krazykat

So what. He at least deserves to get more on a per annum basis than Butler, Walker, and Dockery, there's absolutely no arguing that. Right now he makes about what Butler does and substantially less than his bookend Walker and a G in Dockery who's also overrated. If he were the highest paid lineman on this team right now, regardless of how much, he'd be here in all likelihood.

First of all let's quit with the bull sh-- insults. Second of all I was writing generally. Thirdly, I was trying to explain to you what Parker's doing. What I wrote is extremely relevant to the situation and at the heart of it all. I didn't even suggest what you personally support or don't. Quit getting so damned defensive, an MB trait. You say with this post that you don't understand the agent's tactics. Well I just explained it all but you seem to think I've missed the point. So leave it for others then.

Well, you also have to remember that while many of our focuses is on the team, this is a business which many forget. And it's first and foremost a business with the entertainment aspect of it unfortunately often coming second. The cart's somewhat before the horse in that way, but fans created their own mess their by supporting mediocrity and poor performance in a "support the team at all costs" mindset, so this is what they get, business first and what drives this bus. I'm not sure his other holdouts have been unreasonable. It would be one thing if Peters were the highest paid linemen yet just underpaid by some standard. But he's getting less on a per season basis than either Walker or Dockery. The pay to performance ratio is much lower for Peters than it is for the other two and even Butler who just got $9M new money in a 3-year extension. IMO the Bills handling of these things is a slap in the face to Peters.

You first have to understand that there's never been a case like Peters, or at least not one that I can remember. He signed his last extension/renegotiation/restructure, whatever it was, before ever starting at LT. So whether you think he's right or wrong, you have to consider that. This isn't just a typical case of superstar [insert name] drafted in round 2 not round one at a particular position then having become a top player at his position. Peters was a project that worked out, in spades! He hardly played in '04 when he was signed as an undrafted free agent. He played RT in '05 but only began to start the second half of the season. Unless I'm mistaken, he signed his last deal after that season and with the team's loose plans to play him at LT the following season in '06, which he eventually did and excelled at it relatively speaking. He and his agent have seen the kind of money we throw around at players that will eventually be only backup or rotational guys or marginal starters tops or for players that will contribute nothing and be cut two years after they get that money; guys like Butler, Spencer Johnson, Kyle Williams, Kelsay last year, Tripplett two years ago (seems like more) and when Peters was here to watch, Price, etc. He and Parker watched the team hand Kelsay ~ $6/season in contract essentially forcing the team's hand in giving Schobel more even though he had just signed an extension/renegotiation/restructuring ~ a year before too. So for anyone saying that he should play out his existing contract, why? Schobel didn't? He and Parker are not stupid. They see what's happened and the retarded money we're throwing around at many players. Hell, our most expensive DT at the time Tripplett is already gone after a hero's welcome and the biggest contract that a DT of ours had seen until that time. Peerless Price took our front office to school and to the bank as well. Peters plays a critical position, perhaps the most critical position on offense given our situation, and indisputably one of the top few key positions for any NFL team. Throw in the fact that every successful NFL team and eventual SB winner has a top LT, and Peters and his agent realize that this team is backed into a corner. My perspective: You can't throw around the kind of money you're giving Kelsay, Williams, Johnson, Walker, and Dockery and expect a guy like Peters to be happy. There is precedent, at least with our team, that gives a player a "renewal" soon after having signed one. (Schobel off of Kelsay) Schobel's past his prime too, Peters is just entering his. This is Brandon's first significant test as a GM. He's fighting a team habit of overpaying for talent (players already mentioned) while not taking care of the top players on the team. (Evans, Peters) His stamp will go on this team beginning now with how this ends up. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that we're not going to improve much offensively without Peters playing. And granted, per rumors/suggestions, Peters may be entirely out of shape, not at full health, etc. We don't know. But this nonsense about "getting him in camp first" then renegotiating is just that, nonsense. Peters clearly doesn't believe that his show of good faith in that regard would be reciprocated. If that were what was holding this up, then this team would have something done with Evans now. Parker has some other high profile clients and no doubt he's very comfortable with his position here. Either way, you have a team supposedly on the rise, paying all kinds of players that may never amount to anything for this team, then ignoring what is indisputably one of the three most critical elements to the 2008 success of the team. We can argue whether or not that's smart, but it is what it is. The team's going to go a lot further with Peters than with Spencer Johnson and Kyle Williams if it's a one or the other thing, as merely one example. Here's the rub, Peter's is not grossly undercompensated although he is undercompensated. But guys like Kelsay, Dockery, Walker, Johnson, Williams, maybe Mitchell, Butler, Josh Reed, and maybe a few others are overcompensated, mostly by a sizeable amount. Why? Poor management and our team having to overpay to lure talent. Again, Parker and Dockery see that. Regardless, the Bills are now tinkering with seeing their season collapse over this. Anyone not thinking that Peters missing a bunch of games isn't going to impact the team's performance, win or lose, is naive. It doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong. What matters is that Peters is in camp, in shape, and ready to go in a month. This team is already questionable in terms of whether a rookie WR can change how horrible it was on offense last year. Any gains made by Hardy or Johnson will be quickly eradicated by Peters' absence. But the Bills set the tone for this with their inconsistent yet predictable crappy signings. Anyone that was being honest knew that Tripplett sucked long before he got here. But the rah-rah types here won't see that. Ditto for Price, Fowler, Gandy, Kelsay (whom they've already paid for by having to give an aging Schobel more), and even Robert Royal who with a $10M contract may not even start this year according to team reports and who has already been demoted. The Bills are far from guilt free in this and Brandon has his hands full with this. If he continues to play hardball and it costs the Bills this year that will set the tone for his tenure here and already present an uphill battle for him to remain on. If he plays into Peters/Parkers hands then he won't be doing anything differently that we've done in the past with Schobel as a precedent. Everyone here was good with Schobel's situation even though Schobel was already on his back-9 by that point, yet the sentiment is different for Peters, a player entering his prime and meaning more to this team than Schobel. That's what I can't understand. Some of you are going to launch into the typical childish "he's not a Bills fan," but at times I seriously question whether most of you are Bills fans or front office, GM, or coach fans first. As to what Parker's doing, he's had success with this route with some high profile clients. The party that's playing with fire on this though is Brandon specifically and the Bills generally. He and the team have a lot more to lose than Peters' does. If Jauron doesn't post a winning season people are going to want him gone which will present a whole new set of issues for Brandon.

Why, what have 20 of the other 31 teams done? So it's fine with you to fail as long as we're in good company then. Well, good for you. My standards are a little higher. For continuity see Patriots, Chargers, Colts, ... OOOPS! Mentioned two teams with GMs let go by the Bills. My bad. In my world one strives for the best. Here everything stagnates with so called fans rummaging through the team's braintrust's laundry baskets looking for sniffs to get high on.

So you're suggesting that we keep hiring coordinators with zip for experience, GMs that don't have any either, coaches that have only failed, all while keeping the top of a personnel office that has never had any success anywhere. Boy, you're one astute analyst. LMAO

You guys just rotate your arguments every year. For six years it's been "it takes three years for the draft..." blah, blah, blah... Three year's ago's draft has only Parrish and Preston even on this team. Youth isn't any guarantee of their being good. You can guess that they'll be good, but check me if I'm wrong, aren't all draftees young? So why have hardly any of ours developed. You read far too many press clippings on this team from sources that get paid to say good things. Yes, I can say that they aren't proven, which is a fact. You're then stating that they're young followed by whatever else you'd like to include changes nothing for the present.

Oh the irony! http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/403072.html Bill Kollar (OL Coach): “Without a doubt, he’s got the ability,” said Bills defensive line coach Bill Kollar. “What’s got to happen is he’s got to decide that it means so much to him that he’s going to take that next step.” “We are hoping like hell that he can take that next step and play like we hoped he’d be able to play when we drafted him,” Kollar said. “He got it down, so that shows something,” Kollar said. “But you’ve got to want it. It’s too hard at the defensive line position. If you don’t really want it, it’s too hard to get it done. We’re just hoping that he’s in that mode, ‘I’m going to do whatever it takes.’ ” “You saw plays last year that he made,” Kollar said. “But he’s nowhere near as consistent as you want or didn’t make as many as he’d like to make.” McCargo himself: “I’ve got no excuses this year,” McCargo said. “I’ve got to go out there and get it. I’ve got to go out there and prove why they drafted me. I’ve got to go out there and play.” “I’ve just got to figure out the transition [to the pros],” McCargo said. “I still feel like in college I was so much quicker. I feel like I’ve slowed down a step. So I have to figure out what happened. I’ve got to find that this year. When I get that back, I’ll definitely make a lot more plays.” Yeah, that sure sounds like someone that many here say the exact opposite about. And then you have the audacity to challenge anyone saying the opposite, call them names, and tell us that we don't know what we're talking about. That's part of the humor here, using the opinions of the same "experts" that many of you clowns rely on to refute your own statements. LOL

LMAO

Just can't let go of the JP thing, can ya. Tell me though as it would help, in your view which is greater, 1.5 or .9? Simple math test. Two entirely arbitrary numbers by the way.

Just curious.

He likely will, but assume for a second that Peters holds out the entire season, an entirely unrealistic proposition for one reason or another. But what would our record be without him? How would our offfense perform?

It's fairly apparent that the Bills front office is well out of touch with the reality of contracts and particularly the value-contact value relationship. After all, they've dropped a sizeable amount of both cash and contract value on players like Price, Fowler, Tripplett and Robert Royal just two years ago as the first moves of the new and current regime. Yet, only two of those players remains on the team with Fowler likely gone after the season and Royal's spot now being threatened by a one-dimensional second year Derrick Schouman. Yeah, great signing all those were. No need to mention some of the silly money being thrown around for other players that are clearly backups here or otherwise haven't proven a thing. Regardless, put yourself in Peters' shoes and the team's shoes. What do you do if you're either? Obviously Peters feels passionate about his position whether you agree with him or his approach or not. As to the team, who knows what they're thinking and for reasons of preservation of sanity, perhaps best to not know. But you're Peters, what do you do and how? If you're the team, what do you do and how? To me it's not so much the fact that Peter's contract now in hindsight from when he restructured his deal two years ago is undervalued. Rather it's the way that this team seems to continually not pay its top performers going back to the past even with Ruben Brown, Pat Williams, Nate Clements, but then opens their pocket books to deals that annually pay out only a marginal amount less for players that don't do even close what those now getting the money do. Also, at the time of Peters' restructuring, he hadn't even played LT yet where he has since not only started but played to top levels. I would just have as soon waived Kelsay, never signed Spencer Johnson, and released Brad Butler and paid Peters than piss off Peters if he's not gonna play this season. Our OL stunk the joint up last season and without Peters it would be a tough argument to make that our line wouldn't have been the worst in the league last year in spite of our offense largely due to its line play last year being the worst in the league at scoring TDs and in other efficiencies. Regardless, what would you do if you were the team? Peters?

What are you going to do when they don't? I'll answer yours when you answer mine. You've been saying that for years though, so let me ask, what did you say after last year? How about after '04? '05? '02?

Yeah, just like we were with Bledsoe, Vincent, Milloy, McGahee, Williams, Tim Anderson, Parrish, Losman, Mike Gandy, Bennie Anderson, Ryan Denney, Kelsay, Matt Bowen, Robert Royal. I mean doesn't this get old for you, constantly sucking butt of the team that no matter who they tell is going to propel them into the future you bite and bite hard? I mean since the Donahoe FO has been in place have there been more personnel failures or successes? Seems to me I'm trying to discuss what's wrong with this team but apparently you think there isn't. Naturally we'll have to wait another half decade again for the guys that you support to prove themselves. LOL Meanwhile you and others continue to make more and more excuses letting them off the hook. Sure, and me and my preferences for winning are the issues. It's good humor at least. Let me ask you, with your head in there, do you get lightheaded when Brandon and Jauron fart?

Popular since the dawn of the Donahoe era = LOSING! Yes, I go against Losing. Yes I hate it unlike so many here who apparently are just fine with it. Thank you! At least you got something right about me.

What's getting old is what you just said. If you had half a clue, then you'd know what I think is entirely wrong with this team is the fact that those running it are morons. Isn't that what this very thread is all about? You and everyone else's "my skin is so thin that I consider any positive discussion about JP hurts my feelings about my man love for Edwards" schtick is even older than Wilson. Get a grip and get it right if you're going to criticize my positions.

I agree. But you cannot have no continuity plus no talent in the critical FO and coaching spots too. Then let's fix what's broken which is a lot. Instead, everyone here cheers for what will eventually be more of the same in Schonert now after Fairchild, the last big hero, left and Levy too.

The offense has been the problem with that team and it was as inconsistent as they make 'em this past year. And let's be honest here, your ready to credit their O for the win over what their D did? I mean if Eli doesn't dig deep on one play we're all having to deal with "Perfection Park." Otherwise Gilbride's track record has been piss poor too as Eli hasn't done squat until the last few games this year.

Instead of blessing everything that this team does as if when Wilson, Brandon, or Jauron go into the men's room to take a weewee they're pissing liquid gold, how about all Bills fans in unison following the season if it's a losing one and telling the entire coaching staff, personnel staff, and front office to get lost? Every year it's the same thing. "Hope" this, or "if" that, or "I think" this, or "maybe" this. When do we as Bills fans get a team worth being proud of or when do we get our day in court as to why we aren't?

...is that there's not much continuity. Besides Bledsoe who was a known quantity even though we ignored it when we signed him, when's the last QB besides Kelly that got two full seasons to start much less three or four? There hasn't been one. Most teams give their young, unproven, and rookie QBs, at least those selected relatively high in the draft, at least a couple seasons often three or four to prove something. Here in Buffalo we yank them in and out like it's fantasy football. JP was drafted in round one but the team played head games with him by swapping him and Holcomb, another QB that some fans thought would be great while others of us knew would suck, out at will. JP got '06 to start before the team undermined him last season too. Why? Because we keep changing our OCs. We make idiotic decisions hiring OCs like Gilbride or Fairchild, which again, should be known by people considered to be "experts" and should know more than all of us collectively but don't, nor do even a rudimentary amount of research on them beyond the highly superficial. We make those idiotic moves because our GMs suck who hire poor head coaches. Donahoe sucked yet everyone said we were on the right track back then at the time. He hired Gilbride and promoted Gilbride, and of course Wilson himself has much to do with it the same way that Dan Snyder does with the Skins poking his head in where he shouldn't be. Meanwhile, with this revolving door of FO and coaching change, of course every player wants to "bring their own guys in" especially at QB. So what we have is one giant clusterf*&% with things constantly changing to suit the needs of the coaches and administrators so that they don't look bad, or look as good as possible I suppose, although none of them know what they're doing and can't even keep from getting thrown under the bus when they're driving their own damn bus. I don't care which effin QB we play quite frankly, but it would be damned refreshing to see one start for two or three seasons and then have the entire effin coaching staff and FO take their lumps win or lose. But this constant "no, just one more change here" nonsense that is perpetual gets really old. The team keeps making excuses for the components of this losing franchise that they want to keep around. It really makes one wonder what their goals are for having a team, because it's really tough to convince us that it's truly about winning when from the top down this franchise makes some of the most idiotic and risky moves in the entire league. And why not, most of you support it. There's no accountability in Buffalo regarding the Bills until it becomes blatantly apparent to a blind man what's entiirely obvious and usually predictable.

How do you know? Wasn't the same thing said about Losman, McGahee, Youboty, Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish, Mike Williams, Ryan Denney, Chris Kelsay, and Tim Anderson too. Most of those guys either suck or aren't even on the team anymore. Evans has one foot out the door in spite of what you're hearing. Edwards, I honestly don't know why so many of you are expecting much. There's absolutely nothing on record to suggest that he can even pitch a good game against an average defense. And no, his game against the Giants wasn't good, it sucked too. Pure speculation. Yeah, well if we all had a nickel for each time someone here "thought" or "hoped" for something great and insisted that it was coming, we could all happily retire at whatever age we are.

LOL, you're pretty generous. He hasn't played well? Has he played at all other than sparingly on a few meaningless snaps?

Well, you're right, he may just have been leading our team to a palty one offensive TD per game without defenses keying in. Really raises ones hopes for this season, huh.

Oh yeah, you're right! My bad. I forgot that this year game winners will finally be determined by who has fewer sacks at the end of the game. Great news and rule change for us. Perhaps for next season we can suggest to Goodell that the league use style points for poise as bonus points too. Very few people argue that Losman is that good. I know that I certainly don't. He has only a fair command of the short game which is where you want your bread buttered in the passing game. A deep-ball game is not something that you want to have to rely on heading into the playoffs. But this notion that Edwards is hands down better or even better marginally is utterly and equally if not even more asinine. Like I say, we're screwed either way, but too few fans want to see the changes occur that's causing it all to force the team to make a change.