finn

Could it simply be probability? Depressing as the thought is, it stands to reason that, putting all the major-league sports together and giving it enough time, there will be at least one franchise that will whiff again and again, despite changes in ownership, management, coaching and personnel. The extremely improbable does happen. Unfortunately, it appears to be happening to our team.

Injuries happen to virtually every team every year. Good teams figure a way to work their way through them. Bad teams use them as an excuse every year.

I was optimistic when Marrone left because of the good defense and then the spending on offense. But the Rex Ryan hire really disappointed me and dampened my expectations, for the reasons that have played out. I was surprised that other Bills fans bought into him so enthusiastically (I wanted Lovie Smith or Jim Schwartz). Hope triumphing over experience? The lack of a top QB and OL have been constants since Kelly retired, but I would argue that a more important element in the Bills persistent mediocrity has been coaching. We've had just one head coach in this era worthy of the title, and that was Chan Gailey, who was given a weak hand, did a lot with it and fired too soon by a skittish front office. The rest have been shite. We might have the worst of all in Ryan, for the reasons posters have been repeating here. He brings nothing valuable to the table and has cost the team dearly. Since "he can't be fired!" we will have lost yet ANOTHER five years waiting for him to get done failing and giving yet another coach enough time to prove himself. And so it goes around and around and around. We'll be having a similar conversation in 2020.

This point keeps coming up, but it overlooks the very good possibility--or probability-that the coach is awful and the team is going nowhere under him, no matter how many years he has. Marrone was junior varsity, and Rex is a clown. Yes, continuity is important, but you want continuity with a good coach, not a bad one. So keep the "Continuity!" argument for when someone competent is in place, ok? I keep hoping Pegula had the sense to put a clause in Ryan's contract that stipulated playoffs in the first year or the contract is void. A blowhard like Ryan would have signed it in a flash, and it would make firing the fool much easier.

Fair question. I'm basing my comment on what Ryan has said in the past about "doing something" about penalties and later revealing that push ups were his solution, and Robie's recent comment. Here's the quote: '“In your mind, you’re like ‘Yo, it has to stop one day. It has to stop one day.’ You see us at practice every day,” Robey said. “The push-ups. The wristbands. We have to wake up one day and it just has to stop. We can’t talk about it anymore. The talking is over, the talking is over. We have to just do it.”'

Let me explain, since you keep asking this question. A player like Dixon is irritated and wants to do something stupid. If Belichick is his coach he checks his impulse because he has learned, down to his socks, that bad things will happen to him if he indulges himself. With a coach like Ryan no such lesson stops his impulse. What has Ryan taught him about penalties? That he will have to do push ups if he commits them? That he will get a good talking to when he gets home, young man? Most penalties are committed unconsciously, and it's on unconscious level the coach has to get through to his players. Disciplined play has to become part of the player's on-field identity. Belicheat demands a professional identity, the Clown tolerates--and essentially encourages, I would argue--self indulgence. By asserting the players are "grown men," you're assuming that grown men are rational and will behave responsibly on their own, or even against the grain of what they're learning from their coach. But I don't think that's the case. So what should a coach do? He should not tolerate stupid penalties. If discipline entails pulling a starter or benching him for a game or even the season, it's worth it. The Clown doesn't know or believe that, which is why the Bills will be the most penalized team in NFL history.

Special teams in general have been abysmal. One of the qualities I admired about Marv Levy was his commitment to special teams, meaning he devoted precious practice time to them and stocked them with first-rate players. Rex? Add this to his many, many deficiencies. What possessed Pegula? The one playoff run by the Jets? His "fun" personality? He's the Trump of the NFL.

It sucks being right, especially with this crowd and with this team in this era, when being right means being skeptical. You're flamed for being disloyal (or worse) when you predict bad outcomes, and it's no fun saying "I told you so" afterwards. Meanwhile, the flamers rarely eat crow or apologize for savaging the posters who didn't jump on the bandwagon. But maybe those folks will surprise me and own up now. I'll go first: I predicted E.J. Manuel would flop, trading three picks for Watkins was stupid and hiring Coach Clown would set the franchise back (another) five years. But I also thought trading Kiko for McCoy was a big mistake, I was meh on Incognito, and I thought Roman would do a good job with the offense. Where have y'all been way right and way wrong?

Welcome to the club, kid. Get out if you can, but we understand if you can't, 'cause we can't either. The Bills suck, and our curse is to be loyal to them. I just hope you get at least a few glory years to compensate for the grief coming your way.

Here I disagree. That was a beautiful throw, beautiful "catch," beautiful breakup. Just good football all around. The loss hurts, but there were some terrific plays from players on both teams. The Watkins catch and the Gilmore breakup are two more that come to mind.

I can see Tuesday's headline, too: "Patriots, lacking two key players, lose to Bills team coming off bye," or something like that. The whine-fest will be insufferable.

I think it's fair to say that both have been as successful as they have been because they had each other. Give Brady Rex Ryan as coach and he maybe goes to the Super Bowl but not that many times. Give Belicheck Tyrod and this Bills team (for example) and he also goes to the Show, but maybe just once. Plug in any combination of great coach-qbs in NFL history and it amounts to the same thing. You need a franchise qb. But you also need a top head coach. And I'm here to tell you Rex Ryan ain't one of them.

I'm not a big fan of "what If? history, but as a thought exercise the notion sheds light on the two coaches' abilities. Under Belicheck, the Bills would more likely win tonight because they would be disciplined, focused, innovative, responsive and prepared. Under Ryan, the Patriots would more likely choke because they would be distracted by his grandstanding, take stupid penalties and play right into Belicheck's schemes. (The Bills would also be more likely to win with Belicheck because they would cheat.)

I was going to write "The Bills. Love 'em or leave 'em," but I knew the sarcasm would be lost on the O.P. I realize mindless jingoism is part of the game and definitely a big part of TBD, but it gets old, it really does, especially when the Pollyannas criticize anyone who points out the obvious, in this case that Ryan is a jackass taking his team backwards, the Bills tend to make fools of themselves on national TV, and their record against Brady and Belicheat is embarrassing. So why will I watch? Because I wouldn't still be a Bills fan if I didn't let hope triumph over experience. And because I live in Patriots* country and I want Brady et humiliated. So here's to the O.P. and others who demand mindless cheerleading as a condition of fandom: screw you. We're just as much fans as you, just less stupid.

We heard this at the beginning of the year, too. Will we hear the same type of thing at the end of the year? One wonders.

Teddy Bridgewater AND (not "or") David Carr vs. Sammy Watkins. The excuses flow like milk, but the equation doesn't change.

The OP nailed it for me. It's just hard to find the optimism. Mine was guarded because I thought/think Rex Ryan is an ass, but the defense was top notch, and we had some exciting new players on offense. What is so discouraging is the team going backwards on defense. From number four in yards and number one in sacks to...well, whatever they are. And the penalties. You just lose your steam. But I think most of us will get it back eventually, especially if they beat the Pats*.

How about Bridgewater or Carr? Yes, it's hindsight, but Whaley gave up two picks for Watkins when all he had was Manuel and his own delusions.

Thanks for the tip. I'll make good use of it.

Having Incognito on his left has to help, but with a struggling rookie on his other side... You have to give him credit, if PFF is right.

And when Koolaid drinkers turn out to be wrong, they usually sneer sarcastically. Check out your posts, man, Nothing but scorn for anyone who dares to question those all-knowing gods Ryan, Whaley, Marrone, Nix, Jauron, etc. etc. Fine, be optimistic, most of us are. But keep your wit to yourself, especially when the posters you sneer at turn out to be right, again and again.

I'm with everyone pointing out there's plenty of blame to go around. But, damn, how about an apology from those posters who flamed anyone who dared predict--correctly--that EJ would be ordinary or worse? The jury is in: the man is no more than a backup. What is up with you Kool Aid drinkers, you people who troll anyone who doesn't radiate eternal sunshine about the Bills? Is your own self esteem so low? Here's some cold water: EJ WAS a waste of a first-round pick, ok? And get used to this idea: Rex Ryan is a incompetent fool, and he will be fired after wasting still another two years of our time.

Yogi Berra said, "If you come to a fork in the road, take it." The Bills are at a fork. The Bills teams over the past 15 years would lose this game; the playoff versions would win. Not merely because of win percentage but because it's a gut-check game: Can the Bills play with the big boys? I love the Bills and want them badly to win. I think they have the talent to win. But I think Rex Ryan is taking them in the wrong direction. Bengals 30-14. I hope I'm wrong. I want to enjoy a season for a change.