Sierra Foothills

Yes, but in years past they weren't collecting players to replace him with... as they are this offseason.

Disagree. He wasn't used this way but Murray is a guy who could line up deep and take the toss and attack the line of scrimmage vertically. 100%. Even at his age he's a lot faster that Singletary and when Murray gets into the open field he gallops. Watching him play last year he has a plenty left in the tank IMO. And he gives the Bills a style of runner that they haven't had. Yeah, they love Murray. It harkens back to the earlier days of the McBeane era where they wanted to have one veteran leader in every position group. Taiwan Jones is a free agent. It seems like either Sherfield, Shorter, or Shaver will take his spot. All 3 have strong track records as gunners. But, Yeldon has not played since 2020 so it's hard to blame the Bills for his non-use. Let me know if you'd like to make a wager that Murray gets regular season playing time with the Bills. Correct. Compared to Knox maybe. How about compared to Beasley or McKenzie? How about compare to Shakir or Diggs? You understand what I'm saying.

As was ALREADY stated upthread, Murray has missed a total of 10 games in 9 NFL seasons as a running back. Good question. What do you think the odds are?

He's consistently had juice. He's a 9 year vet with eight straight seasons of at least 500 yards. Only once has he averaged less than 4.0 per carry. He has power and speed and doesn't fumble the ball. I've always maintained that McDermott (from his comments) is a neanderthal football coach at heart. We pass because we have Josh Allen but McDermott would love to be able to play smash mouth football. I'm getting visions of Ottis Anderson running against us in Super Bowl XXV. This fires me up. Downhill, punishing... excellent vision. It's been about 10 years so people forget that Murray ran a sub 4.4 forty at the combine. This is a big, physical, durable, dependable, running back who can still outrun linebackers. Also he's averaged 10.5 yards per reception... a part of his game that's been underutilized. The Bills can go jumbo with the 2 TE set and teams will be overplaying the run when Murray's in the game.

Also, very few linebackers can overcome poor play by the d-line in front of them. In order for most LBs to have success, they need to be protected from blockers. In the present day linebackers have never been smaller and offensive linemen have never been larger. Regarding LB size, it used to be Chuck Bednarik, Sam Huff, Ray Nietschke, Dick Butkus, Willie Lanier, Tommy Nobis, ad infinitum were as big as the o-linemen who were blocking them. That was back when Lombardi's "Run to Daylight" was the blueprint for NFL success. In today's pass-crazy NFL, Tremaine Edmunds is an outlyer as was Ray Lewis. It's rare to see a 250 lb LB anymore.

It's fair to say that much of what the Bills do defensively is done with Kansas City in mind... more so than Cinci I think.

And then we drafted Nathan Peterman...

I didn't say Mayock was a good talent evaluator. I said I felt sorry for him because what happened with the Raiders is IMO more a reflection of Jon Gruden. I believe this because he was hired by Gruden. As @Kirby Jackson already pointed out, Mahomes was a late riser. I don't recall there being much surprise that he was taken. Maybe I'm wrong but I remember thinking that I'd be good if the Bills took him at #10.

In fairness, Schneider's had some really good drafts too. The last thing I want to do is re-start the Campbell debate. I just want to point out that the two players considered the biggest reaches of round one of this year's draft were taken by the same team. Bruce Irvin was taken 15th overall and has played 12 years in the league including last year. He has 54 career sacks and a Super Bowl win. No All-Pro or Pro Bowls. I feel he was misused both in college and in the pros. I always felt that Janikowski should have been a Buffalo Bill. Mahomes was taken 10th overall. Mitchell Trubisky was taken 2nd and DeShaun Watson 12th. They were the only QBs in that draft considered to be 1st rounders. Being that it was 2017, we had by then reached the point in history where the top rated QBs were not going to slide far. I feel bad for Mayock because there's no question in my mind that it was Gruden pulling the strings.

It may be that they're waiting to sign a bunch to make a single announcement. I think I remember something like that in the past. "Rumblin' Bumblin' Stumblin!!!"

And... Shavers... is the new Shorter?

Either one works for me. Can we put the two together? Kind of like the old "bowling ball with butcher knives?"

The NFL rookie wage scale was implemented during the 2011 negotiations. It took money from 1st rounders such as Sam Bradford ($76 million), Jason Smith ($62 million), JaMarcus Russell $61 million) and reallocated that money towards veteran players who had already proven their value. You have to admit, "Touchdown Jesus" is a pretty cool nickname though. Yes, ST is less important but still important. Ask the 2021 Green Bay Packers who lost 4 games directly to special teams including their NFC Divisional Game loss to SF. "Despite leading 10–3 throughout most of the game, the Packers went on to lose 13–10 to the 49ers. During the game, the special teams received scrutiny after allowing a blocked field goal, a 32-yard kick return by JaMycal Hasty, a 45-yard return by Deebo Samuel, and blocked punt that would tie the game at 10–10 in the 4th quarter."

I've seriously lost the ability to tell when someone on this forum is kidding... there's a few guys here with a very dry sense of humor. Woo is a strange name but I can't imagine someone named "Bumper Pool." And yet: https://arkansasrazorbacks.com/roster/bumper-pool/

"And they're dropping their gloves!!! Here they go!!!"

@SirAndrew Sorry if my grumpiness targeted you. It's a MAJOR pet peeve of mine that people will simply read something and then parrot it without question. But moreso, all of these posts refuting his "poor hands" came BEFORE you posted in this topic: I always admonish people here (whether or not I should) to read more and post less... and to read through topics to avoid posting redundantly, especially when it's bad information. Another example in this topic is that one person mistakenly mentioned that Chad Hall is the Bills WR Coach... and then he's corrected 6 times... Of course the corrections were made with good intentions but still... read first, write second. I realize I should let it go but like everyone else, I'm a work in progress... which is to say, I'm trying.

I have a Vontae jersey and will consider the trade. Mine is actually autographed but strangely he only signed his first name, then rushed off.

Are we sure he's slow? The consensus among most talent evaluators are that his celebration skills are indeed elite. However NFL.com had him 73rd in trash talking for a cornerback so you might want to reconsider that statement. Too often people here assume someone with celebration skills are also great trash talkers. That belief is just an oversimplification by those (and it seems to be a growing number) who view the world through a binary lens and can't differentiate the complexity in our world.

Kiper had him as the 9th most likable interior O-lineman in this draft. No DTs under contract for 2024 but yes, they're not getting executed or even assassinated. We'll be fine. One re-signing, one free agent, one draft pick... They love Bates too. I don't think either of them get traded any time soon. In the SEC, no less. Agreed! Technician for sure. Mean streak. Tenacious. I like his wide base and his hand placement is excellent. He also seems to have a good sense of his surroundings and understands leverages and angles. It looks like Beane really meant all the nice things he said earlier in the week about Spencer Brown. Apparently they really have faith in him. I could see this guy playing in the NFL.

Who did you have in mind as BPA? Arnold Palmer, like Wayne Shorter, is no longer with us. Willie Nelson turns 90 years old today... doctors forced him to quit smoking so he's gone to the chewies. Any relation to Rachad Wildgoose? Agreed. With Taiwan Jones gone there's an opening for him on teams. Yes, in spite of about 10 or so posts showing various statistics proving that his drop rate is very low. It gives sad insight into why this country is in its current state of being. That reminds me, did you no that the word "Gullible" is not in the dictionary? James Hardy was taken with the 41st pick. Shorter was taken with the 150th pick. Forget about it. It's futile. Incidentally, "that LB" (Dorian Williams) has 10.5" hands, 33.75" arms, and an 80.75" wingspan. These all exceed Jack Campbell's measurements... and Williams is about .2 seconds faster in the 40. He's gonna be fine. People say a lot of things around here... and then they repeat it. And then others repeat it. Even after they've been shown to be wrong. The disregard for truth (or is it "only" gross ignorance?) has never been more prevalent than in today's world. And unfortunately this forum is not a haven from such idiocy. GO BILLS!!!

But, but, he has a "bad body!!!" (which btw is not true) Watching extensive video, while he doesn't have elite lateral movement it's not bad at all and when combined with his wingspan/arm length/jaws of life hands it's obvious why he didn't give up any sacks. Not you specifically but I'm seeing a lot of posters (again as with Dorian) looking at measurables and drawing incorrect conclusions. There are plenty of examples of mauling guards playing next to athletic tackles. Richie Incognito wasn't a ballerina. Landon Dickerson has average lateral movement. If you're dominating the person lined up opposite you, that's all that matters. We rarely get to see this side of you! Also especially early thread there were many allegations of him not being a fit athlete. These are simply untrue and lazy takes based on height/weight. From "The Beast:" ... weighed over 420 pounds when he started high school and completely changed his nutrition and life habits to carry a comfortable weight... A massive but lean-muscled blocker, Torrence has above-average inline power and physicality in the run game to quickly gain control and drive defenders from their spot. In pass protection, he sets wide, strikes with authority and plays with the reactive quickness to recover and reposition his hands vs. quick pass rushers (zero sacks allowed in 1,501 career pass-blocking snaps). I doubt they're going to want their starting guard also playing as an extra blocking tight end.

I watched the Cotton Bowl condensed version (about 20 minutes). Dorian Williams was flying out there. If we can build a strong front line he is gonna be laying the wood on guys. I noticed that he likes to hit people at full speed. Odd thing about that game, I didn't see Jordan Addison... assuming he was injured. But the other USC receiver Brenden Rice was a stud.