Beck Water

I'm not sure it means anything more than that they think Kirksey should be an upgrade on AJ Klein at this point. After all, they had the youth of Bernard/Dodson and they still went out and re-signed AJ Klein. Who looked, in game 3, like he couldn't be trusted to be where he was supposed to, because he simply wasn't able to get there.

Succinct statement of what I've been trying to explain. And Edmunds actually took a big step in his 5th year to the point where you might say "all pro is possible from here", but you don't bet 4 year, $72M with $50M guaranteed on that after he hasn't managed it in 5.

Good question. He was at one point. At this stage in his career and coming back from a hammy, I would say "uncertain". What he may be, is an upgrade on AJ Klein as that savvy vet player who knows the defense, can spot what the offense is doing and call the counter, and who can use his knowledge to compensate for elite physicality. That's really what this is. They saw an opportunity to upgrade on AJ Klein for the practice squad and as a "plan C" in case Dodson and Bernard both fail at MLB. Time will tell on everything else. Some people here like to over-react on everything. We trade an RB who is parked on the bench for Nyheim Hines, who immediately takes over the punt return duties that Crowder had been filling and that Shakir and McKenzie looked shaky with - and proceded to fill them capably all season while making limited offensive contributions. But some here act like we traded for our own budget Christian McCaffrey who would become an immediate game-changer on offense. Rationally when you look at what Hines actually accomplished before the trade, he was contributing a couple of rush attempts and a couple of receptions per game, for about 34 ypg, as well as being a solid returner. We got a good ROI for what we sent, and what his previous history was. Yea us!

Let me try to spell it out for you: 1) you laughed uproariously at McKenzie being reported cut from the Colts 2) a Colts NFL Insider pointed out that sometimes players are cut during roster manipulation, then re-signed 3) that is, in fact, what happened with McKenzie, as the Colts have now resigned him Why you can't process these simple facts and have to project some kind of personal quest into it instead, I don't understand, but You Do You. Aged well....Not.

Just a little point that last season, if you look at "passer rating against", Edmunds was 30th in the league with 63.6. If, by "heat seeking missile", you mean "able to seek and defend pass targets", there were only 4 LB who were better, one of whom was our own Guido Torpedo, Matt Milano, at 62.6. There were a lot of DB who were worse last year. I'll engage because I think you said something where we might be able to identify points of agreement and communicate. I think they do believe "most, if not all MLBs, aren't really a force against passing teams". I think they do believe a MLB who is not a force against passing teams isn't worth "much more than low-third-round picks". But I don't think it follows that they don't WANT an MLB who can be a force against passing teams. I think if there's someone they identify who could plausibly become what they hoped Edmunds would be, they would put resources into acquiring him. But Edmunds was the #6 FA contract this year, too rich for a team that is already paying their QB, WR1, LT, Edge, and CB on 2nd contracts, and there wasn't someone they could identify in that range. I do think they could have and should have done a bit more at MLB, but that's another story.

Shaw, with all respect, you skate right over evidence I spelled out in plain language - the Bills picked up his 5th year option. Why'd they do that, if MLB didn't matter to them? Or why didn't they pick it up and then trade him, maybe for more draft capital than a 3rd round comp? Speaking of draft capital, how can you square 2 3rd round picks in 2 years as "no draft capital"? Seriously? As for prioritizing elsewhere, I think of Beane and McDermott as a sort of executive chef team. They look at what they need, they look at what ingredients are potentially available to them, and they map out a strategy. You want to look at their food purchase decisions and say "well they didn't buy a steak this year, they spent their money on veal and chicken, so clearly steak doesn't matter to them since they didn't buy a steak". I say "maybe they couldn't square the quality of the available steak with its cost and with other menu needs, so they made a plan to live with hamburger, buy two beef calves to fatten up for the future, and fund the organic chicken and prime veal they need. That doesn't mean they don't value steak, or that they won't buy a steak in the future". That was the point of my analogy to what the Bills did last year at slot (seems similar to what they did this year at MLB), only to invest a 1st rounder and their 2nd biggest FA $$ this year. Last year's meagre investment doesn't mean they didn't value slot and want a star there, as we see by this year's investment. It just means they thought they could "get by" with what they had (and were probably wrong). I don't think you're able to be fully reasonable in discussion on this point - you seem so dug in on your POV that you're unable to fully recognize counter points. I've given it my best shot, so rather than dead horse whaling, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Ciao!

So his positive traits would be explosion, and fast straight-line speed? What do you see as a ceiling? I sort of felt the "best ability is availability" combined with coaching change was sufficient explanation for "moving right along". Near as I can tell, he had 4 different DCs in Cleveland, then when Kevin Stefanski took over, it only makes sense to kick the highly paid guy with the poor availability to the curb. But Pettine, who was his HC for 2 years, was DC in Green Bay when they signed him - that would say Pettine thought well of him. When I look at Spotrac's ILB FA list, it's kind of un-inspiring. But there are a couple guys who signed for $2.5-$3M who seem plausibly better than what we have

We've had this discussion in depth before, and as before, I don't think your conclusion is correct - though framing it as "isn't that important to have a star" is closer to reasonable than your previous "MLB is the least important player on defense". It is a point that McDermott has managed to build a competent, average-ish defense without that middle "star" at times. He did in 2017. They plainly would prefer a star, or why would Beane have traded up and used a first round pick on Edmunds, then signed his 5th year option, if having a star in the middle wasn't important to him? Why did Carolina invest in Keuchly? I think that to the contrary, while last season was Edmunds best to date, he just didn't emerge into enough of that Keuchly-like "star in the middle" that would persuade Beane and McDermott to lock down the kind of money and duration of contract stars receive - and that Edmunds was able to attract on the open market. They want a star at MLB, they just didn't see Edmunds shining brightly enough. Remember "does Edmunds need to produce more splash plays?" "Yes." On the other hand, I'm getting "last year's slot receiver" vibes from the steps Beane took to build that "defense without an MLB star". To recap, last year Beane and McDermott wagered that between a vet who had shown out in the rare times the starter went down (McKenzie), two vet FA (Austin and Crowder) and a 5th round pick in Shakir - oh, and Knox, who had shown himself more reliable as a target in 2021 - he had done "enough" at slot receiver. Well, he hadn't, as the use of this year's 1st round pick on Kincaid plus this year's 2nd biggest FA spend on Harty showed. This season, Beane wagered that between a 4th year ST ace who had played with variable success when plugged in for Edmunds in 2 "starts" + most of a 3rd game** (Dodson), last year's 3rd rounder, and AJ Klein he would have done "enough" (I don't know what they really thought about Spector TBH). Well, between Klein apparently having lost 2 steps, Bernard not hitting the gym and drinking his protein shakes like he should have off-season then having a hammy, and Dodson still being Dodson, I think the answer is "hadn't" again. Moving on from Klein to Kirksey may be a positive step - we'll see what he has once the hammy heals up. Josh Norman had a hammy to start the 2020 season, and it became evident when he did start that the answer to "can he still play as McDermott and Frazier hoped?" was "No". Age 33 doesn't heal like 23, that's for darn sure. But don't be surprised if significant resources are used on an MLB next season unless Dorian Williams comes on strong. Edit: ** meant to add, that while Dodson shows as having 5 starts, they break down as follows: 2 - substituting for Milano. Bad. Very Bad. When you substitute straight-up for "Cookie", your defense may crumble. See Klein, AJ. 2- substituting for Edmunds "next man up" fashion. OK against the run, sucked in by PA, couldn't cover. 1 - listed as starter, but both Milano and Edmunds played. The team started in 4-3 base, so Dodson was listed as a starter though he only played 10 total defensive snaps

Fair enough as a reaction to the "he starts week one" "after half time week 2", upgrade from Edmunds because (more tackles in....more games played) gang. That's been kind of chafing my grits as well. I think this is a solid cutdown-day signing and it's excellent that we were able to put him on the PS at least to come up to speed in our offense and complete his rehab. The 53 man roster had questions at backup OT, MLB, and QB and props to Beane for addressing all 3. My point is that I don't think truly below-average players keep getting signed into their 30's. Kirksey got a second contract from the Browns for 4 years, $38M ($9.5/yr). They did have some defensive talent at that point with Myles Garrett, Emmanuel Ogbah, and Joe Schoebert - and they re-upped Kirksey at that point even though they switched their defense from 3-4 to 4-3 and moved him outside. It IS the Browns, but do they really do that for a guy who's below average? For comparison, $9.5M AAV would currently slot him in at #7 ILB in the league, between DeVondre Campbell and Demario Davis. Then Green Bay signed him 2 year, $13M ($6.5/yr) - again, that's not a star, but it's not a "below average" player offer to a 7 year vet who just got cut 2 years into his 2nd contract. It would currently slot him in at #10 ILB in AAV, between Eric Kendricks and Ju'Whuan Bentley If we look at the league as an "efficient marketplace" which favors youth, even taking into account that FA get overpaid, Kirksey's contract history says GMs think he's average or above. He HAS struggled with injuries, starting in 2018 after the Browns drafted Baker and the hope was they were going somewhere (and it looked as though they switched back to 3-4?). Was he trying to "play up to his contract" or find an extra gear to help the Browns to a winning season, and over-extended himself? Milano did this up to 2020, but he seems to have learned to "play within himself" and change up his technique to help this. Last year was the first season in 5 years he managed a full season, and starting the season with an injury issue doesn't bode well. He HAS played on mostly poor defensive squads, though the Browns at least broke even in 2018 (and like I said, had some defensive talent); Green Bay had an OK D in 2020 IIRC. The Texans also showed flashes towards the end of last season. To me, this is similar to signing AJ Klein in 2020, when Klein was 29 and just off 2 years starting with the Saints (though we paid Klein a lot more). What I want to know is what kind of player is Kirksey? What I mean by that is, in Klein we got below average native athleticism combined with above-average knowledge of the game and ability to read and react to his keys quickly ("Coach Klein" as Micah Hyde calls him), plus willingness to THUMP as a tackler. What I'm looking for is some info on what kind of player Kirksey is in that regard?

Kid seems to have some pocket presence.

If it was a Grade 2 type strain, I think that's usually about a month injury. He apparently was injured just a few days into training camp, so having him pretty much healed and ready to start bringing himself into playing shape about now is reasonable. Happy Birthday to You, Christian Kirksey! I'm curious about this "not a particularly good player" thing. He started his career on some absolute "Factory of Sadness" Browns teams, earned a 2nd contract, then started to struggle with injuries. Last season was the first time in 5 years he played a full season. Usually guys who are "not particularly good players" don't keep getting chances from various teams once the injury bug bites and they're cut loose. So I'm wondering what more you can say. He just spent the last month in the training room. He needs to get into shape as well as learn the playbook. I think you're mistaken.

On the one hand, the Texans signed a couple FA and drafted a LB in the 5th round so they actually had some competition at LB. On the other hand, he was beat out by 10 year vet Denzel Perryman. On the third hand, he was injured for all 3 preseason games so he didn't put any tape down that other teams could evaluate. I'm happy about the signing of a capable vet MLB to our practice squad - someone who has started a season more recently (2022) than Klein (2018, 2019) I'm a little freaked out by the fans here annointing him immediately as our starter. I don't want to be "that Guy" but he did just get cut by the team that drafted #2 overall

He can't be poached unless we elevate him more than 3x after the trade deadline when ALL players are subject to waivers OR He chooses to go Practice squad players are FA, they can choose whether to go or to say "no, I'm good".

I thought he was contributing before he broke his leg. But FWIW the Giants cut him, and he's not on their practice squad (perhaps he's looking for another roster, who knows) Beasley is on their practice squad

This was great. Pssssst. Maddy Glab was hired by the Bills in 2019. Sexy Rexy was long gone. But I'm sure if she had been here, he would have tried it.

As someone who had hopes for McKenzie being ready to take a step, I have to tell you that “everyone” doesn’t mean what you appear to think it means. There were a lot of people here expressing concern on that point and that Beane had not done enough at receiver

I’ve said it before and don’t mind saying it again. It doesn’t bother me that the Bills moved on for a higher ceiling/lower floor player like Harty. McKenzie got his shot at slot WR and it didn’t work out. I cross my fingers and heart that Harty is an improvement on the gadget role and Kincaid owns the middle. But when you got a 170, 5’7” player who sticks on an NFL roster 6 years and now going into his 7th, most of the crap talked about him here logically can’t be true. Winning teams can’t afford to carry a total trash player. Give a high draft pick physical specimen patience to develop sure. Carry a waiver wire pickup as useless as folks claim about McKenzie, Nope

and here we go: Re-signed

I had not heard those stories. Gross, if true. May I ask if you have a source you could share? In any event, I do not want Wentz as a backup QB. If he couldn't be revived by Reich, he can't be revived. You may be correct about what Wentz needs, but why do you think giving someone who may need "an extremely short leash" is what the Bills need in a PS QB?

LOL. Yes, I've heard Milano speak. Before one of the Ravens playoff games, he caused a bit of a kerfluffle by saying "We're pretty confident in being able to contain him."about Lamar Jackson. After the win, he posted this: Another classic Milano-ism was when he said in an interview that he was trying to become more vocal on the field. One of the reporters asked "how do you become more vocal?" to which Milano replied, deadpan, "You talk more" Micah Hyde says that Milano is one of the biggest internal trash-talkers on the team. That must require talking.

Dale was reported by NFLDraftDiamonds, which is small-school scout Damond Talbot's account. Talbot later walked it back: For what it's worth. Talbot knows many of these guys, but what was actually offered or just put out as "we'd like to have you depending on how things fall", who knows?

On the practice squad, Kirksey and DJ Dale have not been confirmed by the Bills Also, I don't know if this is petty or what, but we have 24 offensive players and 26 defensive players. I think the Bills deferred making decisions at DB, and maybe at LB, into the first 4 weeks of the regular season.

Yes. The Bills have to be under the cap for 53 man roster, practice squad, and I believe IR counts too. Edit: this explains salary cap pretty well https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/ FWIW, players on injured reserve may or may not count their full salary, depending upon how their contract is written. This is called a "split contract" and one source says about 40% of current NFL players have a split. Explanation here: https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2023/5/30/23742416/explaining-how-the-nfl-works-part-5-minimum-salaries-injured-reserve-down-salaries-steelers A "down" salary of $450,000 for a rookie translates to $25,000/week vs. $41,667/week at rookie minimum Likewise for year 1, it's $26,389/week vs. $48,333/week. The team is not obligated to play salary to players on the NFI list, but may choose to do so.

Imma just drop this here and slip away quietly https://www.australianfirefighterscalendar.com/ G'day, Mate!

The pessimist says "glass is half empty" The optimist says "glass is half full" The engineer says "excess glass by a factor of two"