Max997 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 We should have never paid Peter's that kind of money....but we should have an actual plan to replace him. Not move a guy to LT...play him during camp....cut that guy....play a guy that has never taken a snap in the league at LT...have no one to back him up..... it was setup perfectly for the Bills...get the picks for Peters and draft Oher with the 11th pick but instead, the geniuses that they are draft an undersized DE that will never be an every down DE in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevergiveup Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 it was setup perfectly for the Bills...get the picks for Peters and draft Oher with the 11th pick but instead, the geniuses that they are draft an undersized DE that will never be an every down DE in the NFL You are correct, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 The thread isn't that bad. Like him or not, Peters represents a lot of what went wrong this year: poor management decisions. JP was our best Olineman. They didn't want to pay him (or L Walker) and traded away an asset. Then compounding the problem , they did not draft a replacement for him with their first pick. We see how great that turned out. Keep JP, draft Wood and Levitre, keep LW at RT and this season may have been very different. Pointing out how terrible of a choice the whole JP fiasco is turning out for the Bills is merely keeping the focus where it belongs: on how this half a$$ed organization needs to change before we can really ever be good again. They probably traded a wild card playoff appearance for something like $25M in immediate payroll savings/bonuses etc.. I'm not saying they would have been outstanding, but the final two entrants from the AFC are going to be schleps. Littman is very pleased. On the football side, getting rid of Dockery, Peters and Walker without proven replacements was an organization altering mistake. Yeah, Dockery and Walker were below average blockers statistically, but they were adequate pass blockers and combined with Peters/Levitre/Hangartner they probably would have allowed even captain checkdown to take advantage of Evans and Owens and stabilized the running game. Because they weren't there, the team couldn't take advantage of a soft schedule and build on that coveted "continuity". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 it was setup perfectly for the Bills...get the picks for Peters and draft Oher with the 11th pick but instead, the geniuses that they are draft an undersized DE that will never be an every down DE in the NFL You don't get ahead trading experienced young stars for a couple guys who are going to take 2-3 years to mature and THEN using your first round pick to draft another young guy who at best will reach the level of the traded player in 2-3 years. That's what a re-building team does. This team was in a make-or-break year. On the books they make a killing, on the field they went broke. (Of course, it's better to trade a good player than to just let them walk for nothing, which is the bigger mistake they typically have made during their decade of failure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 You don't get ahead trading experienced young stars for a couple guys who are going to take 2-3 years to mature and THEN using your first round pick to draft another young guy who at best will reach the level of the traded player in 2-3 years. That's what a re-building team does. This team was in a make-or-break year. On the books they make a killing, on the field they went broke. (Of course, it's better to trade a good player than to just let them walk for nothing, which is the bigger mistake they typically have made during their decade of failure) have you watched Oher play this year? he is on the same level as Peters if not better already...either way they would have a younger player who is only going to get better that is also making a lot less...not that this team has cap issues I hear what you are saying but they had no choice with Peters, he didnt want to be here and they got good value for him....we wouldnt even be talking about this if they drafted Oher...of course there would still be holes on the line but they would have a comparable tackle along with the other players they drafted with the picks they received for Peters the problem wasnt that they traded Peters it was that they never replaced him on the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 the problem wasnt that they traded Peters it was that they never replaced him on the roster /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 have you watched Oher play this year? he is on the same level as Peters if not better already...either way they would have a younger player who is only going to get better that is also making a lot less...not that this team has cap issues I hear what you are saying but they had no choice with Peters, he didnt want to be here and they got good value for him....we wouldnt even be talking about this if they drafted Oher...of course there would still be holes on the line but they would have a comparable tackle along with the other players they drafted with the picks they received for Peters the problem wasnt that they traded Peters it was that they never replaced him on the roster You don't often "replace" a Pro Bowl LT. Yeah, I've seen Oher. Seen him play college ball too. Would have made a nice bookend with Peters. No contest, a much more valuable piece of the puzzle than guys like Wood and Levitre. Problem is, you orgainzational defenders don't seem to see the big picture. The whole Peters fiasco is the culmination of a decade of spiralling into irrelevance. Treating star players like Pat Williams or Jason Peters like they are no better than anyone else is the norm here. You aren't going to win big like that in todays NFL, and you certainly aren't going to get off the mat if you are trying to build your way out of the cellar like the Bills. The next step is a guy like Schobel talking about retiring out of frustration. Schobel isn't a Tony Gonzalez, stat hungy, celebrity hungy player. When well compensated lunchpail guys can't put up with the organizational nonsense things are nearing rock bottom. But again, if he retires we wouldn't have had any "choice". Excuses, excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBillsDrive Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 We didn't lose anything. He was terrible on the Bills. And terrible players get selected to go to the Pro Bowl twice He wasn't a perfect model citizen, but was he really "terrible"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 He let his top 5 QB almost get knocked out cold on a blindside sack too. They can keep him. I still don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBillsDrive Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 He let his top 5 QB almost get knocked out cold on a blindside sack too. They can keep him. I still don't care. And our Jello O-line this year gives up a sack on every 9 pass attempts Indianapolis allows a sack on every 53 pass attempts Until we get a half decent O-line, it will be tough for the Bills to even remotely be considered a playoff contender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 You don't often "replace" a Pro Bowl LT. Yeah, I've seen Oher. Seen him play college ball too. Would have made a nice bookend with Peters. No contest, a much more valuable piece of the puzzle than guys like Wood and Levitre. Problem is, you orgainzational defenders don't seem to see the big picture. The whole Peters fiasco is the culmination of a decade of spiralling into irrelevance. Treating star players like Pat Williams or Jason Peters like they are no better than anyone else is the norm here. You aren't going to win big like that in todays NFL, and you certainly aren't going to get off the mat if you are trying to build your way out of the cellar like the Bills. The next step is a guy like Schobel talking about retiring out of frustration. Schobel isn't a Tony Gonzalez, stat hungy, celebrity hungy player. When well compensated lunchpail guys can't put up with the organizational nonsense things are nearing rock bottom. But again, if he retires we wouldn't have had any "choice". Excuses, excuses. how exactly am I an orgainzational defender when I am ripping the team for screwing up the draft?...yeah that makes perfect sense we are talking about Peters, not the past 10 years and certainly not Pat Williams....why dont you try and pay attention to the topic at hand and what is being said before putting on your internet tough guy act Peters was and still is severely overrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 how exactly am I an orgainzational defender when I am ripping the team for screwing up the draft?...yeah that makes perfect sense we are talking about Peters, not the past 10 years and certainly not Pat Williams....why dont you try and pay attention to the topic at hand and what is being said before putting on your internet tough guy act Peters was and still is severely overrated For every bad move, there are defenders. The first rule of management is that it's always managements fault. The Bills, like a lot of their fans would rather point fingers elsewhere. And as for Pat, trust me, there were a lot of people gladly waving goodbye to Pat Williams because he was speaking out against the savior Donahoe and because in week 17 the Steelers backups ran for 200+ yards against Williams and Adams. In fact, Williams was actually flapping his mouth during that week leading up to the game. It was "good riddance Fat Pat", "he's too old", "he's not worth the money", "Ron Edwards is good ENOUGH". Three years from now, when Peters is still a star LT and the Bills are again looking for a new coach and rebuilding their offensive line perhaps your perspective will be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Sorry but Peters wasn't the difference between 5-11 and making the playoffs. That's crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 And terrible players get selected to go to the Pro Bowl twice He wasn't a perfect model citizen, but was he really "terrible"? He was the worst pass blocker in the game in 2008...more sacks allowed than any other player...so yes, he was terrible. At LT, your most important strength is supposed to be being able to protect the QB and he did that worse than any other LT in the league. And you know why? He tanked it...thought about his contract instead of doing his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Sorry but Peters wasn't the difference between 5-11 and making the playoffs. That's crazy talk. I don't know who said that, but Peters, Dockery and Walker may well have been though. I'm the first to tell people that close losses are still losses, but the Bills disappointing OL of 2008 would have been the great wall of china relative to the sieve they put out there this season. Considering that the Pats were very beatable, the Fish are actually bad and the Jets had a new coach and were quarterbacked by a rookie?.......yeah, it wouldn't have taken much to go 5-1 in this division. Add in the rest of this schedule with putrid teams like Tampa, Cleveland, KC......it was their turn to have the kind of fortunate season that some not so good Dolphins and Jets teams that have made the playoffs have had periodically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 For every bad move, there are defenders. The first rule of management is that it's always managements fault. The Bills, like a lot of their fans would rather point fingers elsewhere. And as for Pat, trust me, there were a lot of people gladly waving goodbye to Pat Williams because he was speaking out against the savior Donahoe and because in week 17 the Steelers backups ran for 200+ yards against Williams and Adams. In fact, Williams was actually flapping his mouth during that week leading up to the game. It was "good riddance Fat Pat", "he's too old", "he's not worth the money", "Ron Edwards is good ENOUGH". Three years from now, when Peters is still a star LT and the Bills are again looking for a new coach and rebuilding their offensive line perhaps your perspective will be different. what perspective are you talking about? the one where I said the mistake they made was not drafting Oher you are bringing up decisions made how many regimes ago when the rest of us are talking about Peters being traded this past offseason and the Bills not replacing him...can you seriously not follow this? and on what planet is Peters a star? have you watched him play this year at all? he has been average at best and some would say he hasnt even been that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I don't know who said that, but Peters, Dockery and Walker may well have been though. Even with those guys, who were there last year, it's doubtful at best. And even had they made the playoffs, they would have been trounced from them in the 1st round and Jauron would still be the HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Even with those guys, who were there last year, it's doubtful at best. And even had they made the playoffs, they would have been trounced from them in the 1st round and Jauron would still be the HC. I'm as anti-Jauron as they come. I hated his hiring, liked the job he did his first year and still wanted him fired because I knew that was as far as he could take them. But to say it's doubtful that they would have made the playoffs is to ignore the fact that this team was totally undermined by one of the worst offensive lines in NFL history. Lots of playmakers on the offense, a truly crappy division....a Jets team with a rookie HC and rookie QB is about to make the playoffs, it was an ideal time for Jauron ball to yield one winning season by trying not to lose. It very well could have happened, IMO. Remember, even Jauron once went 13-3 with the Bears. But yeah, long term they still would have had Jauron and still would suck NEXT year. But at this point, any success would be better than none at all. The failure is officially feeding off of itself and it's time to stop the bleeding at the very least. Sometimes when you win at least you can recognize that you have some quality talent and build on it. This team? Hell, we can't even EVALUATE a lot of the positions because the OL and LB corps are so horrendous they skew everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 FWIW, I happened to watch most of the Eagles game today, and focused on Peters. He was a pretty much a dominating presence -- mostly one-on-one, and easily handling his opponents on 95 plus percent of the plays. He's a good player. Jonathan Scott sucked today, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeBillsDrive Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 He was the worst pass blocker in the game in 2008...more sacks allowed than any other player...so yes, he was terrible. At LT, your most important strength is supposed to be being able to protect the QB and he did that worse than any other LT in the league. And you know why? He tanked it...thought about his contract instead of doing his job. Yup Andy Reid thought he was the worst Left Tackle in football and made the trade to bring him to Philadelphia. And the Eagles are paying the "worst" left tackle in football $60M over 6 years And Andy Reid has taken the Eagles to the playoffs how many times over the last 10 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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