KOKBILLS

That pretty much sums up my thoughts about the guy...I know he's highly respected...His players love him...But I'm not sure he's HC material...It's a massive step up for anyone...We'll see I guess...

A bit overrated here sure...This is a Buffalo Bills message board...But arguably top 25? Come on... I'm pretty sure Jim Kelly is firmly entrenched in the Top 25 conversation...Likely entrenched in the top 15...Arguably top 10...

Well...I hear you...No question viable excuses...But it's always something jw...Always something... And the overhaul excuse is one I think even Marrone would not be comfortable with...He came into town lauding the talent on this roster he inherited...And overall they did little more than a baby step forward, if that...They got better in some areas, worse in others...It may be just me, but I think they looked like a 7-9 to 8-8 team on the field (even with the QB injuries) that finished 6-10...And I don't think that amounts to much of a positive review for this HC...Though clearly I don't want to run him out of town either...We'll see how 2014 goes...

Arguably? What? Did he forget to leave you a tip once or something? I'd say considering the fact that there's only something like 23 modern era QB's in the NFL HOF Kelly safely fits somewhere in that 25... And yes, Cincy did run a version of the no huddle before the Bills implemented their version...But it was not the same animal...It's like saying a Zebra is a Horse because they kinda look the same...Kelly took the no huddle to a place no one has seen before...And after Marchibroda left Kelly also was basically the OC...called his own plays, etc...So...

There's always at least one...Always...

Montana Elway Manning Brady By the time it's all said and done I think Brees will be next...

Well... That's all fine and good, but if the Bills don't pick Spiller, Lynch is not nearly as expendable...The Spiller pick was the key...You don't Draft a RB #9 overall and expect him to sit...

I get what you're saying about the Lynch love now...And granted some of it, when compared to our other two backs, is a bit misguided...But I think that's missing the whole point... The real argument concerning the Lynch trade was team building 101...Or as Buddy Nix knows it...How to screw up team building 101... The argument about Lynch goes beyond who is a good back and who isn't...All three are good, proven, NFL RB's...There is not a question about it... The problem is we had two of them already and we used a premium #9 overall pick on another one...Even assuming Marshawn was going to have his issues, which he did no question...We still had Freddie, and we ended up signing Joique Bell as a UDFA...It was a dumb move to Draft Spiller, which led to the inevitable trading of Lynch...That's the real issue here IMHO...And I think time has shown that it pretty much blew up in the Bills face...Anthony Davis, Earl Thomas, Jason Pierre-Paul, Demaryius Thomas, Jermaine Gresham, Dez Bryant, and more, all went after Spiller in the 1st Round...The Bills could have kept Lynch and built a team, not a RB stable...

I don't know my friend...I think instead of saying it's not the OC, the proper way to say it is that it was all of the above...Then some...I do get that Hackett and Marrone were installing their system and it was the first year of that system so a drop-off could certainly be explained...But these two came riding into town on their "genius offensive-minds" horses, made a few really strange personnel moves (ie not giving David Nelson the minimum tender), and subsequently ended up with about the same Offensive output the Bills had in 2012...I could actually understand it a bit more if the new HC was a Defensive guy, but Marrone and Hackett came with such hyperbole that it was easy to imagine an improvement overall...And not only did we not get an improvement, we got a drop-off from two players we could least afford a drop-off from in production... As far as the O-Line goes sorry Bro...I done give Marrone an inch on that one...Ex O-Lineman, ex O-line Coach, ex OC...The (at times) poor play of the line is on him...If Marrone was all that they should have improved in that area, Levitre or not...I expected the Bills to be more like the Pats on the O-line with a bunch of grinders who were technically outstanding and played smart...Instead we got a mixed bag and an absolute ton of penalties... So anyway...Yes the Bills dropped off...NO it was not entirely on Marrone and Hackett...But it was partially on them for sure...And hopefully they learned some lessons...To me these guys came across as a bit over their heads in year one...If the same thing happens in year two I'm not sure I want to even think about giving them a year three...

The only reason I was OK with it was because...by that time...the Bills had no choice...They basically had 3 starting caliber RB's, and Freddie may have been the best of the 3...So the minute...actually the second...they Drafted CJ I knew it was over...Time to move Lynch and get what you can for him... Maybe it's simply because I was SO against the CJ pick that the whole Lynch thing pisses me off to this day...And I was not ever against CJ as a player, I just thought it was a really stupid team-building move...And the key to me in the whole thing...The absolute key...was Freddie...The Bills already had Jackson who had shown so well to that point, they could gamble a bit by keeping Marshawn and hoping he would work through the immaturity issues...But instead they brought in an old school GM and an old school HC who wanted Lynch gone, and were willing to throw the team-building aspect of it out the window in order to make him dispensable...At the time the Bills had needs all over the field and they Drafted a player at their deepest position in the 1st round...Not to mention that position was RB...A position I'm not crazy about using a 1st round pick at anyway...So there you go...Bye bye Marshawn... I think team building is almost an art form in the NFL...And Buddy proved to me right there, from day one, he was clueless in that art...

So...A converted CB who was projected by many Scouts to move to Free Safety in the NFL all of a sudden can't move to Free Safety because he played one year as a SS in a scheme that his DC admits the Safety positions are basically interchangeable? The only reason the Bills did not move Williams to FS is because they already had Byrd who is one of the best in the business...And once they moved him to SS, and Byrd got hurt, they did not want to further confuse the kid by moving him to his 3rd position in two years...Plus Williams was obviously converting well to his new role...Rest assured, if the Bills wanted to, Williams could move to Free Safety and be just fine there... I'd rather have both Byrd and Williams to be honest...But saying Williams cannot move to FS is not correct either...He can...Not sure if it really matters much in Pettine's scheme anyway...But Williams can play FS for just about any team in the NFL...It's a great fit for his skill set...

That speaks to the team Defense and you're not wrong... Still...The OP is correct...Thomas is the best in the business...I really don't think that speaks ill of Byrd though...Thomas is better than any FS...

You don't need hindsight in this case...You really don't...All anyone had to do was hang out with me for the 2010 Draft to know you could see this one coming a mile away... The minute the Bills Drafted Spiller they put themselves over that barrel you speak of...They had plenty of choices where Marshawn was concerned, but the new Coach and GM did not want him...And once they took CJ it was over...Lynch was a goofball and made some dumb mistakes...no doubt about it...But he was not without positives either...He was a heck of a good RB in Buffalo at times...His teammates liked him a lot...I don't think you can find a classier team leader than Fred Jackson...He and Marshawn are still close...Freddie has commented before that they still talk almost daily...How bad could he really be? He was a kid 3000 miles from home...He made some immature mistakes because...well...he was immature...Regardless it was just dumb team building on Nix's part...When you have not one, but two Pro-Bowl caliber backs in-house, you don't Draft another one in the top 10...It was dumb then regardless of what Lynch would go on to do...It's even dumber now because Marshawn is special...

Exactly...

Well I'm sure you wont have to worry about that... There is at least a chance that a VERY highly rated OT will be available at #9 though...That will be interesting...

Thank you... That's really all I'm trying to say...

Yawn... Really? Nobody expected better numbers? Nobody? Does that include Marrone and Hackett? Nobody? Come on... If you want to say that Hackett had a decent rookie year as an OC, all things considered, go right ahead...It's a free country...I'm not saying you don't have a point...But don't pretend there cannot be debate...19th in yards...22nd in points...28th passing...6-10...Despite being the the 2nd best run offense in the NFL in total yards the Bills were only 14th in yards per attempt...There's plenty of room for debate...Plenty... I'm not saying he did not do a decent job...In fact I said clearly he should be given credit for getting similar offensive numbers overall considering the drop-off from Stevie and Spiller...But I'm also not willing to ignore the fact that he did not get anything close to the production expected out of those two because they are clearly the Bills most talented offensive players...Mario improved under Pettine...Dareus improved under Pettine...CJ and Stevie accounted for more than 30 less yards combined per game under Hackett...It was a regression...Now, were there extenuating circumstances? Of course there were...Rookie QB's and all..I get it...But I'm far away from assuming Hackett is the next coming or anything of the sort...That's all...I'm not making assumptions any longer, or giving any benefits of the doubt, when it comes to this team...Winning will solve that...Anything less and it's all a bunch of rah rah garbage...

But the Offense was supposed to get better right? Not the same or worse...Call it cherry picking if you like, but similar production from Stevie and CJ in 2013 and the Offense is better than it was in 2012...I'm certain Hackett would have told anyone before the season that he would be disappointed if he got 1000 less yards combined by those 2...They are supposed to be the #1 RB and the #1 WR without question... In Hackett's defense it is almost a miracle they produced as well as they did on offense with the drop-off from those two...I'll give him that much...

Ebron (TE only because he's not a WR...He won't be used like a traditional TE...Then again if he comes to Buffalo with Marrone and Hackett who knows...) or Watkins (though I assume he'll be gone) at #9 would be fine with me...Right now I like Ebron over Evans and Benjamin, though I reserve the right to change my mind...

Well... The Bills were 2nd in the NFL in sacks...Manny Lawson is 29 actually, and in the 2nd year of a 4 year contract... Yes Hughes will be a UFA in 2015 but he's a situational guy, and he's certainly resign-able... Furthermore this team has bigger needs...There not in the position to be Drafting to fill a potential UFA loss...They need to build a complete roster first than worry about that stuff down-the-road...

Kevin Burkhardt and John Lynch...For a Playoff game? Fox has Gus Johnson in house and this is who they put on a Playoff game?... Anyway...

Don't know much about him yet...But I do know that is one of the worst first names I have ever seen...

Why? The Bills already have Hughes and Lawson on the outside, and they want to move Kiko to the weak side...Hughes is playing that hybrid 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE in Passing situations, basically rushing the QB most of the time...IMHO the Bills will be looking for a stuffer on the inside first and foremost, and not a hybrid on the outside...