way I feel about Tebow at QB...

 

I like Cody, Joseph for NT's and I like of course Okung, Bulaga, and Trent Williams at LT...I like Iupati if you're going for a project guy that could possibly play RT or G, and push Levitre to LT...Iupati has enough upside for me to go after him...he's a complete beast...but still I say the Bills should do everything in thier power to trade up to pick 2 and snatch Okung...then grab Linval Joseph in the third round...I think those quality guys will change the franchise...

 

The reason I have DW as a 9 pick, is because Cody will be gone by the second round. Cam Thomas is a possibility in the second, but Linval Joseph is not good. If you think DW gets mauled at the NT positions, go back and actually watch Joseph's play at ECU. In a sub par conference his numbers were no better than Williams' in the best College Football conference, against the best teams. Williams will need a bit of work, but he has a ton of potential and can be that space eater. I'm not saying he's going to be the best NT in the league ever, hands down. But he has more potential than Linval Joseph. I think Iupati could fall to the early third, though I agree it is unlikely. If Buffalo wants to draft him, they will have to trade back up into the second round, though at that point, I don't think it would cost them much value wise to do so. If he is there, I think that would be a worthwhile thing to do. They made the same move to get Levitre last year, so that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

We lose too much to go up to 2 to get Okung, both this year and next year based on the value chart. I think making that trade would hinder our team for another two years. Okung is good, but not that good. Stay at 9. Take Bulaga if he falls, and if not, take the BPA at a position of serious need. Get DW. If Bulaga falls to 9, they can get Cody or Thomas in the second if they want to go NT, or they can get Tebow and go for Joseph or Owens in the third or fourth round.

[Celtic_soulja]

The reason I have DW as a 9 pick, is because Cody will be gone by the second round. Cam Thomas is a possibility in the second, but Linval Joseph is not good. If you think DW gets mauled at the NT positions, go back and actually watch Joseph's play at ECU. In a sub par conference his numbers were no better than Williams' in the best College Football conference, against the best teams. Williams will need a bit of work, but he has a ton of potential and can be that space eater. I'm not saying he's going to be the best NT in the league ever, hands down. But he has more potential than Linval Joseph. I think Iupati could fall to the early third, though I agree it is unlikely. If Buffalo wants to draft him, they will have to trade back up into the second round, though at that point, I don't think it would cost them much value wise to do so. If he is there, I think that would be a worthwhile thing to do. They made the same move to get Levitre last year, so that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

We lose too much to go up to 2 to get Okung, both this year and next year based on the value chart. I think making that trade would hinder our team for another two years. Okung is good, but not that good. Stay at 9. Take Bulaga if he falls, and if not, take the BPA at a position of serious need. Get DW. If Bulaga falls to 9, they can get Cody or Thomas in the second if they want to go NT, or they can get Tebow and go for Joseph or Owens in the third or fourth round.

 

You're right about losing value from the "value chart" but honestly...too much statistical data can hurt you...Okung is ridiculously safe as a LT pick...he doesn't get beat period...and making our line Okung, Levitre, Hangartner, Wood, Green...even if Okung gives up 5 sacks which is normal for a Rookie Stud at LT....and we have the SAME stats as last year with the rest we go from 45 sacks or so last season to Okung = 5 Levitre = 0 Hangartner = 1.5 Wood = 3 Green = 1 you're looking at one of the best pass blocking lines in football...well worth it IMO...

 

Now, Linval Joseph, I have watched tape on...he gets off blocks much better than Williams...he's faster and stronger 39 reps at the combine and no, you're right he didn't put up 70 tackles...but if you break down the game film of both...which I have looked at them both very in depth, you'll see Joseph got doubled and even trippled in some situations where as Williams was getting pushed around by sometimes only one guy...that's not what a 330 pound NT needs to be doing...people are again, looking at the numbers far too much and not actual game film...Linval had not much for numbers, but watching the way he plays he pushes the pocket more effectively than DW and is far more explosive than Cody...Joseph is my favorite DT in this draft...he's got hand speed, explosiveness and unmatched power...Cody I like for a space eating prototypical fat man in the middle...no stats but magically we get both our ILB's in the probowl because Cody is destroying the OLine for Poz and Mitchell to clean up and get all the stats...like Rolando McClain has done and why he's so highly touted this draft...it was because of Cody

[Orton's Arm]

The Giants won the title a few years ago with a great defensive front and O line. Eli was just average then (and now). They beat the hottest team I have ever seen in 30 years with their big men.

You call Eli "just average then (and now) but his stats say otherwise. This past season, he threw for over 4000 yards, had two TDs for every INT, had 7.9 yards per pass attempt, and a QB rating of 93.1. To put those numbers into perspective, Tom Brady, over the course of his career, has averaged 7.3 yards per pass attempt. Is your idea of "average" "exceeding Tom Brady's career performance, but only by a moderate amount?"

 

I'll grant that, during the regular season of the Giants' Super Bowl year, Eli Manning's stats weren't as good as they were in 2009. In fact, his mediocre performance during that regular season was one of the reasons that team only went 9-7. But Eli stepped it up during the playoffs; and looked a lot more like the Eli Manning of 2009 than the Eli Manning of the regular season of 2006. Had Eli not increased the level of his play, the Giants would not have won the Super Bowl that year.

[Mister Defense]

You call Eli "just average then (and now) but his stats say otherwise. This past season, he threw for over 4000 yards, had two TDs for every INT, had 7.9 yards per pass attempt, and a QB rating of 93.1. To put those numbers into perspective, Tom Brady, over the course of his career, has averaged 7.3 yards per pass attempt. Is your idea of "average" "exceeding Tom Brady's career performance, but only by a moderate amount?"

 

I'll grant that, during the regular season of the Giants' Super Bowl year, Eli Manning's stats weren't as good as they were in 2009. In fact, his mediocre performance during that regular season was one of the reasons that team only went 9-7. But Eli stepped it up during the playoffs; and looked a lot more like the Eli Manning of 2009 than the Eli Manning of the regular season of 2006. Had Eli not increased the level of his play, the Giants would not have won the Super Bowl that year.

 

 

Yes, but come on though, the lines were the dominant factor, especially the defensive line-- I have rarely (if ever) seen the Patriots have no answers like that.

 

I hope the Bills have as much savy as the responders in this thread though, and wait until at least the 4th to go after a qb, if that.

[ax4782]

You're right about losing value from the "value chart" but honestly...too much statistical data can hurt you...Okung is ridiculously safe as a LT pick...he doesn't get beat period...and making our line Okung, Levitre, Hangartner, Wood, Green...even if Okung gives up 5 sacks which is normal for a Rookie Stud at LT....and we have the SAME stats as last year with the rest we go from 45 sacks or so last season to Okung = 5 Levitre = 0 Hangartner = 1.5 Wood = 3 Green = 1 you're looking at one of the best pass blocking lines in football...well worth it IMO...

 

Now, Linval Joseph, I have watched tape on...he gets off blocks much better than Williams...he's faster and stronger 39 reps at the combine and no, you're right he didn't put up 70 tackles...but if you break down the game film of both...which I have looked at them both very in depth, you'll see Joseph got doubled and even trippled in some situations where as Williams was getting pushed around by sometimes only one guy...that's not what a 330 pound NT needs to be doing...people are again, looking at the numbers far too much and not actual game film...Linval had not much for numbers, but watching the way he plays he pushes the pocket more effectively than DW and is far more explosive than Cody...Joseph is my favorite DT in this draft...he's got hand speed, explosiveness and unmatched power...Cody I like for a space eating prototypical fat man in the middle...no stats but magically we get both our ILB's in the probowl because Cody is destroying the OLine for Poz and Mitchell to clean up and get all the stats...like Rolando McClain has done and why he's so highly touted this draft...it was because of Cody

 

I agree with pretty much all of what you said. I didn't mean simply value chart. We have so many needs I hate to see us give up a second and third this year to move up for Okung. We won't be able to get any other top talent, and with all of our holes, I can't see justifying that. Now, here's a dream scenario. Buffalo is able to get Bulaga or Trent Williams at 9, Terrence Cody at 41 and Linval Joseph in the third. Buffalo needs two NTs and Cody and Joseph serve different purposes and that would be a hell of a rotation at NT. Then you get the LT we need plus filling the NT rotation.

 

Never going to happen but that would be a hell of a draft for the DL and OL. Here's to wishful thinking.

[Thurman#1]

How can anyone argue with this, that the offensive line is the priority now? And the defensive front is not far behind?

 

The Bills will surely just keep spinning their wheels if the lines are not greatly improved this year.

 

Offensive linemen in 2 of the first 3-4 rounds, with the first pick going to that need as well.

 

I believe that Edwards (or Brohm?) can be the quarterback of the future for the Bills, the longterm answer. But, if that does not work out, then the Bills will have a solid foundation on which to build in the next few years.

 

No Jason Campbell!! No Tim Tebow. Invest in the foundation now, the lines. They have been neglected (or, maybe more accurately, bad decisions have been made) for too long. Time to build from the bottom up now.

 

Taking a quarterback with a 1-2 pick or in a trade that costs this team too much, will continue the pattern of illogical grasping for a quarterback that started with the trade for Rob Johnson.

 

Isn't it time to reverse course now and build the base of this team again?

 

 

 

The 2008 Minnesota Vikings and the 2007 Minnesota Vikings. They sure looked good with Tarvaris Jackson, didn't they? Just thhhhhhhhhhatclose to a Super Bowl, I thought.

 

Yeah, baby, let's build another franchise building on the Minnesota model. I'm sure another Brett Favre will become available when he turns 41 or so.

 

You can always find a franchise QB. They're common as fallen leaves in the autumn. Bwa ha ha ha ha. The problem since Rob Johnson hasn't been illogical grasping for a QB. It's been grasping at the wrong QBs. There's a name for teams without a franchise QB. They are called non-Super Bowl candidates.

[Thurman#1]

The Giants won the title a few years ago with a great defensive front and O line. Eli was just average then (and now). They beat the hottest team I have ever seen in 30 years with their big men.

 

 

Eli is a franchise QB. Not one of the three best in the league, but he's good enough to take a good team to the Super Bowl. The Giants wouldn't have beaten the Pats without him, though they also wouldn't have beaten the Pats without that defense. But they managed to build a great defense while still drafting a QB extremely early.

 

That's the point. Drafting a QB doesn't somehow eliminate the possibility of building good lines over the next few years.

[Thurman#1]

.they fail to realize that Peters was one of the worst LT's in the league

 

 

 

That's your problem, not ours. Start saying stuff that has a factual basis, and we'll start "realizing" it.

 

You're the guy who was saying a few days ago that profootballfocus had Peters as the eighth-worst pass blocker among tackles this year. Thing is, you were so desperate to see what you wanted to see that you simply totally misread what they actually said, which was that Peters was the sixth-BEST pass blocker in the league this year among tackles. It was a classic case of only seeing what you want to see, we should have called the psych texts and told 'em we had a new example.

[Thurman#1]

Yes, but come on though, the lines were the dominant factor, especially the defensive line-- I have rarely (if ever) seen the Patriots have no answers like that.

 

I hope the Bills have as much savy as the responders in this thread though, and wait until at least the 4th to go after a qb, if that.

 

 

Yeah, the defense was the key to that game. And the Giants managed to draft a franchise QB with an early first-round pick, and yet still put together good lines. That's what should be learned from them. Because it's true that the lines were key, but without Eli, they don't win that game.

[Cash]

How can anyone argue with this, that the offensive line is the priority now? And the defensive front is not far behind?

 

I believe that Edwards (or Brohm?) can be the quarterback of the future for the Bills, the longterm answer.

 

Isn't it time to reverse course now and build the base of this team again?

 

Here's how: I think your second statement is nothing more than wishful thinking. I haven't seen anything from any QB on the Bills' roster to suggest that we'll ever get above-average QB play from any of them, regardless of the talent around them. So that's a key difference of opinion there.

 

I agree that it's time to reverse course and build the base of this team again. However, the most fundamental portion of that base is not located on either line, it's the QB. QB is by far the most important position in the NFL; he's the leader of your team, the face of your franchise, and the one player that handles the ball on every play (unless you're running the Wildcat!). If you don't have a QB (and we disagree on that), then your first priority is to get one. Building the offensive line is priority number two.

[reddogblitz]

We need OL AND QB. Take the best player available at #9 but tie goes to the QB. You gotta have a good QB if you want to be good. Our OL should be better because we should get some decent guys in the draft. Plus we signed a couple of guys. Plus all our guys who got hurt last year will be back. Plus we now have an offensive minded coach who says he will maximize what he has. Last year we had a line that could run block pretty well, but our coaches wanted to pass 70% of the time and our guys couldn't pass block.

 

I think we can improve our OL a lot this year AND take Clausen at 9 if he's there. I don't think he will be, but if he is, pull the trigger fast.

[John from Riverside]

I woul like to know why people say we are no addressing the lines when we are......

 

- Last year we drafted 1 DE with our first (ok....they tried to play him a DE...now he is a OLB) then went to the OG positions with high picks......the O an D lines ARE being addressed. We went out into free agency and got a prototype DE.

 

- If you dont use your 1st round pick this year on a O or D linemen this year that does not mean it isnt being addressed.......you have the opportunity to ge a potential franchise QB at 9, can either take a OT or trade for Gaither in the 2nd round, then can take a DT like Cam Thomas in he 3rd round......

 

 

That is just as good a plan as any

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

I think any reasonable person can understand the posters point. But there's no real definitive way to know if your point is true, just as I can't prove that with a great offensive line one of our QB's couldn't be great.

 

I would argue if you gave the Patriots Edwards and gave us Brady, we would instantly be the better team.

[NewEra]

Look at the all the teams in last years playoffs. Then look at their QB. Then look at their OL/defense. One thing that is consistant= great QB on every team except the jets. Sure the giants beat the pats. Did the jets beat the colts? I agree OL/DL are the NEXT most important thing, but the QB is what really makes the team go.

 

Funny thing is, you think Trent/Brohm can lead this team to success. Poor lad.