Wilson from Gamehendge Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Folks...nobody knows if there will or will not be a "stud" left tackle at pick #41. Some team could end up with a "stud" left tackle at pick #91, for all we or anybody else knows. What defines a "stud?" To me, I would rather get a guy that is GOING TO BE a "stud", rather than get a guy who is known as a "stud" RIGHT NOW. Take for instance Mike Williams. Came out of college as a "stud" and wound up a "dud." On the other hand, Jason Peters came out of college as a no-name, overweight tight end...the Bills found him, developed him, and he turned into a...ehhh, for the sake of argument, nevermind. Let's take Jared Gaither. He was not a very well-known product at Maryland while in college. He lost his eligibility, came out in the Supplementary Draft in 2007, and was drafted in the 5th round by the Ravens. Why? Not because he was a "stud" then, but because Ozzie Newsome and the Baltimore Ravens KNEW HE WAS GOING TO BE A "STUD." THAT is our problem. Up until now, and I will wait to see with this regime, we have not had anybody who could decipher whether or not a player would be a legit athlete, an "all-pro" somewhere down the line. We tend to fall in love with the big name guys who other teams seem to let slide, because they know that player will flame out. *Jared Gaither may become expendable with Michael Oher in Baltimore, he is a RFA...I would see what it takes to get him. If he could be had for a 1st round pick, I would get him instead of the unproven rookie. I have "heard" Gaither being compared to Ogden during games before. The guy is going to be 24 in a few months, stands 6'9 and is the tallest player in the NFL. He has great agility, is a beastly force in the run game and is a good pass blocker as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Gaither Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 No one can "decipher" whether a player will be legit or not. Drafting is a crapshoot. Always has been. "Can't miss" prospects have missed and late rounders have turned into Pro Bowlers. Drafting is like 30% scouting and 70% luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 No one can "decipher" whether a player will be legit or not. Drafting is a crapshoot. Always has been. "Can't miss" prospects have missed and late rounders have turned into Pro Bowlers. Drafting is like 30% scouting and 70% luck. Wouldn't that be the difference between good and average scouting teams. The good scouting teams would tend to have luck on there side more or maybe thay are just more skillful. Some teams tend to scout certain positions better as well. Baltimore and Pittsburgh through out the years have been great with mid round LB's but drafting QB's was an achilles heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Wouldn't that be the difference between good and average scouting teams. The good scouting teams would tend to have luck on there side more or maybe thay are just more skillful. Some teams tend to scout certain positions better as well. Baltimore and Pittsburgh through out the years have been great with mid round LB's but drafting QB's was an achilles heel. It's so hit-or-miss though. All teams draft busts and find hidden gems. I think it's also about draft philosophy. Drafting to fill needs and favoring positional value is smart, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I remember a lot of people pulling for Gaitner during that supplemental draft, and then some outrage when we could have gotten him for a 5th. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pygskin36 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 No one can "decipher" whether a player will be legit or not. Drafting is a crapshoot. Always has been. "Can't miss" prospects have missed and late rounders have turned into Pro Bowlers. Drafting is like 30% scouting and 70% luck. The problems arise when you change scemes or don't have coaches to bring young player along... We drafted players for Gregg Williams.. by the time they were getting better, we was gone.. Like right now, Kyle Williams has really matured as a young player.. if Jim Bates is the DC, he'd never fit the system... We'd have vertually no DLine with a 3-4 and our backers would be a mess (one would argue thats the case for any sceme with this LB talent) That's why this 4 coaches in 10 years f'd us us so bad.. we can't draft talent to fit what we want to do... basically because we don't stay with anything.. we don't stay with anything because we make bad choices and the coach looks bad... I truly believe McNally made Peters what he was.. Once McNally left, Peters was never quite the same. Every time I saw him this year, he was getting blown up or hurt... that reminds me a lot of his last year here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 What defines a "stud?" Ask Travis Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 Drafting is a crapshoot. That is really what I was trying to get at. Nobody can say ALL the good LT's will be taken in the 1st round...because we could find 1 in the 7th round...or, undrafted for that matter. I truly believe McNally made Peters what he was.. Once McNally left, Peters was never quite the same. I agree 100%...McNally got the best out of big ole' J.P. Ask Travis Henry. Ask him what? How to knock up 7 different women, in 11 different states? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I remember a lot of people pulling for Gaitner during that supplemental draft, and then some outrage when we could have gotten him for a 5th. Ugh. Yep, I was one of em. Simply awful that we would not spend a 4th on a 6'9" 3 year starter at LT in the supplemental draft. I wonder if the Bills front office even knows the supplemental draft exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Folks...nobody knows if there will or will not be a "stud" left tackle at pick #41. Some team could end up with a "stud" left tackle at pick #91, for all we or anybody else knows. What defines a "stud?" To me, I would rather get a guy that is GOING TO BE a "stud", rather than get a guy who is known as a "stud" RIGHT NOW. Take for instance Mike Williams. Came out of college as a "stud" and wound up a "dud." On the other hand, Jason Peters came out of college as a no-name, overweight tight end...the Bills found him, developed him, and he turned into a...ehhh, for the sake of argument, nevermind. Let's take Jared Gaither. He was not a very well-known product at Maryland while in college. He lost his eligibility, came out in the Supplementary Draft in 2007, and was drafted in the 5th round by the Ravens. Why? Not because he was a "stud" then, but because Ozzie Newsome and the Baltimore Ravens KNEW HE WAS GOING TO BE A "STUD." THAT is our problem. Up until now, and I will wait to see with this regime, we have not had anybody who could decipher whether or not a player would be a legit athlete, an "all-pro" somewhere down the line. We tend to fall in love with the big name guys who other teams seem to let slide, because they know that player will flame out. *Jared Gaither may become expendable with Michael Oher in Baltimore, he is a RFA...I would see what it takes to get him. If he could be had for a 1st round pick, I would get him instead of the unproven rookie. I have "heard" Gaither being compared to Ogden during games before. The guy is going to be 24 in a few months, stands 6'9 and is the tallest player in the NFL. He has great agility, is a beastly force in the run game and is a good pass blocker as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Gaither Actually, if you take a look at the lineman we have taken in the first two or three rounds, the "big name" guys, you'll find that most of the best lineman we have ever had were drafted pretty highly. Reggie McKenzie was taken with the first pick in the second round of the 1972 draft. Joe D. was taken in the second round with the 26th pick in the draft in 1973. Ken Jones and Joe Devlin were both taken in the second round of the 1976 draft. Jim Richter was our first round pick in 1980, taken with the 16th pick. Will Woolford was taken in the first round with the 20th pick in 1986. John Fina was a frist round pick in 1992. Ruben Brown was our top pick, 14th overall, in the 1995 draft. It is a bit early but so far, the reviews on Wood and Levitre are promising. Really, about the only time taking a lineman early hasn't worked is Mike Williams. Sure, everyonce in awhile you find gold under a rock like Peters but the surer path is to find evaluate people as best you can and don't be afraid to use a first or second round pick on offensive lineman. More than anything the lesson is that second tier free agents won't work. Walker, Dockery and Fowler are just a few examples of that foolishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Actually, if you take a look at the lineman we have taken in the first two or three rounds, the "big name" guys, you'll find that most of the best lineman we have ever had were drafted pretty highly. Reggie McKenzie was taken with the first pick in the second round of the 1972 draft. Joe D. was taken in the second round with the 26th pick in the draft in 1973. Ken Jones and Joe Devlin were both taken in the second round of the 1976 draft. Jim Richter was our first round pick in 1980, taken with the 16th pick. Will Woolford was taken in the first round with the 20th pick in 1986. John Fina was a frist round pick in 1992. Ruben Brown was our top pick, 14th overall, in the 1995 draft. It is a bit early but so far, the reviews on Wood and Levitre are promising. Really, about the only time taking a lineman early hasn't worked is Mike Williams. Sure, everyonce in awhile you find gold under a rock like Peters but the surer path is to find evaluate people as best you can and don't be afraid to use a first or second round pick on offensive lineman. More than anything the lesson is that second tier free agents won't work. Walker, Dockery and Fowler are just a few examples of that foolishness. McCargo, and Preston worked for the Bills? Right now, I agree, I would rather bringing in someone with some NFL experience to play LT just because the line is so young and inexperienced already, adding another rookie to start isn't going to help much right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 The knock on Gaither has been that he's so tall that it's hard for him to bend enough to get "under" the oncoming DE without losing leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishouldbegm Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 No one can "decipher" whether a player will be legit or not. Drafting is a crapshoot. Always has been. "Can't miss" prospects have missed and late rounders have turned into Pro Bowlers. Drafting is like 30% scouting and 70% luck. why would people get paid so much if all that lucky was involved? more like 90% scouting and 10% luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 Actually, if you take a look at the lineman we have taken in the first two or three rounds, the "big name" guys, you'll find that most of the best lineman we have ever had were drafted pretty highly. Reggie McKenzie was taken with the first pick in the second round of the 1972 draft. Joe D. was taken in the second round with the 26th pick in the draft in 1973. Ken Jones and Joe Devlin were both taken in the second round of the 1976 draft. Jim Richter was our first round pick in 1980, taken with the 16th pick. Will Woolford was taken in the first round with the 20th pick in 1986. John Fina was a frist round pick in 1992. Ruben Brown was our top pick, 14th overall, in the 1995 draft. It is a bit early but so far, the reviews on Wood and Levitre are promising. Really, about the only time taking a lineman early hasn't worked is Mike Williams. Sure, everyonce in awhile you find gold under a rock like Peters but the surer path is to find evaluate people as best you can and don't be afraid to use a first or second round pick on offensive lineman. More than anything the lesson is that second tier free agents won't work. Walker, Dockery and Fowler are just a few examples of that foolishness. Ok, so you gave me 0, ZERO, examples of a O-lineman that was drafted in the top-10, where we will draft this year. Then you validated my point by giving examples of linemen the Bills have found beyond the 1st round. excellent work smithers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Folks...nobody knows if there will or will not be a "stud" left tackle at pick #41. Some team could end up with a "stud" left tackle at pick #91, for all we or anybody else knows. What defines a "stud?" To me, I would rather get a guy that is GOING TO BE a "stud", rather than get a guy who is known as a "stud" RIGHT NOW. Take for instance Mike Williams. Came out of college as a "stud" and wound up a "dud." On the other hand, Jason Peters came out of college as a no-name, overweight tight end...the Bills found him, developed him, and he turned into a...ehhh, for the sake of argument, nevermind. Let's take Jared Gaither. He was not a very well-known product at Maryland while in college. He lost his eligibility, came out in the Supplementary Draft in 2007, and was drafted in the 5th round by the Ravens. Why? Not because he was a "stud" then, but because Ozzie Newsome and the Baltimore Ravens KNEW HE WAS GOING TO BE A "STUD." THAT is our problem. Up until now, and I will wait to see with this regime, we have not had anybody who could decipher whether or not a player would be a legit athlete, an "all-pro" somewhere down the line. We tend to fall in love with the big name guys who other teams seem to let slide, because they know that player will flame out. *Jared Gaither may become expendable with Michael Oher in Baltimore, he is a RFA...I would see what it takes to get him. If he could be had for a 1st round pick, I would get him instead of the unproven rookie. I have "heard" Gaither being compared to Ogden during games before. The guy is going to be 24 in a few months, stands 6'9 and is the tallest player in the NFL. He has great agility, is a beastly force in the run game and is a good pass blocker as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Gaither Okay, you've got "First." Now, what is your "second." In fact, what is your point? What "mistruths" are you talking about? Are you seriously saying that what we need to do is draft a guy who will be good rather than a guy who won't. That is your point? Because I agree, but it's roughly like saying "The mistruth is that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. In fact, it rises in the east and sets in the west." Who would disagree, and who ever used your "mistruth"? Oh, and why would Gaither be available? Right now the Ravens have terrific right and left tackles. Teams are generally very happy indeed when that happens. When Oher played LT due to Gaither's injury this year, he wasn't very good. Excpect those two to be a tandem for years to come, and Oher to be a career RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 McCargo, and Preston worked for the Bills? Right now, I agree, I would rather bringing in someone with some NFL experience to play LT just because the line is so young and inexperienced already, adding another rookie to start isn't going to help much right now Neither McCargo, being a defensive lineman, nor Preston, being a fourth-round pick, is germane to this discussion of highly drafted offensive lineman. But you know what is germane? Based on that list of Bills greats, it seems like the 2nd round has worked out great for us in terms of o-linemen. Something to keep in mind for all you "MUST DRAFT O-LINE IN THE FIRST ROUND" folks. You can get good ones in other rounds. Frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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