Mikey152

Honestly, they came out of the gate swinging...looked like they just lost a bit of steam at the half. Hard to keep that kind of energy the whole game, especially against an opponent who wasn't backing down from a fight. Luckily they won enough rounds early in the fight to hold on and still win it.

Lamar is an extreme, and because of that there are a wide variety of opinions. Most people will agree he is a great football player, but I think where you get a lot of differing opinions is when you start talking about him as a quarterback. Lamar is not a great thrower of the football by NFL standards. He just isn't. On top of that, he doesn't throw a lot of timing/anticipation passes. Despite that, he had CRAZY passing stats this season because he and Derrick Henry are possibly the best running attack in the history of the NFL, and easily the best this season in a time where most defenses are geared to stop the pass. This leads to lots of heavy boxes and tired defenders, and also leads to teams being afraid to play man and let him scramble all over them. So, a lot of his relative weaknesses don't really get exposed because his strengths prevent teams from exploiting them (most of the time). In the playoffs, it doesn't work as well. Defenses can slow down the run without being complete sieves in the passing game. If they can force him to be even sort of a traditional QB, he gets exposed. It isn't easy, and he is improving from bad to below average as a passer, but he's just never gonna be a great QB in the traditional sense. We will never know if that actually matters, but it is a great experiment. I feel like Jayden Daniels is an even better version, and one day someone will come along who can truly do it all and be unstoppable.

I take these with a grain of salt...these guys don't know the progression or the keys. They are guessing.

He didn't say it like that...Vinovich clearly wasn't scolding him. I think Josh is just a classy guy who put that situation on himself instead of the refs. They will appreciate that.

The problem is, "you" talk about McDermott like he is just the DC. He is the HC. He is in charge of the defense AND the offense AND the special teams. Everyone talks about how great Joe Brady is, but it is McDermott who fired Dorsey in the middle of a season in favor of Brady, and who hired him in the first place. It's also silly to think McDermott has no say on our offensive gameplan, active roster, etc. You guys used to laugh at him when he said complementary football, but look at what the idea of a balanced team has brought. McDermott has had a top offense practically his whole time here in Buffalo, and most here would have you believe the Bills accomplish this almost in spite of him. but the defense? Oh, that's 100% his fault.

Agree 100% on the spots...like a full yard off on several occasions.

I think it’s the assistant coaches… Joe Brady and Bobby Babich are considerably younger and less stuffy than the previous guys. Not sure if that reflects Sean loosening up, or caused him to loosen up, but either way they really seem to have him focusing on being a head coach and motivator these days.

I don’t know what to tell you…no Johnson, no Bernard, Rapp hurt early tackling Henry. The middle of the defense was in rough shape. Bishop, Lewis, Spector, Morrow…yes, they were missing leadership on the backend

The Bills are…well planned. Lots of depth, lots of complimentary pieces. Leads to a good team that’s greater than the sum of its parts. All that said, it probably doesn’t work without a guy like Josh Allen running the show.

You missed the part where when the Bills went to three LB without Milano and Bernard, they got destroyed by the RB passing game to Justice Hill and passes over the middle. Spin it any way you want, but Bernard and Johnson are two of their 5 best defenders, and arguably the two most important leaders. The same reason he was voted most overrated.

We already went over this…Tua was hurt for a significant portion of their season. Last year, He threw for almost 4700 yards and 29TDs with almost 100 less attempts than Burrow had this year and RBs that scored a ton of touchdowns. make any excuses you want, But Burrow played 17 games this year and didn’t make the playoffs. If Tua had been healthy all year, it’s all but a lock they finish with a better record than the Bengals. Its disingenuous to call them garbage and the Bengals basically a playoff team, especially because both times the Bills played the Dolphins Tua was on the field. i am not retconning anything, btw. I am just pointing out that twisting records or statistics to make a player or team look better or worse shouldnt and doesn’t fly. At the end of the day, the only team of any consequence that the Ravens beat was the Bills, and they beat them by abusing the backups in the middle of the field. They also lost to two of the worst teams in the league.

That’s a lot of retcon and one-sided arguing… Take the Bengals for example…how are they much different from a team like the Dolphins? Honestly, they’re really pretty similar, and even finished pretty much the same way. The only difference is the Bengals were bad because they let defensive players walk and the Dolphins were bad this year because their quarterback was hurt (but he played in both games against Buffalo). Just like the 49ers were bad because Mccaffery was hurt (but he played against the Bills). Same with the Texans and Rams who were, you guessed it, healthier for the Bills game. At the start of the season, the Bills had a WAY tougher schedule on paper. Most of the teams that didn’t perform did so due to injury…but they weren’t injured against the Bills. Speaking of injury, why does nobody mention injury when we talk about that first meeting with the Ravens? Bernard and Johnson were both out and Shakir got hurt in that game…and that is exactly what the Ravens targeted. They won’t be able to do that this time around.

I don’t think I agree on the schedule. those 5 games for the Bills were all division winners and included both #1 seeds. They also played both #1 seeds and the final 4 from last season this year. meanwhile, more than half of the ravens games against playoff teams were against wildcard teams…they also lost to the best AND worst teams in the NFL.

To me, that is the real key. Anybody who uses stats to say Lamar is better (or Josh for that matter) is instantly tuned out in my book. I have watched a handful of Ravens games this season, and a bunch more over Lamar's career. There isn't one single time I have EVER thought Lamar Jackson was a better player than Josh Allen...not 1. Heck, there are still some routes he can't reliably complete. He is not a complete quarterback. But, Baltimore does a great job hiding his weaknesses and playing to his strengths most of the time, so he is productive and they win a lot. Derrick Henry was a stroke of genius. To me, Lamar as MVP is a joke. He's the definition of a system quarterback.

my bad on Ed…I knew I was missing one. And yes, I know it is possible, but chances go way down. And for the record, they HAVE DRAFTED all pros. They drafted Tre White, Matt Milano, and Taron Johnson. Injuries suck.

To be fair, Josh is also the only pick they made in the top 10 of the draft, and most of their first picks are in the 20s. The odds of grabbing elite players goes way down back there. It’s not impossible, but it is more difficult.

McNabb's 2004 season (the year they went to the SB) was his FIFTH probowl season in a row, and objectively very comparable to Josh's 2024 statistically and record wise. He might not have been Josh Allen, but he wasn't exactly a scrub, either.

Nobody is saying it isn’t true…just maybe a bit exaggerated, while in turn minimizing similar indirect contributions of other players. It starts to feel like a narrative. cooper cost a third round pick and his contract is dirt cheap. It was a great deal even if he is just a role player, especially if it is a role that was sorely needed. Where you are getting push back is when you try and spin it as an indictment against the team and the WR situation heading into the season, where they didn’t have a number 1 or any good receivers, because Cooper isn’t fitting your own criteria here in Buffalo. It feels hypocritical. but I get it…it isn’t really about WR at all. It’s about not trusting this team to get it done because they always fail.

This thread is like 200 pages long…subtle debate died long ago. but yes, the hyperbole was strong in that post and intentional. For me, this isn’t about being right or wrong…I couldn’t care less. It’s the negativity. As a wise poster once messages me "I'm not at all convinced that everything is going to work out well, but on the other hand, there's nothing wrong in thinking it should." The reality is, this thread was never really about WR. It’s about trusting (or not trusting) the people at one bills drive. My position is and always will be that one bills drive has a plan and it COULD work, not that it WILL. For whatever reason, there is a sizable number of posters on this message board that just cannot get on that train. I get they are frustrated, but at what point do you take a look in the mirror and realize you’re turning against your own team and fellow fans due to your anger?

This, right here, is the hypocrisy I am talking about. Amari gets TONS of credit for the offenses performance the last 8 weeks ( despite only playing in 6 games). His INDIVIDUAL PRODUCTION (snaps, targets, catches, yards, TDs) doesnt signal #1 receiver on this team, and they sure don’t signal # 1 we in the NFL. But, you know…he’s Amari Cooper. Hes making a huge difference you just can’t see it in the numbers. He dictates coverage, even when he is on the sideline he is so good. the rest of the receivers, though? Still trash. I mean, look at their numbers! They’re better than Amaris, sure, but that’s only because the whole team covers Cooper when he is on the field and they run the ball when he isn’t (and we all know WR have nothing to do with running the football). Amari Cooper is a good player. I am glad he is on the Bills..but this need to be right in your negativity is compromising your common sense. Regarding your charts from earlier…the offense also got better with Coleman and Kincaid out of the lineup. Do they make us worse? Or maybe, just maybe…it’s more complicated than a single variable.

Important is relative... Hollins, Knox, Anderson and Coleman dictates coverage just as much as a package with Cooper does, just in a different way. Put Cooper in for Hollins and it doesn't work as well. This was the whole point. All the receivers play a role on this team. Cooper didn't change that, he just majorly upgraded their weakest role player. Let me put it another way. Having a guy that can punish man coverage is a a weapon that helps the offense. Forcing the ball to said player to keep him happy or not having other options when he is covered/hurt holds a team back. That's really it. I didn't think Samuel could be 2020 Diggs, but I thought he could be second half of last year Diggs and the other guys got better. So now Cooper is second half of last year Diggs (without the crazy) and the rest of the guys are better and the offense is great.

Meh, depends on the look. Against man, probably. Against zone? Unlikely. Again, what you are describing is an important player...but I can tell you that I think they play better if Cooper is out than if Shakir is. I also think I'd take 2024 Hollins and Coleman over 2023 Davis and Diggs. Really, it was some combination of Samuel/MVS/Claypool et al, but yes. I think I (and the Bills) thought they could burn an aggressive defense with Samuel and MVS. Clearly that was wrong. But by the same token, we WERE right about something that seems to get lost in making that point. The idea was a good one, they just signed the wrong guy. Clearly this everybody eats philosophy has merit, and it really isn't made for a "true" #1 that commands 100+ targets either. I don't think Diggs would help like Cooper does, for example. Same threat, different attitude breaks the offense in a different way. And yes, Mack doesn't dictate coverage. But he does improve the run game and the RAC game significantly. It is not a coincidence that we have more long YAC and rushing plays this season. Downfield blocking is a big part of that.

Cooper was an indictment on Samuel and MVS, to a lesser extent..not the WR room or offensive philosophy. I think this would have been a very different thread if someone had said "This offense could work, but they're really gonna struggle against pressure man looks because CS and MVS aren't good enough there and Coleman is too young" Instead, most of what we saw in this thread was you need a #1 WR that gets 100 targets and 1000 yards to be successful.

I sort of a agree and sort of don't. I do think that Cooper plays an important role on the team, and raises the floor. But I don't think he is the go to guy on this offense. I'm not even sure he is the second or third guy. But that's just it...that don't really play like that anymore. All 5 skill guys are that guy in the right circumstances, and that's what makes them hard to defend.

Yes, indirect correlation...I get it, and I even agree. His presence keeps teams honest and lets Shakir operate against more zone coverage. That was likely Samuel's role and why most of Amari's snaps correlate to CS and not Keon, Mack or Khalil. The reason I find it amusing isn't because I think you are wrong...it's because that was the same argument for why guys like Mack Hollins are more valuable than their stats. The key is balance.