twoandfourteen

After 3 points, 56 yards passing and an INT from a 7 year veteran who WAS ready, yes. After 3 points, 67 yards passing and an INT from a 7 year veteran who WAS ready, yes. After 3 points and 124 yards (74 going into the last min of the 4th Q) passing from a 7 year veteran who WAS ready, yes. After watching one of the worst passing offenses in football run for the third straight season by a 7 year veteran who WAS ready, yes.

It's happened 225 times over the years. From hall-of-famers to journeymen to rookies and everything in-between, lots of QBs have thrown down a 5 spot. But it's only a really bad thing if it happens over the course of two quarters with Tyrod Taylor on the bench. Got it. If a QB does it over the course of 3 or 4, that's ok though. Tyrod wasn't on the bench, so we can get past those games. What is it about the 5 in one half for a rookie in his first game that is a much bigger deal than someone like Roethlisberger or Manning throwing 4 in one half? Shouldn't the rookie be given a little margin for error? To me, it would only make sense that all of those other players should have the necessary experience to avoid 5 INTs in one game. By the way, Peyton Manning was only a few minutes short of joining your club. He had 4 in the 1st quarter, then the 5th came on the first drive after halftime. Let's put Peterman and that Chargers game into the proper perspective. That's all I'm saying.

Fortunately for you, I have an important presentation I need to finish this weekend. So, I was looking for a way to procrastinate and this is the perfect thing to do instead. Who doesn't like a little pro football reference wormhole on a Friday night? Join me, as we delve into the fascinating world of the "Fantastic Fives", QBs who have thrown 5 or more INTs in a game (since 1999). Since 1999, QBs who have thrown 5 INTs in one half: Ty Detmer (DET) had 5 in the 2nd half against the Browns in 2001. Threw 7 INTs that day. Ryan Fitzpatrick (NYJ) had 5 in the 2nd half against the Chiefs in 2016. Had 6 INTs that day. Threw an INT on 5 straight drives, in fact. Nathan Peterman (BUF) had 5 in the 1st half against the Chargers in 2017. How about 4 in a half? Peyton Manning (IND) had 4 in the 1st Quarter against the Chargers in 2007. Threw 2 more that day, 1 on the opening drive of the 3rd Q and 1 more in the 4th. Along with Peyton's 6 INTs that day, the Colts also missed 2 FGs and lost the game 23-21. Troy Aikman (DAL) threw 4 in the 1st half against the Giants in 2000. Had 5 INTs that day. Matt Barkley (CHI) threw 4 in the 2nd half against the Redskins in 2016. Had 5 INTs that day. Drew Bledsoe (NE) had 4 in the 2nd half against the Dolphins in 1999. Had 5 INTs that day. Daunte Culpepper (MIN) threw 4 in the 2nd half against the Bengals in 2005. Just missed the 5 in one half club by 1:06. 5 INTs that day. Brett Favre (GB) threw 4 on 4 straight drives in the 2nd half, also against the Bengals in 2005. Had 5 INTs that day. Josh Freeman (TB) had 4 in the 2nd half against the Panthers in 2009. Had 5 INTs that day. Dan Marino (MIA) had 4 in the 2nd half against the Cowboys in 1999. Had 5 INTs that day. Kyle Orton (CHI) threw 4 in the 1st half against the Bengals in 2005. Had 5 INTs that day. Ben Roethlisberger (PIT) threw 4 in the 2nd half against the Jaguars in 2017. Had 5 INTs that day. Tony Romo (DAL) had 4 in the 2nd half against the Bears in 2012. Had 5 INTs that day. Tony Romo (DAL) checks in again with 4 in the 1st half against the Bills in 2007. Had 5 INTs that day. Honorable Mention: Mark Sanchez (NYJ) threw 3 INTs in the 2nd half against the Bills in 2009. He also threw 1 INT in the 1st and 1 INT in OT. Steve Weatherford also threw an INT in OT on a fake punt attempt. Chris Chandler (STL) threw 3 INTs in each half against the Panthers in 2004. That lesson in symmetry resulted in 6 INTs on the day. The rest of the games can be found here and were mostly 3/2 or 2/3 splits between the two halves. But who cares about those -- It's not like any of them was a rookie throwing 5 INTs in one half in his 1st ever start, am I right? Actually, now that I think about it, I'm fairly certain that Nathan Peterman is the only guy on this list who was playing in his 1st NFL start. At least, since 1999. One more "Fun 5INT Fact" for today: A QB has thrown 5 INTs in a game 225 times in NFL history.

See, now this is the kind of thing we need more of around this place. Namath went for 280 on 43 attempts that day. I looked up how many games a QB threw for over 250 yds there were in 1968 -- I was kind of surprised that there were 62 of them, 30 in the AFL and 32 in the NFL. I would have guessed there would have been fewer than that. Here's a link to the full list if you're interested. http://pfref.com/tiny/hfLxB

Actually, it wasn't even about that... It was about how many 5 INT games there have been since 1999 and how surprising it was to see that the Bills defense has caused the most. But your point still stands.

Let's use your hypothetical. Whatever it is that makes you rank Taylor at 99 and Peterman at 100 would be the thing that "impressed" you, relative to the other guy. It is the skill that one has that is -- in your opinion -- better than the other. Or it could be several skills that separate the two. What we are doing here is evaluating 26's "scouting report" on Peterman against a known entity, in this case it's Tyrod Taylor. So, using Taylor as the baseline, we're trying to figure out how much worse Peterman's skill set is, at least according to 26. Excellent point -- I didn't know this, and for the Peterman nay-sayers it's much more effective than "5 INTS, HAHAHA". It's definitely interesting as far as identifying possible later round draft "gems". Also, I think the standard for QB play is so low around here that if a rookie comes in and makes a couple of strong throws into traffic (Peterman to KB in LA, for one example), it's probably more impressive around here than it would be on a team that has had stronger play from the position.

Right. So forget the draft. Limiting the conversation to just Peterman and Taylor, you are not impressed with the NFL skill set of one guy... that would mean that you are impressed with the NFL skill set of the other. You called him the "best QB on the team". Simple logic.

Many dislike him because he can not run a functional passing offense. End of story. Has absolutely nothing to do with his height, race, where he was drafted, hat size, or favorite food.

But you are impressed by Taylor's skill set as a passer?

Ever stop to consider how those guys got to be included among those "few select QBs".... Or do passing yards only matter for Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rogers? 1. Rian Lindell, Dan Carpernter, and Stephen Hauschka say whats up. 2. 1995 called. It wants it's hot football take back.

Has less to do with Peterman, specifically and more to do with people being really tired of seeing Tyrod's JV offense every Sunday. Taylor's ceiling is well known and established at this point. Peterman is an unknown and I think people wanted to see if maybe the Bills got lucky in the 5th round. It's like a scratch-off ticket, basically. More than likely it's going in the garbage, but you never know until you take a look.

Peyton Manning's 3rd down efficiency is definitely what is going to put him in the Hall of Fame. Tom Brady must have lost a TON of games to pass for all those yards over the course of his career, too.

No argument here.

1. Since 2007, there have been 1,188 games where a QB has thrown for 300+ yards. The QB who threw for 300+ has won that game 644 times. The QB who threw for 300+ has lost that game 544 times. 2. ...and just how do teams go about accomplishing those two tasks? My guess is by moving the ball up and down the field. If only there were a statistic that measured such a thing.....

You are literally one small step away from saying that scoring points doesn't mean anything.

Since 1999 there have been 35 games where a QB has thrown 5 or more interceptions. The Bills defense is responsible for 4 of those games, which actually leads all NFL teams. Joe Flacco - 5 INTs in 2013, Bills win 23-20 Mark Sanchez - 5 INTs in 2009, Bills win 16-13 Tony Romo - 5 INTs in 2007, Bills lose 25-24 AJ Feeley - 5 INTs in 2004, Bills win 42-32 Carolina, Cincinnati, and Seattle are all tied at 3 games. Bonus: Since 1999, teams that intercept 5 or more passes in a game are a combined 33-2. The Bills are one of only two teams to lose a game in which they had 5 INTs. Arizona is the other -- they picked off Matt Ryan 5 times back in 2012 and lost to Atlanta 23-19.

What are you implying? A problem with my math? I was actually giving Tyrod a little leeway on the passing yards because of his ability to also produce offense running the ball. So for him, a season of 3400 passing yards, 20 TDs, and 4 INTs should be the standard for him. I just used Alex Smith to demonstrate that it is possible because they both have the same INT%.

I just looked it up, that list is kind of crazy. Peyton Manning had 6 INTs against San Diego back in 2007. Russell Wilson had 5 last year. Brees, Warner, Marino, Favre, Stafford, Bledsoe... all on there. Of course, there are also a few of the Harringtons and Feeleys of the world there, too. It looks like games like that are going to happen occasionally when you try to move the ball like an actual professional football team.

I have, and I always ask that when I see someone say he's a "Top 20 QB" and that "you could do a lot worse". Because I'd like to know how that particular individual got to that conclusion, since I don't agree -- it's called a "discussion". I might learn something new or might look at things a different way. Or, on the other hand, I might present something that other poster hadn't considered yet. No moving targets here. The "would you trade X for Taylor today?" question is, to me at least, the best way to slot him in the hierarchy of NFL QBs. The only time is seems to bother people is when it uncovers the reality that the "he's better than lots of guys out there" narrative isn't really true. Otherwise, you tend to get really bogged down in the minutia of obscure game splits and stats, and making all sorts of excuses and "if they would only" statements that you don't afford to the players you are comparing him to. If you're looking to find the overall place of the 60-70 or so guys that are #1 or #2 QBs in the league right now, he's probably right in the middle, 30-35. I just can't see placing a guy who has 2800 yards passing and 14 TDs any higher than that, simply because he doesn't throw any INTs. Taylor's INT stat would be really impressive if it came with another 500-600 yards passing and 6 more TDs. For example, Alex Smith had 5 INTs this year... but also 26 TDs and over 4000 yards to go with them.

I don't think they can. That Jaguar defense is ferocious, especially the secondary. There's a good chance they would eat the kid alive, and once you consider how that Charger game went down... Even if Taylor is a train wreck, I think he stays in the game unless he gets hurt. Hopefully, he can catch fire and be the guy that people around here think he is. Like I said earlier somewhere, it would be really nice to see a Bills QB be the best player on the field and really dominate the game for a change. It's been a very long time since we've had something like that around here.

Ben Roethlisberger threw 5 interceptions in a game this year. Two of them went back for TDs. Have you ever taken a look at the list of guys who have thrown 5 INTs in a game? ***Disclaimer: This is in no way, shape, or form meant to imply that I think Peterman is the next Ben Roethlisberger or next great NFL QB. It is simply to point out that it really doesn't provide any relevant insight into what kind of career he will eventually have. The kid very well might be selling real estate in 3 years. It is even dumber to use this single game to try and artificially enhance Tyrod Taylor's value as a starter.***

What legitimate starting QBs are actually worse? There are maybe 5-6 you wouldn't trade Tyrod straight up for. He put up 2800 yards passing and 14 TDs. Those are rookie numbers.

What exactly is so false or ridiculous that you disagree with?