Beck Water

He called them for Kevin O'Connell?

Good stuff here, Thanks. So it's been discussed here ad nauseum that the Bills don't seem able to run a screen game (other than the occasional bubble screen) to save their lives. Now I may be mistaken - I learn more about football every day - but I've never heard of screen plays being run up the middle at the NFL level. I thought the whole idea was to fake pass protection (including the RB) then release to the flat. But the whole "Screen Game and Why Don't the Bills Have One?" is a giant sucking sound. You have a valid point that there seemed to be a lot of pass plays where the options were deeper passes and then short checkdowns. To my eyes a lot of this was the Bills running 11 personnel and keeping Singletary and Knox in to block, or at least to chip and release. Usually they would release to the edge, but to my eyes a fair amount of the time the back would slip out the center. Someone put out a Heat Map on Twitter that showed over the season, not much difference in the target areas. I do share your perception that the middle of the field went under- utilized but apparently objective mapping didn't show that. I just don't think it was Dorsey's offensive design nor done to keep the center open for Josh to run. I think there was a stretch after the UCL injury where Josh wasn't throwing to the middle of the field because he didn't 100% trust his aim. Better to throw for the sidelines where being off-target means an OOB throw vs. the middle of the field where off-target means a pick. I also think that the lack of a slot receiver Josh trusted to get open against zone (and Knox assigned to blocking duties chip and release) played a role. Once Crowder went down, I don't think Josh trusted McKenzie to run the correct route or catch the ball cleanly in traffic. I saw us running layered concepts a lot, with short and intermediate crossing routes. The deep INT to Brown in the MIA playoff game was one of those. We were in heavy personnel 22 with Brown as the only receiver, but we had Morris running a shallow crosser and Gilliam up the side. Anyway, good convo, thanks. What would be really cool would be to see, not a heat map of throws, but some kind of heat map of actual routes run. It would probably take some doing to get it to not be unintelligible spaghetti, but I'd really like to see some objective data on what routes were really there. This is just my perception, but I think a lot of the lack of YAC has to do with Allen being unwilling (or the play not being designed) to take the checkdown option quickly in the play when there is a lot of space to run after the catch. if he would hit those early in the play when the receiver has lots o' space, he would get more YAC. But by design or by preference, Allen waits and buys time for the deep routes to open, and by the time he throws a checkdown coverage has closed in. My perception anyway.

Could be, although from things Josh has said in interviews (including his day-after presser) he has implied that he knows he is not running the offense the way Dorsey designed or intended it to be run at times. And Daboll and Allen were clearly also very very close. Whatever the answer, I agree with what I see as your underlying point that for some reason, coaching of Josh is lacking this year. Perhaps Daboll was more able to say things in a way that Josh was willing to hear, or more able/willing to get in his grill as necessary. I have the impression that Dorsey may not have a "middle ground" between over-the-top "Holy Spirit Comes Out of Him" yelling and patient "learning experience" It also sounds to me that perhaps we can agree that despite the good numbers, overall the offense did NOT operate as smoothly and efficiently this year as last.

3, 5, and 7 step drops apply to play from under center. The Bills run >70% of their offensive plays from shotgun I don't watch that many Bengals games, but from what I have watched, they have always run a short rhythm passing game Zac Taylor came from the LA Rams. That short rhythm passing game bolstered by a strong run game seems to have been a McVay/Shanahan staple.

There's some validity to this, but there's also a valid point that one purpose of the coaching staff is to bring the best performance out of the players, help set them up and enable them to perform, and provide the insight of an external observer. If the offensive coaching staff isn't doing this, then what are they doing?

*ding*ding*ding*ding Willing It's true that Josh struggled a bit in the first weeks after his elbow injury, when he had to revert to his previous throwing motion. But it's not generally true, and hasn't been since 2019. Something is off with either play design, or how Josh was being coached, this season. It's like when Daboll left the building and Dorsey moved upstairs, they were all scared to ruin the "special plays Josh can make" if they got in his grill and told him to take the open checkdowns and let his guys get YAC, and no one was left who would rein him in. I will say this, to my eyes a lot of the season the intermediate options were lacking. Teams were flooding the middle of the field and giving Josh only the short checkdown or the deep shot. But it's not that he can't hit those short checkdowns, it's that he won't. Except that he did, last season, and even in some games this season.

Well, obviously you do or you wouldn't type it, but it's kind of hard to have a discussion if you don't provide evidence or examples to bolster what you say. I watch Cover1 film breakdowns, I read Jim Kubiak's QB analysis which includes film breakdowns, anything other guys put out like Kurt Warner or Brett Kollman, I subscribed to NFL+ premium and watched all-22 myself about halfway through the season, I'm not a football guru but 1) that's not what I see 2) that's not what people who know ball and break down the film (see above) are saying. A lot of times when Allen did scramble, it was to the outside, not up the middle.

Now this, is a Mystery of Life. We've had multiple threads on why the Bills can not run a simple screen, and I don't know the answer.

I don't think this is correct.

Some, but not very many: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/josh-allen/ALL529264/2020 https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/josh-allen/ALL529264/2021 Josh injured his elbow Week 9, and said it impacted his throwing motion until Week 18 or so: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/josh-allen/ALL529264/2022

Allen is capable of throwing short passes. It was his choice to do so that won us a bunch of games last season and even earlier this season. He was also able to throw short timing routes to Beasley last season. Go look at passing charts at nexgen stats and you'll see. It's true that at times this year, Allen has overlooked open short passes in favor of deep bombs or throwing to a tightly covered receiver. I can't tell you whether the "long bomb" game is Dorsey's play design (reading deep to shallow) or how Allen is being coached, but the thing that is amiss is not Allen's lack of short or screen pass throwing abilities.

Kubiak is not a journalist. He's a former QB, a QB coach, and a HS football coach. He is a huge Allen fan now (after having been critical his first 2 years), but he knows his Ball and is worth reading.

I don't think he should be fired at this point. But I don't think he should be COTY either

So you want 10 guys who talk trash on Twitter? Talking smack does not mean you lower the Boom on Sunday

Don’t the truck stops charge $12 per shower? I’m thinking House is a $10 Planet Fitness guy

Cover1 did some stuff about how Miami was manipulating the Bills run coverage by using motion in the passing game. Cover1 just did some stuff about how the Bengals exploited the same flaws. That’s really a defensive scheme and coaching problem. I don’t know if it’s Frazier’s problem or McDermott’s problem, but it’s something we’re going to see, a lot, until they figure out a counter. How can you say we neglected CB when we spent a #1 draft pick on a CB and also a later pick?

I don’t think Wawrow’s comments referenced the team being divided because the HC and GM aren’t entirely on the same page I think it’s legit in some ways to consider Diggs as a first round pick. The way in which it isn’t, of course, is that we didn’t get 4 years of cost controlled rookie salary. That said I share your concern from their individual end of year pressers, that they don’t seem to be on the same page. McDermott seemed to be saying that we lost the battle on the LOS (implying we need an upgrade to the OL and/or DL). The DL, of course, had 2 starters parked on this sideline with injury and 2 more playing injured, so it’s not unreasonable to think maybe it would be adequate with those guys back and maybe an upgrade at the backups. That leaves the OL. So to hear Beane talking about low-price FA and how Spencer Brown needed time was very distressing to me. I felt like Beane was making excuses for himself wrt failure to improve the OL enough and to add enough quality at WR.

I wish you had an “I don’t know” option Because I really don’t. I do remember very clearly someone - think it was Tony Dungy - expressing very clearly after Yet Another Playoff Exit “The Kansas City Chiefs may win a Super Bowl, but it won’t be with Andy Reid as their coach”. And yet they did….

Zach Taylor is kind of the exception to the rule “head coaches take a while to develop” Well, him and Sirianni Regarding Callahan, actually I just checked and Reich called the plays for the Colts when Sirianni was OC there. So I guess the Colts would feel there’s precedent for an OC who doesn’t call the plays nevertheless apparently knowing what he’s doing

So you’re posting to hear yourself type into a little echo chamber and no discussion or alternative POV interest you Got It.

? She was born in the Adirondacks She skiis That said she and Poyer live in Miami off season and own a big house on a canal. So it would make total sense that they’d want to put feelers out about a deal with Miami.

Unfortunately part of the business of running a football team under the salary cap is that you have to pick and choose who gets paid. If we can keep one of Poyer, Oliver, or Edmunds, I read between the lines of what McDermott and what Beane said and it’s going to be Edmunds. ”He had his best year” -McDermott “Draft, Develop, Resign” - Beane

He was playing on a torn meniscus in his knee. Also played through an elbow injury. He was a warrior all season, but he wore down at the end. I wish him the best, I don’t think we’ll be able to keep him.

I reluctantly agree. On first pass - -I thought Beane and McDermott sounded out of step. -McD isn’t ready to commit to his staff. Beane defends Dorsey and talks about how he’ll improve in year 2. -McD talks about needing to improve the lines. Beane defends Brown and talks about needing to find bargain FA -McD talks about being beaten by a better team, Beane talks about not overreacting to one game and our team being worn down. It was like Beane didn’t acknowledge any team weaknesses -The part that grated on me most was talking about how we didn’t want to suck badly enough to draft Chase, we sucked about as badly Allen’s Rookie season and went Defense with our top pick. Now maybe he’s saying we don’t want to suck enough NOW. But it came across to me as excuse making (at best) and a salty shot at the Bengals, which does not look good on Beane to make. Anyway I shared your disappointment and impression That was kind of my interpretation

Well, whatever it is, the Colts think it's enough to qualify him for HC consideration I'll go further. FIX THE OL. The DL had its infusion of FA $$$$ and high draft picks. Two of the key ones were out/IR; two others playing injured. There's reason to believe that as those guys come back, it will improve. The OL was the starters. FIX THE OL.