krazykat

It's also what happens when players like Kyle Williams gets a contract potentially worth $5M/year. Or Butler $3M/year with one season of starting on the most unproductive offense in the league. Or Spencer Johnson, a proven backup only, gets $3.5M/year. So hey, relax, we don't really need Peters if these guys are that good. Walker can play LT, we're locked up at RG now with solid play for years with Bulter. If we can extend Fowler for another three years we'll have a top C. Dockery is excellent at LG. Edwards just has to watch his right side a little, which is workable. Why is everyone so worked up. Obviously our front office and personnel guys and Brandon have a plan and don't think that Peters is worth anymore than he's getting even if it may be less than Butler, Dockery, and Walker. If you trust Brandon and the team's FO with the Peters situation, then trust them on the rest.

No closer than the Bills were to being 3-13 for the last two seasons.

Very good post. My problem through this is that once again we have a team throwing money at players like Bennie Anderson, Mike Gandy, Peerless Price, etc. but ignoring players like Evans and Peters. Some seem to think that's wise, but I'm thinking that if Butler ever ends up more than say Ross Tucker ever did here I will be surprised. Otherwise it's only the opinion of posters that seem to suggest it won't. There's certainly no evidence to back up the notion that he was deserving of a contract paying him $3M/year. Everyone including Bills fans thought that a similar contract, in fact a bigger one, was way too much for Kyle Williams too. I don't think he'll ever end up historically remembered anymore than say Tim Anderson was. I consider both players to be just the next flash in the pan. Sure, I could be wrong. But what we know as a fact is that both Evans and Peters, both at the forefront of their primes, have both done more and offer more to this club for the future. IMO the money we gave Williams, Johnson, and Butler would have been better served the team had we given it to Evans an Peters and made due for DT backups and a RG elsewhere for a little less. JMO, but we have data on Peters and Evans suggesting that both have the potential to be top-10 if not top-5 at their positions. Meanwhile we slight Peters and Evans. Smart? We'll see, but this organization's personnel and FO really can't be confused with one that's been smart over the last decade or so. And little has changed within it.

Of course! We may see this year.

Why does this get lost on people like you? I fully agree that the advice that his agent is giving him is not the best. Whether it's the worst is debatable. Going to camp as you all suggest will cure things hasn't done a thing for Evans now has it? Read post #421 here: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...8571&st=420 You guys are so defensive of the team that once again your support cutting off your arm to spite your hand. YES, Peters is getting bad advice, but if you think that this team is going to renegotiate Peters because Brandon, in his first months as GM, says so, you're equally naive. They want Peters to play out at least this year. But they didn't make Butler play it out. Meanwhile, of the 9 starting linemen we have, one of which a DT isn't even known yet, Peters is the sixth highest paid (or comparable) one after Kelsay, Schobel, Walker, Dockery and on par now with Butler and Williams. Seems like you think that's fair. Well Butler played OK in his first season of starting and deserved a raise. Great, give him a raise. But why doesn't that apply to Peters who has performed exceedingly well at LT, a far more critical position, on a contract that he originally negotiated as he was playing RT. I don't understand it. You guys are all for risky decisions like McGahee, giving Schobel the world at 30 years old, giving players that may be backups far more than they'd get from just about all other teams, but for a player that really could very well be the lynchpin in the entire mechanism of our success, you take the approach of one of the most bungling front offices in the entire league and obviously one of the worst that this team has ever seen. I'm just not understanding it as you guys make it all about me and others like me. Fine, screw Peters, let him sit. Great, and that gets us what now exactly? A 9th straight season without playoffs, a 4th straight losing season and needless to say a 13th straight year without a playoff win for what, close to a league record there. Yeah, as long as we play hardball with Peters and show him, it's ALL worth it. Yeah, great. But your and others like you's blindness towards the impact of Peters not being here prevents you from seeing that. Either that or you think that an offense that couldn't put up more than one TD per game on average last year will be far better without one of the better LTs in the league. Sure, that makes sense too. /sarcasm. See what you will and continue to support the team on this, the same team that keeps failing you. But when the season ends, please, let's quit the pissing and moaning because you will have supported the team through all of this.

You know, I think that what the team says lost meaning years ago. Obviously their scouts believe that this guy (Butler) is worth keeping around. Unfortunately they're the same exact scouts that told us how good Nall, Tripplett, Price, Reyes, Bennie Anderson, Mike Gandy, Troy Vincent, Lawyer Milloy, Drew Bledsoe, Willis McGahee, and the list just goes on and on would also be. Again, you miss my point over your apparent dislike for me, because I can't find any other reason. If Peters walks as a result of this, fairly or unfairly, right or wrong, for good reason or bad, are you going to be saying at least we locked Kyle Williams and Brad Butler up? Or are you going to be thinking that the club could have done more to keep one of the most up and coming LTs in the league on board at perhaps the most critical offensive position? And while you probably join the minions that think that this team is going to make the playoffs this year, suppose we don't, suppose we only finish 5-11. What happens to Brandon and Jauron then? You really think they're gonna have continued support? If not, then what? Would it be good for this franchise? Yes, Brandon does have the upper hand from a negotiating standpoint but from that standpoint only. BUT, he has nothing on the back end. This team absolutely must put up a winning season this year and that's dicey already with Peters in the lineup. Vegas agrees with an O/U at 7.5. Without Peters I don't see us having a chance. We're definitely not hearing the kinds of things about either Hardy or Johnson so far that would indicate that the league should be put on notice here. Why is this so seemingly complicated for everyone to understand? Perhaps an analogy. You are in your Ford Echo. You are approaching a 4-way stop. You come to a complete stop with no other cars around but a dump truck approaching that clearly for one reason or another has absolutely no intention of stopping. You reason to yourself that you have the right-of-way, and YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! You do have the right-of-way. It's your right to move through the intersection legally. So you decide to exercise it and get T-boned by the dump truck that ran the stop sign. I'll leave imagining the results of that to you and will even state that the driver of the truck was charged with reckless endangerment and went to prison for 20 years. Good move and exercising of your right-of-way on your part or not? As to Butler, he's had one year of starting with no other real play and that was on a team that had league worst offensive performance pretty much no matter how you decide to carve it up. So again, I say show me why Butler is good based on the results where you can't and can only point what people that couldn't have been more wrong in the past say.

How do those of you backing the team on this, again, particularly in light of both Williams and Butler having 1 and 2 years shaved off of their contracts for new ones, yet not being able to sniff Peters' jock in terms of talent or performance offered, rationalize that? I mean if Brandon is to be trusted, Evans is in camp and wants a new deal. That's indisputable. So why doesn't he have one and why are the reports only that both sides are so far apart. Anyone want to offer and real opinions of value? I know, I'm a troll, not a Bills fan, a Pats fan, a Brady fan, a loser, dope, a$$tard, etc. Given. Other than all that, I mean does anyone at all have an explanation?

Boyt, you've sure done your research, huh. Yeah, he was part of the OL that helped this team finish dead last in offensive TDs produced. That means fewer than the Fins, Jets, Raiders, Chiefs, Niners. Yes, I know, very impressive. 30th in total yards only 5 yards ahead of the Chiefs. Also very impressive. I mean how can anyone have any doubts with evidence like that. Our OL must have played the lights out last year to have produced like that. Then again, if we had a RBs and an OL like Justin Fargas and Lamont Jordan and the Raider OL instead of the great OL that you say we had and crappy Lynch and Jackson, then maybe we would have had almost 2,100 rushing yards and 11 rushing TDs instead of only 1,800/6. But then again, Edwards was a rookie with no receiving weapons. If we had had Josh McCown and Daunte Culpepper instead of Edwards and Jerry Porter and Ronald Curry instead of Evans, Reed, and Parrish, our running game would have no doubt been vastly superior. So yeah, you've made your point. Otherwise, what particularly about Butler makes you think he deserved a ~ $2.5M raise/season?

You can't find any words from me, except those prompted by individual posters that used worse to initiate and directed specifically at them and only rarely, that prove your point in the least. You guys get worked up over a simple disagreement, and you want to discuss childish? Please! This board generally speaking is like a mob. Conform and you're in, disagree and simple disagreement becomes the equivalent of violent crime to you people. I don't get worked up. I make my points. The ones getting worked up are the ones whos intellects are presumably too retarded to deal with their issues verbally and they resort to petty and childish name calling. Case in point, you won't provide any posts of mine that meet the above criteria because they don't exist. You have me as your whipping boy, or one of them, and I don't mind. I understand the childish mindset the drives it all and enjoy the handful of responses I get that genuinely want to discuss these topics. Just as in this post, I'm just stating the facts, not getting worked up at all, yet you will consider this, amidst a sea of posts saying all kinds of rude things to me, as the guilty party in whatever this general morass is. Feel free, but if you actually look at the facts instead of succumbing to this predetermined notion that I'm what you and everyone says I am with little actual evidence to actually prove it, then you'd come to the opposite conclusion and I'd have been banned a long time ago. Or at least should have been if that's the case. Meanwhile, you say nothing about the vast array of ... I don't even know what to call them, but the people that levy all of these nasty names and charges at me (or others) simply because we don't see the Bills posting a winning season or making the playoffs and as an issue laden team otherwise. Again, feel free, but it's obvious to a blind monkey as a newcomer what goes on here. I can say the same exact thing as other "approved" posters yet people will argue with me simply for the sake of not wanting to have to agree regardless of the evidence put forth to substantiate any arguments, or not put forth. That's what I meant by "adversarial approach." Perhaps I was a little harsh there too, IDK, but it gets old even though I don't mind it for the most part.

Peters has also made a Pro Bowl while Butler hasn't even proven that he'd have a starting job on a team with even average competition at the RG spot. Also, you're forgetting Evans too. He's playing by the rules and has given this team more than Butler, Johnson, and Williams combined and the team still hasn't redone his deal. So this stuff about if Peters shows up Brandon will redo his contract is nonsense and I think that Peters and Parker know that.

Oh I see, so show up to minicamp and any mediocre and completely unproven player and 5th round draft pick with only one season of questionable starting that was part of one of the worst lines in football automatically gets to redo a deal with two seasons remaining. Logical. /sarcasm Otherwise you make good sense, but at the same time, is Brandon really in a position to be playing with fire here? IMO both sides are wrong, but the team has far more to lose. It's teetering on the edge of yet another coaching staff replacement and fans and media coming down hard on what may fast be shaping up as a continuation of "business as usual" regarding the playoffs and us not being in them. Hardy's got hamstring issues and isn't really doing much otherwise suggestive of notions like so many here have that he's gonna be all that and then some this year. Steve Johnson's out with a knee injury. Our OL situation speaks for itself. Does anyone have hopes for the season if we go into it with Chambers at one T spot? This line didn't play well last year as a whole with Peters. If this team goes anything less than 8-8 and any of it has to do with Peters not being here, people, both media and fans, are going to start trashing Brandon, Jauron, and everything else that walks into OBD and it's going to be led from right here. It's an ugly situation, but after the semi-retarded money that Brandon's been throwing around to players like Williams, Johnson, and Butler while not even apparently considering either Peters or Evans, he's gonna be on the hotseat too if the team doesn't perform. Just like all of his predecessors here, he's probably just assuming we'll have a winning season. But little from camp is suggesting that much has changed other than our front 7 from the presence of Stroud and that alone isn't going to carry this team to a winning season.

Why did the Bills restructure Butler before camp began with two years remaining on his contract? Now I realize that Butler means so much more to this team than Peters does, is that your argument now too? How about Williams with one season left? Is he that meaningful to us? I can see him released after the season if he can't start. And you want to know what's so hard to understand? I haven't seen anything that states that Peters/Parker are unwilling to talk. I only see that they're unwilling to talk at camp. I don't see Brandon leaving the comforts of camps to do his best to reach out either.

Against a Bills OL missing Peters. It's encouraging but there are lots of things yet to be determined.

Gilbride was the guy that Buddy Ryan, his own DC, slugged on the sidelines in Houston. Do you remember/know why? He's always been pass happy even when he's had better running games than QBs/passing games. He prefers to throw. His history as an OC hasn't been great. He was a terrible head coach as brief as that stint was. On the Giants he's only been a QB coach and look at Eli's development. The entire league was ready to throw him under the bus until about week 10 or 12 last year. With the talent Eli's had there he should have been further along quicker. And we'll see if his play late in the season was an aberration or the real mccoy. And feel free to be disagreeable all you want. I have no problems with it as long as you just state your positions and don't start calling me or others names and making petty insinuations like so many here who obviously have issues when people don't join the street gang that they've created.

You'll obviously get no disagreement from me. I merely posted that because as the site whipping boy that was my independent assessment of McCargo just about to a T and everyone said I don't know what I'm talking about. Well here's McCargo himself and DL coach Kollar fully validating my views. I also thought it was funny that the biggest mouths on this board that offer the least in terms of good discussion are the ones saying the complete opposite. Otherwise, to your post, I fully concur. It's not good news. The good news is that we should be deep enough at DT to find a decent starter opposite Stroud who apparently is looking solid and good which is great news. He alone, if 100%, is capable of changing the complexion of a DL. I've avidly watched him in Jax and have been a huge fan of his for years. I just have concerns as to his return from a relatively serious injury and won't be fully convinced until I see him play 15+ games. But for now the news is excellent and from Johnson and Williams one of the two should be able to start if necessary. We don't need another Stroud although that would be great, but we do need a solid presence. Hopefully Williams' third season will propel him upward.

I don't know man, I doubt he would become the highest paid OT in the NFL although who knows, all it takes is one team to make that offer. In that sense IMO Peters is overrated. He's good and clearly our best lineman, and a top half LT, but he seemed to have slipped some last year and he's got another season or two of top LT play to cement himself as a top-5 LT in the NFL IMO. Again, and where many seem to be missing the boat, it's all relative to what the team has done. We didn't force Brad Butler, who's started for one season with unspectacular results, to play his contract out this year and next and gave him pretty much what Peters is getting. Same for Kyle Williams who may not even start this year. Then on top of that we signed a backup DT Spencer Johnson to a similar deal and about what Peters is making on a per annum basis now. It's clear that at least one of the two, Williams or Johnson will be a backup. When you throw that kind of money around and don't pay a guy that has established himself as a top-half LT in this league, probably a little higher, and is playing on a contract he got as a RT, then it makes a statement which many here seem to argue implicitly for reasons that are unclear.

Good post. Butler still had two years left but the team didn't take the same position there. Kyle Williams also had this year left that they didn't make him play out. Same for Schobel last year. That line of reasoning is a joke. It's a convenient excuse. All I can say is that this team better be competitive this year if Brandon's gonna play these kind of games in his first year as GM and in Jauron's do or die third year.

Yeah, but you wouldn't throw a ton of money at him without knowing that first, or at least putting in print. Right now the problem isn't verification, it's talking. Brandon's unwilling to leave the confines of camp to deal and Peters/Parker aren't feeling too inclined to get out of their lazy boys. I'm sure that if Brandon just picked up the phone and said "what's it gonna take" that would get the ball rolling. Isn't that his job? Players holding out of camp is not some sort of unusual circumstance. It happens all the time around the league. A lot of people here act as if this is the first time in NFL history that anyone has not shown up in camp. It's Brandon's job to make sure all the ducks are in a row contractually. So let's see the novice get on it. It's obviously a little different than selling out luxury seating. If he goes to Peters and Peters says he wants a deal without a physical or any kind of proof that he's fine and refuses to sign a contract with built in clauses accounting for that, the Brandon can come out and state the team's position and no one of right mind will argue at that point. Until then however his job is to deal with this garbage and he's not doing a good job obviously. Right now it's two sides of enormous egos trying to prove which one is more stubborn. I still have to side with Peters though given all of the recently resigned non-impact players getting about what he's getting on this team. I mean Butler still had two years left on his contract and they redid his. To me if I'm Peters, that's a slap in the face. I'm sure you don't agree, but that's my take.

Yeah, kinda scary thinking about Walker and Chambers being the bookends for an already problematic line.

That should have happened last year. Good to see that the team has it priorities in order. (Butler, Williams, and Kelsay)

If Peters skips a year this team may have a new coach next year. I can see Brandon getting axed too if that happens.

LMAO Yeah, the status quo has been working just fine. Naturally you missed the perfect correlation between the lack of continuity and the current front office. Perfect!

So you're validating my point then? Why don't I switch? Is that the dumbest question I've been asked? You say I'm no fan, but even through this I stick around. Yeah, great logic. Par for the course for many here.

With a lot of lost good will between the Bills and Peters. I can't imagine that the team is going to give an extension without either contractual or field reassurances that Peters is fine. Still, the Bills are playing with fire.

The Bills have said absolutely nothing guaranteeing that they would rework Peters' deal if he comes to camp. All they've done is say that they'll talk. That could mean anything and for players and agents here, I wouldn't trust this organization sad to say. They're not trustworthy. I know that's going to go over like a pig roast in a mosque, but it's the truth. Peters is protecting himself, and in this business and given the circumstances, I don't blame him. But again, in the big picture Jauron, Schonert, Wilson, Brandon, and the team have much more to lose than Peters does. Every single one of them is toying with their careers here except Wilson who's in his 90s in a few months.