rjg1993 Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 more than one way to skin a cat. maybe the best saying ive ever heard on the forum. well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 The Steelers have won more SBs than any team, including 2 recently. They have always been a running and D team. Sanchez did everything he could hold the Jets back this season and they still went to the AFC Champ game. There is more than one way to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I would do a 2 for mcnabb in a heartbeat. I wouldn't want to give up the Bills 2nd this year for an old D. McNabb. I think he is 34 and likely has only 1-2 years left in a good, but not great, career. If the Bills had the other pieces in place (OL, D), then maybe it would make sense to throw a 2nd round pick to Philly for a year or two of good QB play, but that is clearly not the case for this Bills team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I wouldn't want to give up the Bills 2nd this year for an old D. McNabb. I think he is 34 and likely has only 1-2 years left in a good, but not great, career. If the Bills had the other pieces in place (OL, D), then maybe it would make sense to throw a 2nd round pick to Philly for a year or two of good QB play, but that is clearly not the case for this Bills team. Agreed. This is a rebuilding team. The idea of trading away early draft picks for aging vets should not be considered. It should never be considered for rebuilding teams!! :wallbash: The college QB I find most interesting is Clausen. While I'm not a big college football fan, a lot of people whose opinion I respect have indicated he's the real deal. If they're right, he's worth taking at #9. If they're right, it could be worth it to pay a substantial price to trade up to grab him. Let's say--for the sake of argument--that Clausen becomes the next Matt Ryan. And let's say we give up a whole draft to get him. Looking back on past drafts, are there any recent ones that you wouldn't trade away, lock, stock, and barrel, to get Matt Ryan? 2007: Marshawn Lynch, Paul Posluszny, Trent Edwards, Dwayne Wright, John Wendling, Derek Schouman, C. J. Ah You. 2006: Whitner, McCargo, Youboty, Ko Simpson, Kyle Williams, Brad Butler, Keith Ellison, Terrence Pennington, Aaron Merz. 2005: Roscoe Parrish, Kevin Everett, Duke Preston, Eric King, Justin Geisinger, Lionel Gates. 2004: Lee Evans, J.P. Losman, Tim Anderson, Tim Euhus, Dylan McFarland, Jonathan Smith If the Bills offered everyone from all four of those drafts to the Falcons in exchange for Matt Ryan, what do you think the Falcons would say? Or do you think they'd be able to suppress their laughter long enough to say anything at all? If trading away four of your drafts for a Matt Ryan looks good in hindsight, it's definitely worthwhile to consider trading away just one draft for a player you're convinced will be the next Matt Ryan. You just have to be right about that prediction!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well lets see, Clady from the Broncos is a probowl LT and they did nothing this year. Indy and NO had scrubs at LT and made the superbowl. Don't the Browns have one of the best LT's in football? Hummmm.... T jackson with the Vikes had a great OL, Best RB in football and a great defense opposite him and he still sucked. Vikes get whipped in first round of the playoffs in 08. Add Favre and they are in the NFC championship (superbowl if the RB's and WR dont' fumble) It's all about the QB. You're right, you know ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 not always plenty of examples of avg qb's winning superbowls more than one way to skin a cat. The jets made it to afc championship game with rookie qb who was horrible all regualr season . This is a bad example because the Jets would have gone 8-8 and missed the playoffs if the Colts hadn't benched their starters in week 16. Think about it: they should have missed the playoffs despite having the #1 defense and #1 rushing offense in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 My point is that needing a qb and finding one are two different things. It does not appear that one will become available in this offseason . Fix the lines and get the qb when you can . Put it this way if you build a top notch o line and have a solid d . Then you find your qb you can go all in money draft picks what ever it takes to get it done. None of us have any idea as to whether Bradford, Clausen, etc. will be great or not. Don't pretend as if you do have an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 The Steelers have won more SBs than any team, including 2 recently. They have always been a running and D team. Sanchez did everything he could hold the Jets back this season and they still went to the AFC Champ game. There is more than one way to win. You're kidding, right? In 2008, the Steelers were a pass-first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 The Steelers have won more SBs than any team, including 2 recently. They have always been a running and D team. Sanchez did everything he could hold the Jets back this season and they still went to the AFC Champ game. There is more than one way to win. The whole point Ice is making is that your way of thinking is old fashioned. It's not the reality of the game anymore. And his point is proven by the fact that no team has won a super bowl without a stud QB since Trent Dilfer ... that was a decade ago. A DECADE. What else has happened in that decade? ... I'll give you a moment to think about that. The future of the game is only going to be more spread offenses, more passing yards, less focus on the rushing game. And, if you don't lock up the QB position soon, the Bills are going to fall even further behind the rest of the pack. OL, DL, LB are all HUGE needs for the Bills. However, they should be secondary to finding a long term solution at QB. It needs to happen this year or next year. Is Bradford the answer? Who knows. But if your scouts are telling you that Bradford or Clausen are locks to be pro bowl or even hall of fame type QBs, then you have to trust them and do whatever it takes to land one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well lets see, Clady from the Broncos is a probowl LT and they did nothing this year. Indy and NO had scrubs at LT and made the superbowl. Don't the Browns have one of the best LT's in football? Hummmm.... T jackson with the Vikes had a great OL, Best RB in football and a great defense opposite him and he still sucked. Vikes get whipped in first round of the playoffs in 08. Add Favre and they are in the NFC championship (superbowl if the RB's and WR dont' fumble) It's all about the QB. well put, I am all for getting Bradford, even if it means trading up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinBeforeYouLeave Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Flutie made a line that was getting ripped for not protecting Johnson look like the Hogs. His decision making was so much quicker the whole complexion of the offense changed. He skipped passes off the turf and went really cold at times, but he recognized where things were and went after them. Moulds' RAC ability was dangerous, esp. combined with Price's speed, and he found them. Brees could have a 3500 yard season here with a journeyman line placed in front of him. Price and Nelson are legit upper tier talent, Freddie is better than many. You can't flat out blitz/attack a guy with a brain, they will get 6 at some point, and force the defense back in coverage. I was a bigger line critic until I saw the difference Flutie made and again when (dare I say it) Edwards took over for JP. Things loosened up and all the sudden the protection was better, because the ball came out on time. I know, since... not so much. He looked good early, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Okay. I am convinced. We don't even need a line. Or a defense. I think we should just hire 5 fat guys off the street and draft ALL QBs this year. Only then will we made the appropriate commitment to the position. Nevermind that it's a weak class. Just do it. Keep all we draft and release everyone we have, because they suck. How many different ways can you have the same conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Okay. I am convinced. We don't even need a line. Or a defense. I think we should just hire 5 fat guys off the street and draft ALL QBs this year. Only then will we made the appropriate commitment to the position. Nevermind that it's a weak class. Just do it. Keep all we draft and release everyone we have, because they suck. How many different ways can you have the same conversation? How do you know that it's a weak class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinBeforeYouLeave Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Okay. I am convinced. We don't even need a line. Or a defense. I think we should just hire 5 fat guys off the street and draft ALL QBs this year. Only then will we made the appropriate commitment to the position. Nevermind that it's a weak class. Just do it. Keep all we draft and release everyone we have, because they suck. How many different ways can you have the same conversation? How many good defenses have been frittered away in the past 10+ years because of inconsistent QB play? A few. I think the overall talent assembled by Jauron in 2009 could win 10 with a stud QB. (Injuries and lack of QB play proved otherwise) Is the right QB out there right now? Prob not, but we have missed many over the past 10, we choose poorly. Bills fans have to stop accepting that a succession of O-lines (that Manning would make look great) are all to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 It is a QB driven league, but a Chan Gailey offense could be an exception to the rule. As OC, Gailey was able to take Kordell Stewart/Alias the Slash in his first year as a starter to the AFC championship game. Gailey did it with the smash mouth running of Jerome Bettis and the trickery of Slash at the QB position. In my opinion its possible Chan Gailey could have the same kind of success with the fleet of foot, Ryan Fitzpatrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancing_joker Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I love the dilfer and brad johnson arguments. There are 20+ examples of good/great QB play winning in the playoffs and the superbowl. There are 2 examples against good/great QB play. Don't you think it's easier to just get a good/great QB than trying to get great at EVERY other position on the field and then hoping your QB doesn't make a mistake? It's like trying to make really good money working minimum wage jobs. Can it be done? Yes, but you'll have to work 80 or 90 hours a week to get it done. I'd rather get a better paying job and work 40-50 hours a week and have free time to enjoy with friends/family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 How many good defenses have been frittered away in the past 10+ years because of inconsistent QB play? A few. I think the overall talent assembled by Jauron in 2009 could win 10 with a stud QB. (Injuries and lack of QB play proved otherwise) Is the right QB out there right now? Prob not, but we have missed many over the past 10, we choose poorly. Bills fans have to stop accepting that a succession of O-lines (that Manning would make look great) are all to blame. I hear you. And I want solid QB play too. But championship teams have good play everywhere. From the Oline, defense, special teams. And the Bills have so many holes, to focus on 1 position, even QB, and especially this year is just ludicrous. If Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White or Anthony Munoz are available at 9, should we forego them to take Cade McNown?? How many threads can we start about the QB position (and I know I started one) when we don't have EITHER an offensive OR defensive line?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I love the dilfer and brad johnson arguments. There are 20+ examples of good/great QB play winning in the playoffs and the superbowl. There are 2 examples against good/great QB play. Don't you think it's easier to just get a good/great QB than trying to get great at EVERY other position on the field and then hoping your QB doesn't make a mistake? It's like trying to make really good money working minimum wage jobs. Can it be done? Yes, but you'll have to work 80 or 90 hours a week to get it done. I'd rather get a better paying job and work 40-50 hours a week and have free time to enjoy with friends/family. Defense wins Championships also and if someone wants to take the time to go back through the history of the NFL I'll be willing to bet you find just as many average QB's winning a Championship as you do Elite QB's. Coaches like Parcells and Gibbs could plug practically anyone into the QB position and win a Championship in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I hear you. And I want solid QB play too. But championship teams have good play everywhere. From the Oline, defense, special teams. And the Bills have so many holes, to focus on 1 position, even QB, and especially this year is just ludicrous. If Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White or Anthony Munoz are available at 9, should we forego them to take Cade McNown?? How many threads can we start about the QB position (and I know I started one) when we don't have EITHER an offensive OR defensive line?? I'm with you JPS, what good is another QB when we still don't have the O-line to protect him and the good defense on the other side to help win ball games. Its a team effort and I've said it before and Ill say it again, Buffalo has a good group of QB's to work with in my opinion. Between Brohm Edwards and Fitzpatrick we can suffice until the team can see where its at and get new systems in place both offensively and defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancing_joker Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Defense wins Championships also and if someone wants to take the time to go back through the history of the NFL I'll be willing to bet you find just as many average QB's winning a Championship as you do Elite QB's. Coaches like Parcells and Gibbs could plug practically anyone into the QB position and win a Championship in my opinion. That was 20 years ago. Live in the present. It's a quarterback league. Look at all the playoff teams and you'll see good / great quarterback play. Go ahead and tell me about Sanchez. I'll point to every other team in the playoffs. Let's start by getting the Bills to the playoffs before we start planning the Super Bowl victory party. One step at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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