Yoho

I have only been able to find one other quarterback in Bills history (besides Darragh) who was ranked below Marangi and it is not one of the early ones like Warren Rabb (8,597) or Richie Lucas (8,958) but the much more recent Brian Brohm (14,559). FYI - Kelly is 126, Ferguson 386, Kemp at 637

According to a ranking at pro-football-reference.com, it is not even close between the badness of Gary Marangi and Dan Darragh. Marangi was rated the 10,113th best player in the NFL since 1950. Dan Darragh comes in at 23,260. I wish I knew what the total number was to see how close to rock bottom he comes. Just as a point of reference, Ryan Fitzpatrick is 2,681 and Rob Johnson is 4,927. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DarrDa00.htm

OK. I have to nip this Rutkowski thing in the bud. He was a defensive back and then wide receiver who in 1968 after injuries to Jack Kemp, Dan Darragh, Kay Stepenson and Benny Russel was forced into playing emergency quarterback against San Diego in week 11. In Week 12, he started against Denver and lost 34- 32 because Marlin Briscoe (the original pistol quarterback) threw 4 TD's to beat us . On Thanksgiving day, we played Oakland the best team in the league and were down 13-10 with three minutes left and had the ball on the goal line when Rutkowski fumbled on a quarterback sneak. I was broken hearted but never blamed Rutkowski who played his heart out. Earlier in the year, the Bills lost 48-6 to Oakland with Darragh at quarterback in Buffalo. So not only does Rutkowski not deserve this bad rap but if he had not fumbled the Bills would have lost out on the number one pick in the draft (O.J. Simpson) and ended up with Leroy Keyes. So if you want to assess really bad real quarterbacks, you can not find worst stats than Dan Darragh from William and Mary who turned out to be a very good environmental attorney but a really bad NFL QB

Unless of course it is Jason Peters but he was a free agent so it is OK. Obviously anyone can tell which draft picks are reaches and which free agents have potential. That Steve Johnson in the 7th round was not a reach of course because he has panned out.

Doesn't it seem that the Raiders were always playing Mike Garrett and the Chiefs? Those black and white and red and white uniforms contrasted even when it was in black and white tv. I loved rooting for the AFL in preseason games the first year they were allowed to play. It was only 6 or 7 years since the Bills played the Hamilton Tiger Cats in a preseason game. I wonder what rules they played? To this day, I have hard time rooting for the NFC team. Those arrogant .......

Mack Yoho Gene Sykes Monte Ledbetter Preston Ridlehuber Billy Atkins

Not to mention Tracy, Jacobs and Stratton at linebacker. Byrd and Edgerson at Corner. Saimes and Janik at Safety Paul Maguire punting and the orignal "soccer style" kicker Pete Gogolak. Bring on the 64 Browns.

The game has changed a lot but all you can do is compare teams against their opposition. Who knows how big Sestak and Dunaway might have been with modern weight lifting regimens, creatine, not to mention other stuff. I just hope that the 12 year olds of today will remember Williams, Willaims, Dareus and Anderson with the same fond memories of a dominating defensive line that you and I remember.

Tom Day, Tom Sestak, Jim Dunaway, Ron McDole. Until this line does not let up a rushing touchdown in a season this group will remain the best

I think the biggest problem with the Bills offense is the Bills defense. Imagine if Fitz could play with the Denver defense and twice a game you needed to score to win. You can punt 7 or 8 times a game and if you score a couple of time you win. You never throw into coverage and when you have the lead you are happy to punt. Give this offense a few stops, let them play with the lead and have some healthy wide receivers and we are Ok on offense. We need to stop teams on D to compete. I hope we can get a couple of more defense stoppers for next year and you wont have to worry about what you hate about our offense.

When you name the all-time Bills team, there is absolutely no doubt who the center is. The best there ever was.

I think this may be Crayonz singularly best moment. If Hitler had a time machine, all sorts of history would be screwed up. I am pretty sure Crayonz would have found a way to convince Marv Levy to keep running Thurman Thomas in the first Super Bowl and Norwood would have made the 28 yard game winning field goal. Thus leading to an unprecedented four straight Super Bowl victories over Jimmy Johnson and the psyched out Cowboys. Who knows who the foursome would have been then?

Andrew Catalon is a local Albany sportscaster who got some national exposure doing Curling, yes Curling, during the last Olympics. This will be his first NFL game. I am sure when they assigned him to Cincy/Bills they were expecting two 0-3 teams to be battling it out. Surprise, surprise. And good luck Andrew

Because in 1960, I started following the Bills with Ralph Wilson as owner, Buster Ramsey as coach, Richie Lucas as Qb and Mack Yoho as kicker. By 1965, I was rooting for Jack Kemp as QB, Pete Gogolak as kicker and of course, Ralph winning the AFL championship. By 1970, it was John Rauch, O.J. Simpson and Ralph. Since then we have seen Joe Ferguson, Joe Cribbs, Monte Ledbetter, Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Bill Polian, Wade Phillips, Doug Flutie, et al and Ralph. In fact, except for Eddie Abramowski and Van Miller, for a long time, I have been rooting for the Bills (and very importantly spending money on the Bills for 51 years). So you might argue that Namaan Roosevelt can say "we" and I have no right to do so, but I disagree. I think when I say "we', I am talking about Ralph and me and about 80000 other die hard Bills fans that have been there through the up years and down years and in-between year and when contract workers like Drew Bledsoe leave they have nothing positive to say about the team, the city or the fans. So, I will continue to say we.

What a stupid idea when all you have to do is temporarily name yourself the Honolulu Bills make your cuts at 5 and then relocate back to Buffalo. No fines!

I remember being a kid in War Memorial at a night game (might have been pre-season). They used to serve beer in bottles then (I was too young to drink at that point), but a thrown bottle hit right next to me on one of the support posts. I remember being pretty surprised at all the drunk adults at the game. So maybe things have not really changed that much but saying that I still support the new policy.

Being critical is not a problem. I just can't understand how at this time, when none of us have any clue how this season will turn out, you can't turn on the optimistic gene. What if Merriman, Darieus and Wiliams anchor the defense and make big plays? What if Fitz and Johnson and Jackson , Smith and Spiller combine with a break out young WR and make the offense more exciting? I am not predicting this will happen but I can not rule it out either. I guess for some fans expecting the worst and hoping for the best appeals to their negative instincts, I far prefer hoping for the best and if it does not work out, I will cope with it. At this point, I want to believe and there are always reasons to believe. I understand why some criticize the Bills ownership and management, it is just that there are some positive things happening and the constant criticism and whining get really old

The only things I can comment on is that there used to be a bar in Buffalo called Sestak's and Maguire's. In those days, players needed a supplemental income and for those guys owning a bar was as good as any. Paul Maguire used to bartend on a regular basis. I was too young to frequent the place but I heard that Sestak was more of a silent partner. As far as the Lamonica trade went, as usual all Bills fans liked the backup qb (Lamonica) more than the starter (Kemp). However what has been lost over the years is that Art Powell and Tom Flores had great years with Oakland and it seemed we were getting this tremendous QB and WR (he was probably a split end back then). What a message board moment that trade would have been if such a thing existed.

Interesting theory but I have not seen that trend at all. The ones who are negative in the beginning seem to revel in the defeats. They seem to believe that it proves their incredible prognostication skills and football expertise. "See I told you we would suck" "See I told we should have drafted (fill in the blank)" You will never see me going into "full blown psycho mode". They are the Bills, I will root for them every week they play. I have been here since Richie Lucas and Wray Carlton. I have seen far worse teams with less potential than this one. So I am glad you find the Bills losing "amusing". I guess we all get our entertainment in different forms.

As the person who started this thread, my point was I begin every year anew. I know that every year teams come out of nowhere. I can always paint the scenario where we are one of those teams. This year it is the Merriman, Dareus, Williams trio that gives us some playmakers that change games around. I know we open versus Kansas City who has weaknesses of their own. I refuse to give up in preseason because they don't look good in a game they didn't even game plan for (why would you when you play them in the regular season?) I can't spend my time bashing Ralph because 1.) I dont believe he wants anything but success for the Bills (he may lack the patience and management skills to make that happen) and 2.) beyond all odds the Bills are still in Western New York (nothing else is). I guess I can deal with disappointment but I find the season so much more enjoyable going in with hope. If that makes me Pollyanna so be it. I just cant imagine watching the Bills waiting for Ralph to pass away, being convinced that we are going to be 4-12 and having no hope in the second week of pre-season.

Thank you for your first sentence. I am sure your second sentence made sense to you.

Not an unfair point, but if Ralph Wilson was "win-only", "profit motivated" guy, he would have been out of Western New York in the early 70's. If you expected the owner to be a big spending, win at any cost guy, you are rooting for the wrong team. The ONLY reason Buffalo still has a team is Ralph Wilson. Sad but true

If the Bills are the Clippers they are playing at 4 in the Rose Bowl. Please remember if Ralph Wilson wanted to leave Buffalo he has had every chance to do so and never did. See Bill Bidwell, Art Modell, Robert Irsay... etc. There is NOTHING about my favorite city of Buffalo that justifies an NFL franchise but the fans. If Ralph wanted an excuse, he had a million of them.

It is unoriginal, vapid responses like this that makes me lose faith. Why did he even feel the need to say "yawn"?

As long as Ralph owns this team it will be in Buffalo, after that all bets are off. I will take Ralph and a Sunday afternoon at the Ralph then some LA owner and a So Cal tail gate any day of the week. You do realize that is the alternative right?