HomeskillitMoorman
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Posts posted by HomeskillitMoorman
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I'd rather Peterman play. At least there's an entertainment value there. I don't see what we get at all out of Derek Anderson playing.
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4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:
He got hit. You can have the best line in the league and guys get hit. He was injured because of the number of hits, he got injured because of where he was hit.
I'm not talking about that one play. The o-line is horrendous in general.
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4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:
Lolz at this board.
Its really all code for "we are losing so the rebuild isn't working"
You can really hide it in whatever justification you like, the fact is you don't like the pains of a rebuild.
Step one was always get the QB. Now they got him. Now they build around him. Its hard to judge the progress of Allen because he hasn't really played and has been denied the chance to develop.
Who has he been denied the chance to develop by? This regime. That's really my point here .
Was part of step one to get the QB and provide no protection around him for his first year of development? It was either a failure of talent evaluation or being inept in organizational planning. I personally just don't think either bodes well.
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9 minutes ago, mjt328 said:
Bottom line. You cannot judge whether this rebuild is successful, UNTIL it has been completed.
The argument I keep seeing is that a poor O-Line and lack of WR talent is going to damage Josh Allen's long-term development. But I don't necessarily think that is true. The top drafted QBs in 2016 and 2017 - Jared Goff and Mitch Trubisky - both had terrible offensive players around them as rookies. And both struggled horribly in their initial seasons. But it didn't stunt their long-term development. Both guys took massive steps forward in their sophomore seasons.
Despite what some people may believe, I think the Bills are very much on track to be competitive within the 3rd Year of the rebuild.
If you were to look around the league, you would find that a GM can address approximately 25% percent of the roster per year. In the two Beane/McDermott offseasons, they have addressed QB (Allen), WR1 (Benjamin), WR2 (Jones), LT (Dawkins), DE (Murphy), DT1 (Lotulelei), DT2 (Phillips), WLB (Milano), MLB (Edmunds), CB (White), SS (Hyde) and FS (Poyer) with Day 1-2 Picks or significant Free Agent contracts. That's 12 of the 22 starting spots (4 on offense, 8 on defense). Even if you consider the WR selections busts, we are right on track.
The focus on the defense has clearly worked, and that side of the ball looks very good. The offense has barely been touched, and it's hard to judge whether Benjamin or Jones were good additions, because they are getting dragged down by a rookie QB. Which should ABSOLUTELY be expected. But next offseason, Beane will have plenty of picks and cap space to add another 3-4 linemen, 1-2 receivers, a tight end and maybe even a future replacement for Shady. If we do that and Allen takes a step forward, you will be surprised how many games the Bills can win.
I'm not sure how a position can be counted as "addressed" if those players aren't any good.
With Allen I'd say they've potentially addressed the QB position, but I agree with your other post that you have to keep drafting and bringing in different QB's every year to see if you can either find a diamond in the rough in case that top pick doesn't pan out or to develop a quality backup.
WR I don't agree at all. Benjamin doesn't fight for the ball, I don't see how that would change with better QB play. I don't think he's anywhere close to a WR1, and the way he's played most of this year, not even a WR2. Jones is showing some improvement but not at WR2 level. I think he's a WR3 at best. We need at least one top talent there and another very solid option. TE is a definite need. And we have 1 legit starter on the o-line, we need 4 more. On D we still need a linebacker, an edge rusher, and a corner. And obviously we need depth on both sides of the ball.
I can't agree that this is on track after 2 offseasons. That's a lot of holes, and they haven't showed the ability to fill holes with quality, not just literally filling them, at a fast enough pace to think they can even approach all of that in this one coming offseason.
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2 minutes ago, dneveu said:
They will improve the offensive line in the offseason. They will add WRs in the offseason. I think Shady is set here for 1 more year because why mess with it. He can still be a weapon in the 200 touch range, we'll still have murphy and ivory. The offense needs to be overhauled around that. The only oline guys who look like theyre likely to stick would be Bodine, Ducasse, Dawkins, maybe Teller/Mcdermott - and thats because they're under contract. I think they need to bring in 3 new guys though. WR they need at least 2 new starters, and i think the depth can improve too.
They've been able to find 1 passable starter on the o-line in 2 offseasons...but they're going to find 4 this upcoming one? And they need a whole new set of WR's and TE's. The RB's are OK but Shady and Ivory are probably close to the end and Murphy's OK but not really a starting RB of the future.
2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:Progression is almost never always trending up.......for us it is has been and is going to be all over the place
year 1 - make the playoffs......who does that in a rebiuld
year 2 - this year.....more in line with what a rebiuld looks like
year 3 - who knows?
There simply is not enough data to even know yet. I know this. If we are not aggressively improving this offense in the offseason I will be off this current bills management train.
That's because you're only looking at this from a record standpoint. I don't think that's what a rebuild is all about. To me, it's about development. 2 years in we have absolute zero development on the most important part of a football team in today's league.
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2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:
I agree that we are in year 2 of the rebiuld.......the problem i am having with your idea is that you think rebiulds should take 2 years max.
That is not the way Beane and McD did it......I totally respect the opinions of ppl that didnt like the approach that Beane and McD took.....but....THIS IS THE WAY THEY CHOSE TO DO IT
The dead cap situation (which yes they created) made it impossible to be competative this year. My personal opinion now is that they expected to be bad on offense....but not THIS bad.
You dont get a top 5 pick in the draft by being good. It shocks me a little bit that we were not sellers at the trade deadline to accumulate even more picks.
I never said 2 years max, in fact multiple times I've said 3 is usually the standard. But even then, it's more about progression. With the way Beane and McDermott accumulated assets to trade up for a franchise QB...they seemed to have some level of understanding of how important that is. And that was the plan for 2 offseasons. But along the way, they decided not to protect that QB or give him anyone to throw to. This is basically going to be a complete year wasted of offensive development because even if Allen does come back, they're just going to continue to run this bland, conservative offense that is not the modern offense that you have to be building towards anyway. THAT'S my problem.
This is far and away an offense-first league if you want to be good for an extended period of time...and somehow this regime has put it completely on the backburner.
3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:Are you saying that more talent around Allen would NOT have made a difference? Really?
No. The exact opposite.
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2 minutes ago, Fred Clause said:
But you do care about the 2-6 thing, and if you had been paying attention you would realize certain sacrifices were made to get to the point they could be free from the issues of the prior regime. If the offense is not satisfactorily addressed next year, they will be considered failures and most likely will be fired then.
Nobody knows if And when Allen will return this season and what if any progress he will make. Stating you know how this will all play out is a lie, nobody knows for sure...
I don't care at all about 2-6. I'd be happier if we were 0-8 but had some level of decent protection for our rookie QB and at least a couple of weapons and see the development of a real offense. That's where this league is if you want a perennial contender. No team in this league sustains a great defense for a long period of time anymore. It's going to fluctuate. Having a top level QB is the way to become a contender year after year.
Nothing being said here is subjective, unless you're arguing that more talent around a rookie QB would somehow be a deterrent. And if you're arguing that, I don't really know what to say.
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23 minutes ago, Watkins90 said:
We are in year 1 of the rebuild.
Making the playoffs last year wiped out that year being a rebuilding year no matter what moves were made.
We're in year 2. How in the world does last season wipe out a year?
The job of a new regime when they come aboard is to evaluate and determine the direction of the organization. They did that and decided to rebuild. The team was mediocre, got to 9-7 and with a little luck, made the playoffs. And I gave the regime credit for continuing the rebuild because I agreed that the team was mediocre at best without a high ceiling. There's no point in being mediocre. It was the right thing to do to continue the rebuild.
But they haven't amassed the amount of talent they should have after 2 offseasons. We still have the entire offense to go and we need to get younger at a couple of positions on defense. This is at least 2 offseasons of work, maybe more based on the pace that we're on now. In today's NFL, it's a slow pace, and front offices that are slow in this league don't last very long.
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3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:
I think we are gonna pick up some wins when Josh gets back......
We may not end up picking in the top 5 at all
If I remember right, your excuse for this regime is that they're trying to lose. Would they then be failing if we pick up some wins in the 2nd half?
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So the handling of the QB position for this year would have been fine if he had signed Derek Anderson at the beginning of the year? Anderson stinks. Hire him or someone else as a coach if you want Allen to have a mentor, why waste a spot on a guy who can't play?
There should have been either another young QB or a guy they thought could be a long-term backup that could basically audition for the role this year. Having Derek Anderson start games is just throwing them away. They should be using these games during the rebuild so much more wisely.
And that's not even touching on the fact that both of them felt and still feel that Peterman is a legit NFL starter/QB2 tweener.
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I'm not talking about the record, I've never cared about that for this season. But I think that's what some people think rebuilding is, and that's all it is. There's a development process within rebuilding that the regime should be judged on as they go, they're not successfully rebuilding because we stink. What I wanted to see was organizational progress, and the #1 priority there is the development of the guy they used a lot of assets and draft capital to get...yet we're basically going to lose an entire year of legitimate development for him.
How it can be excused that after 2 offseasons with this regime, knowing the franchise QB they picked would be the difference between it being a success or a failure, that we have absolutely no protection or weapons for him? I don't know that he's going to be good even with that, I don't know if he has the accuracy to be a top level QB, but we have to find out as soon as possible.
And what faith, not in the McDermott/Peterman way, are we supposed to have that this regime can identify talent on the o-line when after 2 offseasons we have one passable starter? Are we supposed to be confident that they can find 4 before next season? Let alone skill players at almost every single offensive position.
The progression during the rebuild is what needs to be looked at, and I think it's alarming how many holes we have after 2 offseasons. A successful rebuild in today's NFL should really happen in 3 years and we're not even close to that. The organizational planning is also very concerning, most notably with obviously how the QB situation was so badly handled this year. When you watch these games from Peterman and Anderson...this is the brainpower and evaluation abilities of Beane and McDermott at work.
I don't care about being 2-6 or whatever we end up with. But to basically lose an entire precious year of development on the offensive side of the ball doesn't instill much faith in Beane and McDermott's ability to rebuild.
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3 hours ago, CLTbills said:
I don't really think he's "picking" Peterman in this case. Everybody else is hurt.
I'm not going to excuse him for picking him last year over Tyrod, or week 1 over Josh and AJ.
But in this case, who else was he supposed to pick?Who's fault is that? This regime made him a top 2 QB for the organization coming into the year, and not only that, decided he was good enough to be so reliable that he could start and then later on be the primary back up for Allen...fully knowing that the pickings would be incredibly slim on getting anyone half-decent during the season.
People are acting like this situation was forced upon this regime. It wasn't. It's happened because of Beane and McDermott's incredible level of failure with the most important position in sports.
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Even though it would take away from the fun at the "Cuse...bring in Dino!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbC693EX4cM
The guy's done an incredible job and knows offense. Took a HORRIFIC Cuse program and has them ranked in his 3rd year. And came super close to upsetting Clemson for a 2nd year in a row.
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14 hours ago, Rico said:
"Bring me back, and this time let me hire Hue Jackson!"
Ugh that guy. I gotta say though, I love that jacket. I'm already looking for it online.
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1 minute ago, MDH said:
I don't mind a rebuild. What I mind is it taking two full seasons to rip out the foundation before the rebuild can actually begin. This is some ridiculous 4 year plan and in the modern NFL it isn't necessary. Teams can be rebuilt in 2 years and in some cases, the very next year.
There was no need to jettison players the way they have been. You don't have to take two years to "clear the cap" you can do it bit by bit every year.
Yup, I agree with the 4 year plan thing, and I think even that is a longshot at this point. It shouldn't take that long if you have the right people in place.
We're also basically wasting an entire season's worth of games on the offensive end because outside of possibly Allen and Dawkins...I'm not sure we literally have another starter quality player that's being developed. I said from the beginning that I didn't care about the record for the first couple of years, I just wanted to see some legit young talent being developed. Instead, we're both losing and we're bereft of talent. Bad combo.
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Just now, Gigs said:
Should’ve built on that team he lead to the playoffs instead of deciding it wasn’t his team, like some egotistical prick.
I actually think it was the right thing to do to continue with the rebuild. I thought that team was mediocre at best and didn't have a high ceiling, and it was a little flukey that they made the playoffs.
What I don't like is the way the rebuild is going so far. Not by record, but talent-wise we should be further along after 2 offseasons than we are. We basically have an entire offense to build still after 2 years.
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1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:
Enjoy the whine fest.....your tears are clogging up the board
Yup, there it is again. If someone disagrees with anything...they're whining. But of course you're not a homer.
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6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:
I am simply saying that if this is causing you that much pain there is probably another team out there that would make this more enjoyable for you.....
If fandom is being out there criticising ever little move and not seeing the big picture of the team......that sounds like a poor choice of your time
Again...what YOU think is the big picture of the team. Many people disagree that management is taking this in the right direction. Doesn't mean they need to leave.
Sometimes I think about how cults were formed or how so many people were on board with slavery or with the Nazi's...and then I see things like this and remember how people think this way.
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Just now, John from Riverside said:
WTF....how is it irrelevent...if they are losing on purpose then they are doing EXACTLY WHAT THEY SET OUT TO DO
It has nothing to do with being a homer...it has to do with waiting to see the final product...which is not coming this season.
Because that's YOUR opinion, and you're telling people that if they don't agree with management, they shouldn't be fans of the team anymore. That has EVERYTHING to do with being a homer. It's the very definition.
If you're just debating that you believe Beane and McDermott have a direction and that you feel they're doing a great job...whatever...but telling people they should jump off the bandwagon if they don't think that is telling people to be blind followers.
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1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:
I think they are losing on purpose
Completely irrelevant. You just told people who have been debating, civilly, about the job the GM and coach are doing without ever mentioning wanting to stop being a Bills fan to jump off the bandwagon...meaning you believe that being a fan means you should just support management at every turn.
At least own that you think being a homer for management is part of being a fan, because you just very bluntly demonstrated it.
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2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:
I see a train stop ahead......it would be a good place for the bandwagon to get a little lighter
Door is thhhhhhaaaatawaaaay........feel free to use it
So you're essentially admitting that you believe being a homer is part of being a fan. If you disagree with management or don't think they're getting the job done...you shouldn't be a fan of the team. So that means anything you say has to be taken with a huge grain of salt because you believe part of being a fan is to blindly agree with everything management does, right?
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5 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:
Josh Allen is the centerpiece of this team like it or not. The Bills need to build around Allen's strengths. Mobility and arm strength are his his best attributes. The Bills need to design plays that best fit his talent and he is comfortable with. They need to draft mobile offensive linemen that can pull and are good at screen blocking. They need receivers who can be deep threats whom Allen can get the ball to. They need sure handed Tight end who can block and a north/South running back who can catch.. A good offensive coordinator does not make a QB fit their offense, you make the offensive fit your QB. The offensive should run sweeps, screens and roll out passes so a defense cannot target one spot on the field. Allen can roll left and fire the ball to the right for big plays.
Well we've had 2 offseasons under this regime and still need an entire offense. We're on pace to possibly fill all of these holes by the time Allen retires.
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1 minute ago, Jobot said:
Disagree that you can claim this.. I think we've seen plenty from the defensive side. The thing about the 40% stat of the team made up by year 1 and 2 players is that year 1 and 2 players have THE most room to improve (when compared to a veteran). So the Bills have got significant upswing potential on their roster.
Shore up the O-Line in the draft.
Add an explosive WR in FA40% of the roster now in year 2 and 3 results in improved play
...I just don't think tossing McDermott is the best idea.
You're overrating what we have and marginalizing how much we need.
What players on the offensive side of the ball do you think are potential legitimate starters on a championship caliber team? That's the end-game here right? A player being young doesn't automatically mean he's going to improve just because he has the most room.
And "shore up the o'line in the draft"? Do you know how much we need on the o-line? It's not like we're missing one piece. We have 1 legit starter on the O-line, and that's after 2 offseasons. We're supposed to believe that they're going to find 4 in one?
We have no starter quality WR"s or TE's. Our 2 best RB's are both 30.
It's a total mess. It's almost hard to believe we're this bereft of talent after 2 offseasons. Even by shear, dumb luck we should have more than this.
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1 minute ago, Success said:
No, but I can guess at what they’re doing. It’s a total rebuild - which they will never tell the media.
Fans here aren’t used to that kind of rebuild. We’re used to regimes that try to take half measures in the spirit of staying minimally competitive.
That's being used a crutch now. Part of the rebuilding process, a big part, is talent development. Who's being developed right now on the offensive side of the ball? What are we getting out of having Derek Anderson start these games? Why don't we have another young QB that we could be giving these valuable starts to develop as a legitimate backup or possible starter in case Allen's a bust? They've had 2 offseasons to find one. They watched Peterman last year, it was definitely enough to see he wasn't a guy they should have solely relied on to be the backup.
Beane and McDermott are either inept or flat out lazy for not being able to find literally ANY other options. Neither is a good thing.
THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Just Plain Bad
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Great post. And a scary one. Coaching is a big problem that's being excused by many since it's a rebuilding year. A rebuild has to be executed successfully for it to work, and that's all about player and team development. I went into this season saying I didn't care about the record, and I don't. It's all about organizational progression...and we're not seeing any.