thebug Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 You forgot to change to your "ieatcrayonz" login. It was a preemptive strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 From the NY Times. Not as widespread though. Nice that Toyota is going to such great measures when fewer than 12 instances were reported and no one was hurt. That is a company dedicated to quality--and a response in stark contrast to Ford's problems with the "bucking" Bronco and Explorer. Please don't be a Toyo apologist. Read up on their previous motor sludge problem, their truck lines with the rotting frames, and learn a bit about Toyota. And their blistering, arrogant ego. I'd like to hear from the supplier - how their profit margin was cut to the very bone, had to borrow cash for facilities to be one of their vertically-integrated keiretsu satellites, all the while having to wine 'n dine any Toyo swinging dick that showed up. This is a serious problem, and they dodged it for months. Now when they finally own up to it, you give them a pat on the back. Nice. Do you think Toyota shut down production lines (that costs 10K per minute per assembly plant - fixed costs, guaranteed wages, utilities demand and average daily usage basis billings, loan service, royalty payments for tooling etc.) just because they are nice guys? They are taking that step driven by worries about beau coup litigation. This is going to cost them a big bundle. Exactly why they delayed fessing up. Stop the obsequiousness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet baboo Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 That's what I've seen too. One ABC World News report said that some people are not used to shifting into neutral and to go find an empty parking lot to try it. Not going to bother finding the video online since it was only a 5 second blurb in a 5 minute report. it'd be a no brainer for me since I drive stick I had a different problem with a fully loaded (nice leather seats, satellite radio) Ford Escape rental in 2009. On my way back to NH from Toronto, while going downhill on route 9 in VT the car shuts down on me while I'm doing 75mph. When I say shut down, I mean the dash lights all turned off and my hydraulics disappeared so stepping on the brakes did very little to stop the car. Rather than pee my pants, which I'm surprised I didn't do because this is a curvy downhill at a full 75 mph, I put the car into neutral, turned the key to the off position and then back on again. Nothing happened so I repeated the process. The second time I turned that key, I made a mistake and turned the wheel slightly also as I mentioned, this was a curvy road and the damn steering wheel locked into place. I remember getting ready to panic then when the dash lights all turned on and after jiggling the wheel when the key was in the On position, the wheel unlocked as well. Hydraulics were restored and somehow the engine also turned, which I didn't think you could do in an automatic as I thought you could only push start manuals. If it wasn't for this particular instance, I might be driving an F150 right now instead of the Tacoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Please don't be a Toyo apologist. Read up on their previous motor sludge problem, their truck lines with the rotting frames, and learn a bit about Toyota. And their blistering, arrogant ego. I'd like to hear from the supplier - how their profit margin was cut to the very bone, had to borrow cash for facilities to be one of their vertically-integrated keiretsu satellites, all the while having to wine 'n dine any Toyo swinging dick that showed up. This is a serious problem, and they dodged it for months. Now when they finally own up to it, you give them a pat on the back. Nice. Do you think Toyota shut down production lines (that costs 10K per minute per assembly plant - fixed costs, guaranteed wages, utilities demand and average daily usage basis billings, loan service, royalty payments for tooling etc.) just because they are nice guys? They are taking that step driven by worries about beau coup litigation. This is going to cost them a big bundle. Exactly why they delayed fessing up. Stop the obsequiousness... Yeah JA. It's not like Ford's never had problems in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Yeah JA. It's not like Ford's never had problems in the past. I don't read cincy's posts but I can guess the content. "Japanese carmakers make rustbuckets that benefit from advertising/lobbying that misleads the American public." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 OK. I just looked and I was about right. Cincy has his feet firmly planted in 1972. No injuries. 12 reported incidents. And a total recall and sales halt. Sure it's a CYA but imagine the dedication to quality that does this instead of continuing sales and recalling cars after the fact. Or ignoring the problem, ie, the (old, hopefully) Ford way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 As I suspected (as would most folks who worked for automotive), there's likely more at work here than a mechanical gas pedal assembly. Here's an article - I get the impression that Toyota is leaning towards tossing the supplier "under the bus." http://www.newser.com/article/d9dgcbug0/lo...l-friction.html I never cared for "fly by wire" throttle controls. The gas pedal is a stand alone unit, not mechanically hooked to anything. It relies on a variable resistance sensor to send input to the engine controller, which then opens the throttle blades accordingly with a servo motor. We're talking a small amount of volts here. .8 volts may signal closed throttle, 4 volts wide open. Just a small bleed over from adjacent wires in the harness and all hell breaks loose. I asked a Chrysler training instructor about this. Why replace some thing as simple as a throttle cable with all these electronics? Answer-"the electronic throttle saves the cost of a cruse control vacuum servo." No real reason, just cost cutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 OK. I just looked and I was about right. Cincy has his feet firmly planted in 1972. No injuries. 12 reported incidents. And a total recall and sales halt. Sure it's a CYA but imagine the dedication to quality that does this instead of continuing sales and recalling cars after the fact. Or ignoring the problem, ie, the (old, hopefully) Ford way. You're not getting it. No injuries? They shut down several global production lines. That is huge - probably unprecedented. They are facing a fundamental problem. Repair attempts? Who gets the fix first? Current owners? New sales? http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gc...=32661669.story Thanks for the Ford straw man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movinon Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 If your VIN # on your Toyota starts with JT it was assembled in Japan and is not part of the recall. I find this quite interesting. CTS only supplied gas pedals to those vehicles built here in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 If your VIN # on your Toyota starts with JT it was assembled in Japan and is not part of the recall. I find this quite interesting. CTS only supplied gas pedals to those vehicles built here in the states. Would that imply that Toyota cares more about their home market that others? Are they hoping to avoid a home market recall? Mitsubishi flap in Japan, several years ago... http://www.autosafety.org/safety-scandal-shames-mitsubishi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movinon Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Would that imply that Toyota cares more about their home market that others? Are they hoping to avoid a home market recall? Mitsubishi flap in Japan, several years ago... http://www.autosafety.org/safety-scandal-shames-mitsubishi Are you suggesting that Toyota had prior knowledge of CTS manufacturing faulty gas pedals and that is why the vehicles assembled in Japan used a different supplier? Seems like a stretch to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 That's a sticking point. There's been a long battle...the companies invest huge sums in their proprietary software, and independent shops want to access it to earn repair money from customers. Also, I read somewhere that insurance co. lawyers want to access the information, to see if the owner was speeding, and use that as a basis for claim denial. Good points Cincy! You would think that the NTSB would be able to access the info... Just having the company access it is VERY dangerous, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 It's fun to throw Toyota under the bus for this...except Ford (the only major US car company worth a ****) used the same supplier and has had to halt production of some of its vehicles too. Ford's not the big dog anymore... Toyota is. Sure Ford should get ripped, but now Toyota should be Ford's whipping boy. Comes with the turf JA. I see old habits (Eskimos don't buy fridges) are hard to die. Funny how people will protect some companies tooth and nail. Again... I don't think Ford whould NOT be under the gun also. But, Toyota is now the standard baearer for the industry, they shold totally be thrown under the Sienna more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Please don't be a Toyo apologist. Read up on their previous motor sludge problem, their truck lines with the rotting frames, and learn a bit about Toyota. And their blistering, arrogant ego. I'd like to hear from the supplier - how their profit margin was cut to the very bone, had to borrow cash for facilities to be one of their vertically-integrated keiretsu satellites, all the while having to wine 'n dine any Toyo swinging dick that showed up. This is a serious problem, and they dodged it for months. Now when they finally own up to it, you give them a pat on the back. Nice. Do you think Toyota shut down production lines (that costs 10K per minute per assembly plant - fixed costs, guaranteed wages, utilities demand and average daily usage basis billings, loan service, royalty payments for tooling etc.) just because they are nice guys? They are taking that step driven by worries about beau coup litigation. This is going to cost them a big bundle. Exactly why they delayed fessing up. Stop the obsequiousness... IMO, JA has a personal vandetta... Just IMO... He can't help it, you are arguing with a person that has a "blistering arrogant ego." Oh... I have been talking about the sludge problem for almost 13 years now... Don't you know, it is the driver's fault! 13 years!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 it'd be a no brainer for me since I drive stick I had a different problem with a fully loaded (nice leather seats, satellite radio) Ford Escape rental in 2009. On my way back to NH from Toronto, while going downhill on route 9 in VT the car shuts down on me while I'm doing 75mph. When I say shut down, I mean the dash lights all turned off and my hydraulics disappeared so stepping on the brakes did very little to stop the car. Rather than pee my pants, which I'm surprised I didn't do because this is a curvy downhill at a full 75 mph, I put the car into neutral, turned the key to the off position and then back on again. Nothing happened so I repeated the process. The second time I turned that key, I made a mistake and turned the wheel slightly also as I mentioned, this was a curvy road and the damn steering wheel locked into place. I remember getting ready to panic then when the dash lights all turned on and after jiggling the wheel when the key was in the On position, the wheel unlocked as well. Hydraulics were restored and somehow the engine also turned, which I didn't think you could do in an automatic as I thought you could only push start manuals. If it wasn't for this particular instance, I might be driving an F150 right now instead of the Tacoma. FWIW... I never owned a Ford or Toyota. I owned an Isuzu... But isn't that part GM's bastardized (linked somehow to Subaru too) love child...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Ford's not the big dog anymore... Toyota is. Sure Ford should get ripped, but now Toyota should be Ford's whipping boy. Comes with the turf JA. I see old habits (Eskimos don't buy fridges) are hard to die. Funny how people will protect some companies tooth and nail. Again... I don't think Ford whould NOT be under the gun also. But, Toyota is now the standard baearer for the industry, they shold totally be thrown under the Sienna more! I don't think Ford was ever the big boy--at least not in a long time. Toyota has a problem here--clearly. But given their long track record of quality and excellence--and their extreme reaction to this issue where no one was even hurt--I suspect consumers aren't falling for the "See, all Toyotas have always sucked" line. I (or my wife) have only ever owned 2 Toyota products. Both were excellent. I've owned 3 Hondas that were lower level models than the Toyotas but they were excellent too. I am not married to Japan though. I've owned American and German cars. When I go to buy a car, I approach it with a completely open mind. I read everything I can find. I test drive at least 5 cars...last time I test drove 7. So I'm not a Japan apologist and in fact last year considered buying American for the first time in a long time but in the end did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 But given their long track record of quality and excellence That is a myth above... All cars are basically the same... Have been for alomst 25 years. I have owned nothing but Chyrslers for a long time, not one problem... Now the Isuzu ddid have problems. Not saying that Toyotas suck... They are just not mythical. They have been having their sludging problems for years... They used to be rust/rot buckets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Are you suggesting that Toyota had prior knowledge of CTS manufacturing faulty gas pedals and that is why the vehicles assembled in Japan used a different supplier? Seems like a stretch to me. Doesn't seem like a stretch to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Not sure if this had been posted in this thread yet. Honda recall: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100129/bs_nm/us_honda_recall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Toyota May Have Fix For Recall Woes In an e-mail to employees, the automaker reported that it figured out how to solve the problem and had presented the potential solution to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The company said on its website that engineers were working constantly to correct the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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