UKBillFan

I think we may agree with each other to an extent, but the performance against the Jets has opened up the chance for people to push Lamar. If Josh had put in a performance akin to the Niners/Rams/Lions then it would be harder for them to cobble an argument together. As it is, it's easy to relay play after play from Lamar from the last week. In comparison, there were no plays from the Jets game. Again, recency bias. I can accept an argument of unconcious bias playing a part in the calls. Or, when it comes to Ryan Clark, a concious one. But the door has been opened, whether deemed fairly or unfairly.

I don't think the NE game is enough for Josh to lose MVP to Lamar, and the odds reflect that. But if he has another average at best game, considering Lamar has already (in the eyes of experts) played out of his skin against the Texans, it'll narrow further. And whatever happens tomorrow, anything but a Lions-like performance is likely to play into Lamar's hands. Either Josh will barely appear in week 18, or the Bills would have lost. Last year, perhaps no one played well enough to truly be awarded MVP, particularly QBs. Whilst Josh put the stats together, seeing his OC sacked plus the number of interceptions counted against him. This year, two players in particular have lit up the league. Only one can claim the prize.

I'd much prefer the Broncos to make it over the Colts. I do not want the Bills defense to have to handle Jonathan Taylor in the wildcard round, as much as they should still win.

For all the conspiracy theories about race etc. the biggest issue for Josh is he had an average game against the Jets whilst Lamar played lights out against both the Steelers and the Texans. Albeit Josh wasn't helped by his receivers last Sunday - if Shakir, twice, and Cooper had held on to those passes it may have been slightly different. But, as it is, it has really brought Lamar back into the equation. Recency is king.

Sorry, misread the screen on my phone! Now on my laptop so can see the breakdown better. TOTAL average yards allowed per game: Ravens (14th) 330.1; Bills (23rd) 347.7 Average passing yards allowed per game: Ravens 248.5; Bills 229.5 Average rush yards allowed per game: Ravens 81.6; Bills 118.3 The argument stands, though, with one defense being more porous than the other.

Are you really being dismissive of the Ravens roster around Jackson and then trying to compare James Cook, as much as I like him, to Derrick Henry? As for porous defenses, the Ravens have allowed an average of 330 yards per game (edit: total - 248 passing and 81 rushing). In comparison, the Bills have allowed an average of 347.7 yards per game (edit: total - 229.5 passing and 118.3 rushing). So one is clearly more porous than the other.

I know I said it before but it's what will stick in my craw the most - if Lamar wins it this year, fine. I'd understand why. He's played lights out. I can go down the route of individual EPA, separation v accuracy, the roster around each QB, who is more valuable to their team but I'd get it. It would hurt as a Bills fan but I can see the argument for Lamar. Last year was team record pure and simple. Josh's record was 44 total TDs and 22 turnovers to Lamar's 29/13. Fifteen more TDs to 9 more turnovers. Then, stats didn't matter. To 49-1, which was a ridiculous result to reward someone MVP who had a, quite frankly, mediocre season. Last year still bugs me more and will bug me more than this year, even if Jackson is awarded it again.

I agree. It will depend on the make of the rosters. If they had to chose between the two, I can definitely see the likes of the Colts, the Eagles and possibly the Niners going for Jackson due to similarities in the way the roster is built. Plus I think Josh can be too off script for Shanahan. I think the Texans would definitely lean towards him too. The Chiefs would be a toss up. The likes of the Lions and Rams would go for Josh, again due to roster make up. It definitely wouldn't be unanimous, though.

Well Josh was hardly going to say, "We hated it and are concerned that our OC cannot control his emotions." Wasn't there a rumour doing the rounds about the players insisting that Dorsey stayed in the booth rather than being on the sidelines, because of his approach?

The issue is partially last year. Last year stats didn't matter - they came second to record. Now it seems like stats do matter. I think most just want the voters to be consistent, rather than meddle with their approach to get the result they want.

I'd have less issues in Jackson winning it this year than last year. Last year was farcical and most of my annoyance is with that. It feels like Josh is owed one.

If there's another "vanilla" performance at the weekend, would you still be confident in Josh getting MVP? For me, he's currently in the driving seat but cannot afford to put in an average or worse performance to stay there.

As long as they stick to it this time around.

I don't think this game alone should be enough to swing the needle UNLESS Josh had another Pats-like performance against either the Jets, Pats (if he plays then and it matters) or both. Then it today will count in Jackson's favour.

"People think voters don't have brains..." After last year...! 😄

I think a lot of us would agree with you that Henry is at least equal MVP for the Ravens. I'm not sure whether the voters would agree. It's odd because with Jackson and Barkley you can name who else is key in that offense, in Henry and Hurts. They have someone else who can carry them if they go down. Not to the same degree, but to a reasonable record. Who have the Bills got in comparison? Heaven forbid, if something happens to Josh, who is the key player who will keep things at least respectable?

Vs Patriots 24-21 At Jets 23-20 At Jets 16-22 (2023) Jaguars 20-25 (2023) At Patriots 25-29 (2023) Vs Broncos 22-24 (2023) The majority are divisional games so maybe I should have added that into my sentence. Then we have the London trip and the odd game against the Broncos. But Sunday is a division game and I would have more confidence heading into it if it wasn't.

Oh they can flip the script. They can do what they want. Whether it's right will be argued for all of eternity but they can flip the switch. Jackson is laying it on thick now. If Josh doesn't keep up in terms of performances that will be voters minds when they make the call, even if the Bills take second seed.

See the Pats game last week. The Bills have a horrible habit of playing down to opponents. Any assistance would be appreciated.

That's my fear. Jackson's performances against the Raiders and the Browns are way back for voters so they won't consider them. The average at best performance from Josh against the Pats on the other hand... If he loses it it's because Jackson has been great. But also because he had an average game just when he couldn't afford one.

I would have been fine with Jackson winning this year if Josh had been rewarded it last year. Anyway, guess we have no control over it. A comeback here looks unlikely.

TD Jackson. This is depressing.

HOW was Stroud so hyped?

Stats didn't matter last year, though. Team records did. If the Ravens take two then, yeah, Jackson will claim MVP. But they've backed themselves into a corner with the stats argument in 2023.

If he has a Patriots-like struggle against the Jets, I think that will be it. He cannot afford to be even average now, unless Jackson starts fumbling or throwing picks.