Did Mike Leach really find it necessary

[The Senator]

I don't see how being forced to stand in the tool shed, in the dark, by your self teaches you about teamwork or helps you learn about your playing abilities. People in authority that try and teach their charges "lessons" through intimidation should realize that the only lesson that teaches is that the person with the power makes the rules.

You just don't seem to have much concern or regard for facts, do you?

 

1) As can be easily ascertained by the plethora of actual video footage of said 'tool shed', it was a rather large outbuilding adjacent the practice field, with running water, an ice machine, ventilation fans, and a 20'ceiling;

 

2) The rather wide overhead garage door was completely open during the 1-2 hours James was inside, under the supervision of 3 licensed physical trainers;

 

3) Just FYI, the lock on that equipment building's overhead door - which, as previously stated, was fully open - was broken;

 

4) It was not "dark" - due to the rather large and wide overhead door being fully opened, there was more than adequate light;

 

5) Adam James was not forced to stand - he was found, at various times, sipping drinks while sitting on the floor talking and texting on his cell phone and - at one point - napping on the floor.

 

Any other unsubstantiated bull-st you'd like to throw out there?

[Ramius]

$$$$$. Contentious contract negotiations last year, and he's never exactly been one to discourage having his name linked to openings at the big-name schools. Some in the TTU administration didn't care for that. Doesn't have anything to do with the details of this incident, but as previously noted by others here, if someone was already looking for an excuse to run him off ...

 

Word also was that he didn't go through the appropriate channels with TTU admin regarding "interest" in the other jobs. He kinda did things on his own and didn't involve the school as much as they'd have liked.

[The Senator]

NO! Really?

It's true. I may have even mentioned once or twice that I wouldn't mind seeing him with the Bills.

[thebug]

It's true. I may have even mentioned once or twice that I wouldn't mind seeing him with the Bills.

 

 

if it would shut you up about him, I would be ok with him being a Bill.

[The Senator]

if it would shut you up about him, I would be ok with him being a Bill.

Deal! I will shut up about him when he joins the Bills, preferably as HC.

 

Until then, uninformed Leach-bashers might do well to read some for the emails regarding Adam James, from former Texas Tech QB Graham Harrell, receivers coach Lincoln Riley, strength & conditioning coach Bennie Wylie, fellow Texas Tech WR Eric Morris, former TT receivers coach Dana Holgorsen, et al...

 

 

Before Adam James ever entered the football locker room at Texas Tech I heard how spoiled and selfish he acted in a team atmosphere from many of my baseball friends. Adam was on the baseball team his true freshman year at Tech, before he ever joined the football team, and did not make it through the baseball season because of his selfish attitude. After a baseball game in which he felt like he did not get enough playing time, but the team still won twenty to one, he came into the locker room after the game and “pouted and threw a big fit” according another player on the baseball team. A few weeks later in the middle of the season, he just stopped showing up to practices or game and quit because he was not happy about how he was being treated. One of my roommates was a baseball player on the team and many of my friends were a part of the team that witnessed all of this. These baseball players told me he was “spoiled and selfish” before he ever came to the football team. After quitting baseball he came out for football and his selfish attitude was very evident, as was his laziness. During off-season workouts he often would be caught skipping lifts in the weight room or finding ways to cut corners/get out of conditioning exercises. When we had player organized seven on seven throwing in the summer, when he would show up he was much more interested in playing his own games on the side of the field or telling people that he wasn’t going to run any routes because the coaches do not get him a “fair opportunity” anyway. During the season he was often “injured” (it usually seemed like a very minor injury that could keep him out of practice but never out of any other activity, including games) so he would not participate in some drills in practice.

 

- former TT QB Graham Harrell

 

 

During the last two years of being the inside receivers coach, I have had the chance to learn alot about Adam James. He came to Tech because of one person: Coach Leach. Although we adamently doubted his talent, we as coaches came to see that Adam actually had enough talent to help us out. The problem, though, is that Adam is unusually lazy and entitled...I have always been worried about Adam's effect on my other players because of his weak and conceited ttitude. recently found out that Adam deliberately undermined my authority on many occasions...He has an unvelievable sense of entitlement because of who his father is; one that hurts himself and people around him. Adam is the kind of person thatakes excuses or blames people for things that go wrong in his life.

 

- TT Inside Receivers Coach Lincoln Riley

 

 

Two practices before Adam James claimed he had a concussion, Coach Leach and I were forced to discipline him for poor effort from the previous practice and poor effort during the early drills of that day. This has been a common theme about Adam's work ethic and attitude during his entire career. Adam, along with two other receivers that were also unsatisfactory, was sent to run stadium steps with Bennie Wylie. After the practice, Bennie made it very clear to Coach Leach and I that Adam was a complete "jerk" while he was being punished. After talking with Adam after the practice, it was very clear to me that Adam did not agree with the punishment and believed that we were just mis-asessing his effort. He complained to me that we were not doing our jobs as coaches and that his effort was just fine, all of which is very typical of him to say. By comparison, the other receiver that we punished agreed that his effort wasn't his best and had a good attitude with Bennie and also in meeting with me after practice. It's just another example of Adam thinking that he knows more about coaching than people who have been coaching for their entire lives. I have no doubt that anger from this led to where we are today with this situation and is his way of trying to "get back" at us coaches.

 

- TT Inside Receivers Coach Lincoln Riley

 

 

Two days prior to the incident in question, I disciplined Adam James along with several other recievers. His attitude was poor the entire time; even with constant plees for improvement. By the end of the practice, a few of the other recievers accepted their lack of performance in the previous practice and worked harder. Adam was not one of these individuals. He was last on all the excercises asked to do and talked and "danced" during the discipline. When told that this was unacceptable, he simply shrugged his shoulders. I continued to encourge him with no success.

 

- TT Head Strength & Conditioning Coach Bernie Wylie

 

 

You can find out a lot about a person after playing three years of college football with them. Adam James was a teammate of mine from 2006-2009. Ever since the day he arrived on the Texas Tech campus you couldn’t help but to feel a negative energy from him. He expected people to baby him and that he was going make it solely on the fact that his father was a very successful player...Adam was never known as a hard worker. I can honestly agree with this because we played the same position and I witnessed his laziness on a daily bases. Adam seemed to have a negative attitude towards the football program the majority of the time. That negative energy is never good for a team and can cause some major problems on and off the field. During practices, Adam always tried to get by with doing the least he possibly could. Never do I once remember Adam to be excited or enthusiastic to be out there. It was almost like he was playing the game of football to please someone other than himself.

 

- former fellow TT Receiver Eric Morris

 

 

I was the inside receiver coach at Texas Tech when we made the decision the sign Adam James in January of 2007. Adam had no offers to play NCAA D1 football during and after his Senior year. After a conversation between Coach Leach and Adams father Craig, Coach Leach acquired a brief highlight tape of Adam and made the decision to take him as a scholarship student athlete. I was opposed to doing so in belief he was not a D1 football player. Coach Leach overrode my opinion and Adam became a Red Raider. During the rest of my time at Texas Tech I was Adams position coach where I always remained critical of Adams ability to play at this level due to being lazy in not only the classroom but also in the off season and during practice. Coach Leach was the one who kept saying he believed Adam would eventually contribute. Adams teammates believed he was selfish and were constantly getting onto him for lack of effort as they sensed entitlement on his part due to his father being a very good football player.

 

- former TT Inside Receivers Coach Dana Holgorsen

 

 

Link - CBS Sports: Dennis Dodd, Dodds and Ends - E-mails in support of Mike Leach

[buffaloaggie]

You just don't seem to have much concern or regard for facts, do you?

 

1) As can be easily ascertained by the plethora of actual video footage of said 'tool shed', it was a rather large outbuilding adjacent the practice field, with running water, an ice machine, ventilation fans, and a 20'ceiling;

 

2) The rather wide overhead garage door was completely open during the 1-2 hours James was inside, under the supervision of 3 licensed physical trainers;

 

3) Just FYI, the lock on that equipment building's overhead door - which, as previously stated, was fully open - was broken;

 

4) It was not "dark" - due to the rather large and wide overhead door being fully opened, there was more than adequate light;

 

5) Adam James was not forced to stand - he was found, at various times, sipping drinks while sitting on the floor talking and texting on his cell phone and - at one point - napping on the floor.

 

Any other unsubstantiated bull-st you'd like to throw out there?

I can only laugh when you state that others have no concern or regards for the facts.

 

The facts

 

The latest statement to come out from the TT head trainer:

 

On Dec. 21, Pincock spoke with Tech officials, telling them that he did not agree with that "form of treatment for anyone" and that Leach "wanted James to be uncomfortable."

 

Leach is an absolute liar about looking out for James. He was out to embarrass the kid and not to make him comfortable.

 

I agree Tech did not appreciate Leach and understand there was plenty of friction between the two sides, but plain and simple, this could have been avoided with an apology. Leach did not want to do it, whether because he was bull headed, or HE wanted the differences between the two sides to be magnified. I can only speculate, but the blame does go to Leach in this matter. There appears to be embellishment from one side (James) and lies and spin from the other (Leach and his lawyer).

[Lori]

Hmmm. Dueling affadavits:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...s.3c1e5b98.html

[Mike in Syracuse]

A bunch of Mike Leach ballwashing

 

I seem to remember that crusades are a no no on TBD. Your obsession with Leach has gone WAY beyond a crusade. For the sanity of everyone involved could you please stop licking this guys sack.

[The Senator]

.

[The Senator]

I can only laugh when you state that others have no concern or regards for the facts.

 

The facts

 

The latest statement to come out from the TT head trainer:

 

On Dec. 21, Pincock spoke with Tech officials, telling them that he did not agree with that "form of treatment for anyone" and that Leach "wanted James to be uncomfortable."

 

Leach is an absolute liar about looking out for James. He was out to embarrass the kid and not to make him comfortable.

 

I agree Tech did not appreciate Leach and understand there was plenty of friction between the two sides, but plain and simple, this could have been avoided with an apology. Leach did not want to do it, whether because he was bull headed, or HE wanted the differences between the two sides to be magnified. I can only speculate, but the blame does go to Leach in this matter. There appears to be embellishment from one side (James) and lies and spin from the other (Leach and his lawyer).

 

Interesting that your 'source' for the 'facts' is ESPN - which also happens to be the original source of the ridiculous 'locked in an electrical closet' story and also happens to be Craig James' employer.

 

Equally 'interesting' is your choice of verbage - James' side = "embellishment", while Leach's version = "lies and spin".

 

From such an obviously biased interpretation, I can only assume that you and Aggies everywhere are still 'pissed' over this...

 

[The Senator]

Hmmm. Dueling affadavits:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...s.3c1e5b98.html

Obviously both sides are going to be highly 'selective' in what they choose to release prior to any legal proceedings but, as a public institution, anyone can file a records request under the Texas Public Information Act to obtain all of the relevant information from Texas Tech, and you can be sure that will be done.

 

I find it ironic that the only reason Adam James was offered a scholarship to Texas Tech (he had no other Div. 1A scholarship offers) is that, after a conversation with Craig James, Leach overruled his own position coaches who were unanimous in the opinion that James was definitely not a Div. 1A caliber athlete.

 

These guys (the James Gang) have Leach to thank for the opportunity - then they go a stab the guy in the back.

[thebug]

Obviously both sides are going to be highly 'selective' in what they choose to release prior to any legal proceedings but, as a public institution, anyone can file a records request under the Texas Public Information Act to obtain all of the relevant information from Texas Tech, and you can be sure that will be done.

 

I find it ironic that the only reason Adam James was offered a scholarship to Texas Tech (he had no other Div. 1A scholarship offers) is that, after a conversation with Craig James, Leach overruled his own position coaches who were unanimous in the opinion that James was definitely not a Div. 1A caliber athlete.

 

These guys (the James Gang) have Leach to thank for the opportunity - then they go a stab the guy in the back.

 

 

You did not just admit that Leach made a mistake. That is the first step. I am kinda interested in this thing now and await the facts to come out.

[The Senator]

You did not just admit that Leach made a mistake. That is the first step. I am kinda interested in this thing now and await the facts to come out.

 

Leach's attorneys:

 

Link - Smith & Liggett, P.C.

 

(Watch out, TT - these guys remind me a bit of Crane Poole & Scmidt )

 

 

 

Leach's statement:

 

“I want everyone to know what a privilege and pleasure it has been to teach and coach more than 400 student-athletes at Texas Tech University over the past 10 years. When I arrived at Texas Tech, the football program was on NCAA probation and the graduation rate was far below the national average. However, in the past 10 years, Tech has been to 10 straight bowl games, has the third best record in the Big 12 Conference, and has the highest graduation rate for football players of any public institution in the country.

 

Over the past several months, there have been individuals in the Texas Tech administration, Board of Regents and booster groups who have dealt in lies, and continue to do so. These lies have led to my firing this morning. I steadfastly refuse to deal in any lies, and am disappointed that I have not been afforded the opportunity for the truth to be known. Texas Tech’s decision to deal in lies and fabricate a story which led to my firing, includes, but is not limited by, the animosity remaining from last year’s contract negotiations. I will not tolerate such retaliatory action; additionally, we will pursue all available legal remedies.

 

These actions taken by Texas Tech have severely damaged my reputation and public image. In addition, Texas Tech has caused harm to not only my family, but to the entire Red Raider nation and the sport of college football.

 

As you know, I prefer to engage in question and answer sessions; however, in this instance my counsel has advised me to simply make a statement. There will be time to answer questions about this issue in the future, but the serious legal nature of this situation prevents me from going into further detail at this time.”

[zazie]

I seem to remember that crusades are a no no on TBD. Your obsession with Leach has gone WAY beyond a crusade. For the sanity of everyone involved could you please stop licking this guys sack.

Whiole I agree wiht Leach 100% in his spat with the James's and TT, I agree also with Mike in Syracuse Seanators ongoing obsession with Mike LEach is absolutely WAY over the top.

[zazie]

 

Leach's attorneys:

 

Link - Smith & Liggett, P.C.

 

(Watch out, TT - these guys remind me a bit of Crane Poole & Scmidt )

 

 

 

Leach's statement:

 

“I want everyone to know what a privilege and pleasure it has been to teach and coach more than 400 student-athletes at Texas Tech University over the past 10 years. When I arrived at Texas Tech, the football program was on NCAA probation and the graduation rate was far below the national average. However, in the past 10 years, Tech has been to 10 straight bowl games, has the third best record in the Big 12 Conference, and has the highest graduation rate for football players of any public institution in the country.

Over the past several months, there have been individuals in the Texas Tech administration, Board of Regents and booster groups who have dealt in lies, and continue to do so. These lies have led to my firing this morning. I steadfastly refuse to deal in any lies, and am disappointed that I have not been afforded the opportunity for the truth to be known. Texas Tech’s decision to deal in lies and fabricate a story which led to my firing, includes, but is not limited by, the animosity remaining from last year’s contract negotiations. I will not tolerate such retaliatory action; additionally, we will pursue all available legal remedies.

 

These actions taken by Texas Tech have severely damaged my reputation and public image. In addition, Texas Tech has caused harm to not only my family, but to the entire Red Raider nation and the sport of college football.

 

As you know, I prefer to engage in question and answer sessions; however, in this instance my counsel has advised me to simply make a statement. There will be time to answer questions about this issue in the future, but the serious legal nature of this situation prevents me from going into further detail at this time.”

 

Well that right there is the most important thing about Coach Leach. He wins and then makes guys be accountable for the rest of the college experience too, knowing that almost none of them will be abole to make a living in football after their time on the team.

 

Really.

 

Coach Leach should find a new gig quickly and I congratulate all the players that DID graduate under Leachs tutelage/program that likely would NOT have graduated in some other D1 programs.

 

While I love Syracuse BB, coach there could certainly take a page out of Leachs playbook when it comes to helping these kids with the balance of ther real lives, once their usefullness to him as players is over.

 

Leach does right by his kids and by society also.

 

I hope he gets them good with his lawsuit.

 

The James family (along with the Bush family) will continue to bring shame to the state of Texas until ESPN fires this idiot and Adam is where he belongs, working for his dad doing useless stuff and pretending to contribute.

[The Senator]

Well that right there is the most important thing about Coach Leach. He wins and then makes guys be accountable for the rest of the college experience too, knowing that almost none of them will be abole to make a living in football after their time on the team.

 

Really.

 

Coach Leach should find a new gig quickly and I congratulate all the players that DID graduate under Leachs tutelage/program that likely would NOT have graduated in some other D1 programs.

 

While I love Syracuse BB, coach there could certainly take a page out of Leachs playbook when it comes to helping these kids with the balance of ther real lives, once their usefullness to him as players is over.

 

Leach does right by his kids and by society also.

 

I hope he gets them good with his lawsuit.

 

The James family (along with the Bush family) will continue to bring shame to the state of Texas until ESPN fires this idiot and Adam is where he belongs, working for his dad doing useless stuff and pretending to contribute.

 

Well said, zazie.

 

Certainly former TT All-American tackle Rylan Reed knows both sides of Coach Leach - his relentless hard pushing of his players in pursuit of excellence, and his commitment to their academic well-being. He also has some experience with how Leach dealt with serious injury...

 

To whom it may concern:

 

As a player under coach Leach, I have experienced some of the most memorable moments of my life in which I am very grateful for. As I stated I am a former Red Raider that played for Mike Leach and got to know him well over my four years as a Red Raider. I admire the professionalism and dedication Mike had for the game, the university and his players. He always demanded the best from each of us and we became better players and people for it. Although he pushed his players and coaches to be the best, his decisions and actions were always consistent with maintaining the program’s integrity and were in the best interest of his players. As a player, my commitment to the team was based on the trust I had developed in Coach Leach as a leader who would always put his players and his team in the best possible position for success. As a result of his guidance and coaching, in combination with my own hard work, I was able to overcome great adversity to become an All-American tackle.

 

A couple of bowl games ago in the Gator Bowl, I suffered a severe injury to my lower left leg in which took a lot of support from family, friends, fans, coach’s, teammates and most importantly coach Leach to get me back. It was a long road to recovery that took careful attention from trainers during practices, and Leach was always checking to make sure that I was OK. During camp, oftentimes I had to practice one day and then take a day off because of soreness. Coach Leach was very understanding, always had my best interest in mind at all times, and I will always be appreciative of that.

 

Another incident that occurred was after my pro day in which I hurt my knee and my dream of playing in the NFL quickly came to a halt so I went home to rehab with two semesters left from graduating. I was able to get a job and start working, but quickly realized that to get the dream job in the real world that I always wanted, it would take getting my degree from Texas Tech. When I got home from work one day, I got a phone call from coach Leach asking, if they were able to get some paper work filled out, would I be willing to come back to school to finish my degree, and of course I said yes. I am proud to say that, as a result of coach Leach’s influence, I will finish my degree from Texas Tech in May 2010. If that does not show how coach Leach cares for his players, then I do not know what does.

 

The allegations against coach Leach are not consistent with the standards and beliefs that he has for himself and the University of Texas Tech. He has always been fair and respectful to my teammates and I. I was very saddened to hear that someone could try to take away all that he has done for this university, players and fans. I hope that you take this into consideration, and I also would be willing to further discuss anything in detail in person or by phone.

 

Sincerely,

 

Rylan Reed

 

(link)

 

You can bet these guys are going to line up to testify on behalf of Leach, should Texas Tech be stupid enough to let this go to trial.

 

 

(And, BTW, for those accusing me of crusading - please note well that I am not the originator of this thread and, for the most part, have merely responded with factual corrections, rebutted blatantly false statements, and provided outside, third-party commentary supporting an opposing view of the original poster et al. Sorry if you don't like it, but - as Billy Joel wrote - "We didn't start the fire.")

[zazie]

Well said, zazie.

 

Certainly former TT All-American tackle Rylan Reed knows both sides of Coach Leach - his relentless hard pushing of his players in pursuit of excellence, and his commitment to their academic well-being. He also has some experience with how Leach dealt with serious injury...

 

To whom it may concern:

 

As a player under coach Leach, I have experienced some of the most memorable moments of my life in which I am very grateful for. As I stated I am a former Red Raider that played for Mike Leach and got to know him well over my four years as a Red Raider. I admire the professionalism and dedication Mike had for the game, the university and his players. He always demanded the best from each of us and we became better players and people for it. Although he pushed his players and coaches to be the best, his decisions and actions were always consistent with maintaining the program’s integrity and were in the best interest of his players. As a player, my commitment to the team was based on the trust I had developed in Coach Leach as a leader who would always put his players and his team in the best possible position for success. As a result of his guidance and coaching, in combination with my own hard work, I was able to overcome great adversity to become an All-American tackle.

 

A couple of bowl games ago in the Gator Bowl, I suffered a severe injury to my lower left leg in which took a lot of support from family, friends, fans, coach’s, teammates and most importantly coach Leach to get me back. It was a long road to recovery that took careful attention from trainers during practices, and Leach was always checking to make sure that I was OK. During camp, oftentimes I had to practice one day and then take a day off because of soreness. Coach Leach was very understanding, always had my best interest in mind at all times, and I will always be appreciative of that.

 

Another incident that occurred was after my pro day in which I hurt my knee and my dream of playing in the NFL quickly came to a halt so I went home to rehab with two semesters left from graduating. I was able to get a job and start working, but quickly realized that to get the dream job in the real world that I always wanted, it would take getting my degree from Texas Tech. When I got home from work one day, I got a phone call from coach Leach asking, if they were able to get some paper work filled out, would I be willing to come back to school to finish my degree, and of course I said yes. I am proud to say that, as a result of coach Leach’s influence, I will finish my degree from Texas Tech in May 2010. If that does not show how coach Leach cares for his players, then I do not know what does.

 

The allegations against coach Leach are not consistent with the standards and beliefs that he has for himself and the University of Texas Tech. He has always been fair and respectful to my teammates and I. I was very saddened to hear that someone could try to take away all that he has done for this university, players and fans. I hope that you take this into consideration, and I also would be willing to further discuss anything in detail in person or by phone.

 

Sincerely,

 

Rylan Reed

 

(link)

 

You can bet these guys are going to line up to testify on behalf of Leach, should Texas Tech be stupid enough to let this go to trial.

 

 

(And, BTW, for those accusing me of crusading - please note well that I am not the originator of this thread and, for the most part, have merely responded with factual corrections, rebutted blatantly false statements, and provided outside, third-party commentary supporting an opposing view of the original poster et al. Sorry if you don't like it, but - as Billy Joel wrote - "We didn't start the fire.")

 

 

I think TT and the James's are havign a difficult time finding someone who has anything negative to say about Leach, or anything even remotely positive to say about Adam James.

 

wow, he must be despised, Adam James, by his (soon to be ex) team-mates.

[bills44]

I think TT and the James's are havign a difficult time finding someone who has anything negative to say about Leach, or anything even remotely positive to say about Adam James.

 

wow, he must be despised, Adam James, by his (soon to be ex) team-mates.

 

"I have no complaints about this decision. [Leach] put Adam [James] in a shed like an animal. Like an animal in a cage. That was bull," defensive lineman Chris Perry said. "You call other players. I think it was a good decision. We have our pep back now. We practice hard this week. We had less stress this week. You know why? Because he's gone."

 

Wide receiver Tramain Swindall said he supported the decision to fire Leach.

 

"I do agree and I'm supporting Adam and what he's doing because it's the right thing to do," Swindall told the AP in a telephone interview.

 

Swindall said he believes Leach was at times out of line in how he treated players.

 

"And so do most of the players," he said. "It wasn't just about Adam. It was always a negative vibe."

 

Said cornerback Taylor Charbonnet: "The players make this team, not one coach. As Adam's friend, I didn't like it at all what [Leach] did. He was my brother and I didn't agree with it. I don't know why [Leach] did that. But I know we are fully behind [interim] coach Ruffin [McNeill]. We love him and support him."

.

 

.

 

.

 

According to his affidavit, taken by representatives of the university on Dec. 21 and signed on Jan. 1, trainer Steve Pincock did not agree with the treatment and said he knew of no other player ever being placed in a similar room.

 

In releasing the affidavits from Pincock and treating physician Dr. Michael Phy, the university said, "After coach Leach's conflicting recent media accounts of the treatment of James, the university asked witnesses to sign affidavits attesting to their original statements."

 

Phy told university officials in his affidavit that James "may not have been harmed," but he "considered this practice inappropriate, and a deviation from the medical standard of care."

 

Here comes the spin....

[Adam]

My perspective continually changes on this- I don't think there are any good guys, only bad guys. I am very distressed by what the trainer said, about disagreeing, but feeling like he had to do what Leach told him. The trainer shouldn't have to do what the coach tells him to do- the coach should have no jurisdiction over the training/medical staff. Not at the college or pro level.

[Endzone Animal]

Verdict: Slam dunk - Leach is a douche who forced a concussed player to be locked in a small, dark room because he didn't like him or his dad. The affidavits of those directly involved leave no more room for rational argument. Case closed.