Zerovoltz
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Just now, McBean said:
The annual “wait til next year to draft QB” thread.
A Buffalo Bills fan tradition since Jim Kelly.
I'm actually advocating that the Bills draft one this year.....just illustrating how much more bleek 2019 looks
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Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:
Which means we should get one this year.
Just now, NewDayBills said:No. We get a QB this year. Anything less than that is a failure.
both of you clearly didn't read that book I just wrote...that's what I said in the post.
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Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:
And what QBs are coming out then?
I've seen Drew Lock listed at No.1 on some lists....it's not an impressive list.
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With the situation at this point still being so fluid, none of us really know who is going to end up where. We do know that as of today, the Bills are at 21/22, and that's all we really know. We don't know if they will be compelled to trade up, or if someone is willing to trade back, or if the guy they want, if they like one of them, will even be there. There are several teams in the "Franchise QB" market even as there are plenty of journeyman types out there, and Kirk Cousins who will be someones franchise QB soon enough.
What if the Bills simply can't get the guy they want went the dust settles? It might not even be due to lack of interest or lack of trying...just being in the position they are in could simply mean they lose by default this go round.
In 2019, should the Bills be in the market again, let's consider who else could be in that market. Let me speculate about 2018 first.
Cleveland is going to end up with a QB one way or another in this draft.
The Giants MIGHT take one, or trade out. I am going to call it now that they DO NOT take one in round 1 this year.
The Colts shouldn't be in the QB market now, but I can't 100% call that until Luck throws some passes. Reports are that he won't need another shoulder surgery, but he still hasn't thrown. For the sake of this post, I'll assume he is healthy. No QB now, No QB next year.
Denver- is a real wild card here. I don't think they are going to be able to sell Cousins on winning now in Denver, nor will they make the highest offer. I'd say they lose out on Cousins, but sign BRADFORD. (could be Keenum...half a dozen of one, 6 of the other ...whatever) They could still take one to develope, but that would be counter to trying to win now. The coaching staff is being given THIS YEAR, the roster window is basically THIS YEAR. They have holes to fill THIS YEAR. Elway may not have the green light to go QB after missing on Oswieler and Lynch...They may be inclined to wait until next year just because of where they are with their roster. Taking the QB now, with the coaching staff you are going to fire if they don't win now, is poor form. Lynch is still on the roster and while they may have determined he sucks....the situation almost demands he get one more shot before they tear down the whole thing...the roster, the staff..maybe even Elway himself. It seems like the timing is all off for Denver to be drafting one high. The one caveat being Josh Allen. If Denver can get him, I think that is who Elway loves and would be willing to go up and get him if they can make a deal to get to 1. I am going to say, in the end, Cleveland keeps the 1 and takes Josh Allen.
Jets- This is another team that will end up with a QB be it Cousins or a draft pick. I am going to say that I think the Vikings are the leader in the clubhouse for Cousins. Cousins can get paid there, have a stable front office and roster, and coaching staff all there. The jets roster and staff or in limbo. So for 2018....Allen goes 1. Giants go Barkley. Colts go Chubb. Cleveland could look to trade back at 4, but dont' and go Minka Fitzpatrick. Denver again is the trade up wildcard here. If Bufalo likes Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, they will need to be on the phone. I think the Jets will possibly pay a price just to move up to 3,4 or 5 and go with Mayfield. If not, Arizona will be hot on the phone to get up here for one of those 3. i don't know who arizona likes out of that grouping. I do think the Jets love Mayfield...either they have to go up a few spots to get him, or they get word that Arizona is coming up for Rosen or Darnold and stay put. Either way, the Jets are going to be Baker Mayfields new team.
Assuming Arizona has traded up at this point, and the Jets have taken Mayfield....then it gets interesting for the trade up teams because that means Darnold, Jackson, and Rudolph are still on the board and the next several teams aren't in the QB market.
If this plays out as I have it here, you are looking at dark horse teams who might be interested in moving up to grab Darnold. Miami could suddenly find itself interested in going QB. Cincy could consider going QB as they will have lost MacCaron. the Saints could be interested in finding Drew Brees replacement, and the Chargers might be looking at Phillip Rivers successor. All but New Orleans is currently ahead of the Bills....but at this point, the Bills draft Ammo is more than sufficient to get up there...the problem is, do they like Darnold, Rudolph or Jackson?
Since this is about looking ahead to 2019, I will assume ONE of those teams trades up or stays put and lands Darnold. Then it becomes a two horse show. Does Buffalo like Rudolph or Jackson enough to move up if they feel they need to? Do they stay put and see if one of them makes it to them? Do they even want either of those two? for the sake of argument, lets say that they DO NOT go QB for whatever reason at this point.....you are looking at QB again in 2019....so what does that look like?
First lets examine who might be in the QB market.
Chargers if they don't get Rivers successor this year
Saints if they don't get Brees successor this year
Steelers if they think Ben is considering retiring
Bengals if they are tired of Dalton and don't get a replacement this year.
Oakland if Gruden decides Carr can't be redeemed.
Tampa if they sour on Winston
Tennesee if they sour on Mariotta.
Miami if Tannehill can't stay healthy and they didn't draft a round 1 guy this year.
Denver if the whole thing comes crashing down.
All of these teams aren't certain to be in the QB market....a lot of things would have to play out to have any of them shopping for one. Let's go with Cincy being finished with Andy Dalton, being the actual main threat to draft one high. The Chargers, Saints and probalby Oakland will have a good record so will be drafting late even if they are looking QB. Miami won't be in the market if Tannehill is healthy and puts up Top 15 numbers...that's a reasonable expectation.
Tennessee might be growing a bit tired of Mariotta, but I don't think they give up on him yet. Same with Tampa and Winston...and Winston has at least had some big stats here and there.
that means really there might be 2-3 teams really in the "draft a franchise QB" mode to compete with the Bills.
Next years Class does not look strong as of now...it could change....but Drew Lock as the top of the class next year would make me consider what's out there in 2018 pretty hard. I am a Missouri Fan, and I love Drew Lock as my Tigers QB....I don't think I'd want him leading my NFL team.
So, summing it up.....Even though there would seem to be fewer NFL teams with a need in the 2019 draft for a QB, and that the Bills might be better positioned in that draft to get one, the class seems pretty weak at least this far out. You'd be kicking that can another year down the road for likely an even less appealing option than this year.
In conclusion. Now is the time to make it happen. Good luck.
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From what I have seen of him, his ceiling is Trent Green. Green needed parts around him to be good, but he was very good in Dick Vermiels offenses based on timing routes. Green did NOT have an elite arm...he had a damn good brain and could execute that offense and those routes very well. You can do worse than a Trent Green clone.
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Couple of thoughts. I believe Denvers pick at 5 is going to be in play no matter what Cousins does. Denver is set up to win NOW. They have a coach basically coaching for his future this year, they have the team getting old and the window closing shortly, and John Elway, on top of needing to find players to win now, already swung and apparently missed ,or is still evaluating Paxton Lynch. If Cousins ins't in Denver, I'd bet that Sam Bradford is. Denver can stomach the injury history in exchange for a chance to keep the window open. Throw in that the longer this goes, the less enticing this class is...and that Denver may see 3 QB go off the board ahead of them....pick 5 is in play. And if the report is true that Cousins isn't considering the Bills or vice versa or both...then it will be imperative to get your QB....how will the fans possibly accept passing on Watson and Mahomes for draft capital that you don't end up spending now to address QB? One last thing.....for the Defense Wins Championships crowd....have you ever considered the possibility that a defense can perform much better when the QB on their team converts 3rd downs, scores points, doesn't make bad turnovers in his own end of the field? If you ask a defense to be great and win you a title that is a tall enough task as it is...but to overcome having to defend short fields, be on the field more often and the pressure to know your QB probalby isn't leading you to a comeback are major factors....it's part of why the teams with the franchise QB's keep showing up in the playoffs all the time....you can retool a defense and help it along with strong QB play...much harder the other way around.
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I'm on record in other threads here saying the same thing, but this is the guy that is going to have draft day stock go up. ....he's prototypical size...lots of reps...good arm...well spoken and articulate speaker....looks and sounds the part....Not comparing from a physical talent perspective, but that guy sounds JUST LIKE TRENT GREEN. This guy has more physical gifts than Green had....Green had to max out his brain to get the most out of his limited tools...and he did it....The guy sounds like he could confidently command a huddle. ....This is the guy I am predicting will be the ultimate winner out of this draft class. Allen will bust. ....I am on the fence about Jackson but heard his interviews today, and all I could think of listening to him speak was Geno Smith. .....anyhow.....Here is your target Bufallo. You missed Mahomes, but you can totally redeem the day, and WIN the KC trade by getting the franchise QB in this draft (because it will have paid off for you to get the high end CB AND the draft capital)
*Prediction* Rudolph goes in top 10. Buffalo will need to get up there.....and they have the ammo.
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On 2/23/2018 at 12:36 PM, YoloinOhio said:
Which is pretty damning since Andy Reid has happily coached a lot of knuckleheads in his career
This is the most disappointing part of all this....Reid is supposed to be able to handle this kind of player and get the value out of him.
On 2/23/2018 at 12:41 PM, YoloinOhio said:Chiefs are in rebuild mode with a RS rookie qb and will be moving on from guys like tamba hali, Derrick Johnson and Justin Houston
The Chiefs are NOT in rebuild mode. They are in fix the defense mode. Offense is locked and loaded. The players that have been let go, aside from Peters, were old very costly vets that played very little as it was, and didn't contribute to a bad defense. Eric Berry back from injury, Amerson and Fuller added to bad secondary.....and Ragland expected to step up and be leader in the middle.
....I would not have thought they would make this trade. From a purely football perspective, Peters will cost you from time to time with dumb fouls...but he is a turnover machine..teams don't throw his way much at all. A true shutdown corner. And on his cheap rookie deal. 3 million this year, 9 million next year....could franchise tag a third year at about 15 or so probalby...still a bargain for a CB of his caliber.
Given the LOW interest generated for him, he must be an awful nightmare in the locker room...he has NOT been a problem in the community at all. The Chiefs must be thinking this is "addition by subtraction" ....again from a football perspective, it makes no sense....gotta be a purely locker room/coaching issue driven move. Compensation still not announced, but we are expecting to be underwhelmed and hugely dissappointed in the return. In my opinion, you keep Peters and deal with him...he is worth more ON the team with his cheap contract, then not on with with the team getting a middling pick or 2. (BARF!)
The last bit about moving on from Houston seems interesting...no talk of it...but given that they have traded Peters...anything is possible I guess. I'd venture to guess he stays as his contract is a nightmare to trade away and his dead money is too painful for the team to cut him.
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3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:
Actually from what I've seen on film, you're describing Mayfield. Mayfield tends to miss open guys downfield and squirt out of the pocket too soon. He just doesn't use his legs as well as Jackson when he does. I'm uncertain about his ability to read a D, find lanes, or make progressions.
I think you're wrong about Jackson being a taller Taylor. Taylor at Virginia Tech had top passing yardage was 2700 yds his Sr year. He had 315 pass attempts to 146 pass attempts, meaning 1 out of every 3 times he put his hands on the ball, he ran with it. As far as I know, the Hokie offense was pretty much 1-read. Taylor still struggles to read the field and make progressions. He still doesn't throw with anticipation and he hesitates to throw into tight windows.
Jackson has a bunch of designed runs called for him, but he clearly reads a defense and makes progressions far more regularly (and better) than Taylor, or several other QB rated higher in the draft - Mayfield, Darnold, and Rudolph, I'd say. He doesn't have much of an OL, so he does roll out and improv, but he also steps up into throwing lanes and moves around in the pocket to shed defenders when he has one. His passing yardage is 3660 yds on 430 attempts which ~ Russ Wilson as a Jr. Jackson has 232 rushing attempts this past season to 430 passes, which makes him similar to Taylor in running one out of every 3 times he puts his hands on the ball, but when he doesn't run, he's clearly ahead of where Taylor was as a Sr. in reads/progressions, throwing with anticipation, and throwing into tight windows. His receivers are graded as "dropping" the ball the most of any of this year's top prospects: 11 or 12 percent drops, which I think explains his low completion %. He is accurate. Allen, whose low completion is being excused by drops and who is clearly not accurate at times, was 7 or 8% drops, Rosen is in-between.
Basically, Jackson has racked up similar passing numbers to Rosen (and far better than Allen) but then added the rushing contributions of a quality RB on top of it. Reportedly he's a demon for work who shows up at 6 am to watch film. He keeps his mouth shut (but has worked hard to improve his media ability) and is reportedly highly coachable. He's clearly improved as a passer and a QB during his time at Louisville. His passing mechanics and footwork are nowhere near as good as Rosen (or Mayfield), not even in the same conversation, but his natural arm is a-MAZ-ing. He flicks his wrist and the ball lasers out on a rope. He needs to refine his lower body and mechanics, but so do Allen, Darnold, and Mayfield. He's not as "pro ready" as a pocket-passing guy like White or Lauletta (who also have more polished mechanics), but he's got a far better arm (edit: and I've come to wonder if the pro-readiness of small program guys is illusory, because they don't know what they don't know (on reading NFL D) or what they can't do (on throwing into tight windows vs NFL DB)
I guess this makes me sound like a big Jackson fanboy, so I should make clear my top 2 QB choices are Rosen then Mayfield (because of better throwing mechanics and footwork at present). But I think Jackson is under-rated and if the pundits keep dissing him off as "should be a WR or a RB" maybe we can get our hands on him without selling the farm. And it's pissing me off to have him described as a WR. He won the freakin' Heisman as a QB fergoshsakes! Or to have people cite "injury concerns" for a guy who hasn't missed a game (because he runs). Yeah, he should learn to slide.
Your assessment has caused me to reconsider my evaluation on Jackson....I'm going to go watch more film.
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42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
Except Watson was always the first name on their board as we have discussed. The Mahomes trade up in front of them did affect it though.... because they were comfortable enough with Mahomes as their #2 guy (they didn't like Trubisky) that they were hoping to be able to sit at their spot and take Watson or if he was gone Mahomes. Once Mahomes was off the board they were then no longer willing to risk it. You can continue to put stock in your speculative reports if you like. I'll go with John McClain and Peter King. And they will be proved right in the long run. Deshaun Watson is a stud.
I don't know who John McClain is if he isn't slaying bad guys at Nakatomi plaza.....but Peter King? Come on...that guy is living off of reputation at this point. I will concede the version of events you describe is quite convievable....I don't think the Texans liked Trubisky. I don't think the Chiefs liked Trubisky. We know the Browns didn't like Trubisky or Watson. .....Watson looked good in the games he played....sad to see he suffered that injury..I'd like to see more....will be interesting to watch how that goes over the next couple of seasons for sure.
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.....It probalby will be a kind of weak point due to his performance thus far in a somewhat small sample size, but an example of a team trading up to go get someone, anyone, becuase, hey we have to our QB situation sucks...would be the Texans last year. Some speculative reports suggested that they were more or less directed by the owner to go up and get Watson once Trubisky and Mahomes were off the board....reason being that owner wasn't going into yet another year with no QB he could sell to the fan base....Watson was a name, and in the time he was on the field, did put up some decent numbers and exciting play...before getting hurt...so jury still kind of out considering the whole picture including the injury. ....
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As a Chiefs fan, the most exciting draft event I have ever seen was last years trade up to 10 so we could draft Mahomes. ....Even before we knew it was Mahomes, it was pretty well understood that as soon as that trade was made they'd gone up there for Watson or Mahomes. It was incredible knowing that they had A) Identified "the man" and B) they actually went and did what it took to go get him. I hope that you all have a similar draft day experience this year...especially since it has been at least somewhat alluded to that by punting on QB last year, the Bills had turned their eyes to this QB draft class and had aquired ammo for it.
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I think sometimes people get caught up in stats a little too much...and I love stats and trying to find ways to quantify things. ....As someone who has carefully observed Alex Smith for 5 seasons, if all we went off of were Alex Smiths stats, then you would think KC had a top 5 QB...and even this year, using only stats, you could make a top 3 argument. Football is still a game that the metrics have trouble capturing the whole package. Smith is a perfect example of this. His completion pct is incredibly high. He also rarely turns the ball over. He had some great "deep ball" stats this year as well. Going off of all this, one would wonder why in the world KC would ever want to move on from him? The answer is, you have to actually watch the games to see the story the stats aren't telling you. In the case of Smith, his completion pct is high because he A)opts to throw a lot of short, open, easy passes. B) He doesn't throw the 50/50 ball. EVER. if he does go downfield, it's because he does see the wide open target and gets it there. C) he will not risk a turnover to make a play. KC has been an AWFUL DREADFUL 3rd down team for years. Smith will run, or check down and throw short on 3rd and 8. No INT. No sack. No turnover. Stat sheet shows complete pass. Stat sheet doesn't account for the fact you needed Smith to make something happen to extend a drive etc. There is also no stat for pocket presence. Smith doesn't have good pocket presence. To the untrained eye, he appears to be "extending the play" but 7 out of 10 times, he has abandoned a perfectly good NFL pocket to go running, often at the expense of a more positive outcome if he stood in and found the open man. ....Going back to Smiths deep ball stats this year....if you look at the plays, he literally felt Tyreek Hill was open enough and that he could throw it out there (Smith has tendancy to overthrow when he goes deep to avoid the pick) so far and Hill could still get it...that Smith had some success on these this year. ....again, because they were wide open. (you could say he at least hit the guy who was open) ....but you would pull your hair out watching games and realize for every one of these he hit...he NEVER SAW the other 3 wide open shots becaue of the poor pocket presece.
My whole point here is that Smiths stat sheet doesn't paint the whole picture and neither does Cousins. Someone here said they went back and watched Cousins actually play football games....I highly recommend that before making a call on what you think of Cousins (or Smith, or Rosen, Darnold, etc) is that you go watch games...pay attention to the situation, do they stand in a pocket and read the field? Do they take a chance and make a play when you need a play or do they play it safe? Can they "feel" the pocket? Do they check down at the correct time? How open are their targets? Does the play inflate the QB's stats (60 yard screen pass) vs ball in the air yards?
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We (KC) signed him to a one year "prove it" contract. Given how awful the CB's opposite Peters have been....probably worth a shot since he didn't cost much.
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....All this speculation is further ammo for the idea that the Bills should be all in on Kirk Cousins. Sitting there at 21&22, having to speculate on A) that you can find a trading partner and B) that the guy you have identified will be there to trade up for, is a whole lot of uncertainty to be betting on come draft day. All Cousins costs is money, and his contract will seem steep at first, but it will fall right in line with the leauge in short order. He has proven to be able to produce with a sub par roster and broken O-line. If I were the Bills, he would be option one, then use the draft capital to start building with others and their cheap contracts. For what it's worth, I do think Cleveland is going to win the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes. Again, all he costs is money.
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Off Season -
Cousins ends up with the Browns. They ultimately throw even more money at him than anyone though possible signing 5 years at 32 millions per. Dorsey sees this QB class and knowing he has so much cap room, opts to go Shaquon Barkley 1/1, trading his 4th overall to the Cardinals.
The Bills don't find a trading partner to move up, and end up drafting Mason Rudolph in round 1.
LeVeon Bell re signs with the Steelers.
Nick Foles remains on the Eagles roster.
The Indianapolis Colts sign Sam Bradford as either the fill in while Luck comes back...or just flat out as Lucks replacement if he can't come back. They draft Nick Chubb, thus denying the Bills a potential trading partner.
The Denver Broncos, stunned hat having missed out on Cousins, show interest in.........Tyrod Taylor. Elway, having swung and missed on Lynch, can't go back and draft another big tall QB again....he has a coach on the hot seat...he has a 1st round QB on the roster that he selected....he gets the veteran Taylor to compete for the job with lynch and they stumble into the 2018 season having not had the off season they were hoping to have.
Minnesota resigns Case Keenum AND Teddy Bridgwater.
Kansas City signs EJ Gaines.
2018 Season
the Patriots and Tom Brady get very old in a big hurry. Don't win the division, miss playoffs. Miami with a healthy Tannehill, wins division with 9-7 record. Jets with New QB Baker Mayfield, go 8-8 and have a bright future to look forward to. Bills struggle to go 5-11...everyone is disappointed, but talk about the great non QB draft picks the team has, and looking forward to drafting more very good NON Qb's in the 2019 draft.
The Eagles remain a force to be reckoned with. The Redskins quickly learn that Alex Smith can't elevate garbage talent around him like Kirk Cousins could...they go 6-10 and regret mishandling the cousins situation even more. Eli Manning throws a bunch of picks and is replaced at some point by Rosen. He looks good, the future is bright in NYC. Dallas makes the wild card as strong contender with their RB being back on the squad all season. The Cowboys resign demarcus lawrence. Dez Bryant takes a pay cut and stays.
Cleveland, with new QB Kirk Cousins, go 8-8....Cleveland misses the playoffs but fans in Cleveland are stoked. Pittsburg grinds out another division title at 10-6...ben starting to feel his age, Bell still strong....Cincinnatti goes 4-12. Baltimore goes 5-11. joe Flacco finishes his last season for the ravens.
Green Bay, with a healthy Rodgers, wins the division going 11-5. Chicago surprises some folks going 9-7 with an improving Mitch Trubisky. Detroit remains lost with Matt Patricia going 5-11 and the Vikings suffer a regression with Keenum reverting to the mean and the team suffering a playoff hangover in general.
Indianapolis ends up losing Luck for the year and another surgery...probably ending his career. He and Bert Jones share beers and cry about what could have been. The colts go 3-13. Jacksonville wins the division with a surprisingly improved Bortles leading the way. Houston, with a healthy Watson, disappoints as the defense now suddenly sucks..they go 8-8. The Titans, who do nothing in the offseason besides change uniforms, suck badly. the team internally believe Mariotta isn't the man for the QB job.
The Seahawks flame out entirely as Carroll retires at seasons end. They go to rebuild mode. The Rams win the division with a progressing Goff and more pieces added to the offense. Arizona struggles with whoever their new QB is. The Niners make the wild card with Jimmy G.
Kansas City goes 13-3, clinches homefield advantage in the AFC, win their two home playoff games and prepare to face the Eagles in the Super Bowl. Denver implodes with Tyrod Taylor starting most of the games as Paxton Lynch can't wrestle the job away from him. Elway resigns, they go into rebuild mode. Chucky comes back and turns David Carr into a respectable QB, but the team has issues and can only muster an 8-8 record. The Chargers get one last good push from Philip Rivers and make the playoffs.
New Orleans re signs Brees...they win the division. Atlanta suffers playoff hangover, Julio Jones slows down, the whole team slows down...they miss playoffs. Carolina has an off year....miss playoffs. Tampa has another bad season....internally they decide Jameis Winston isn't the man.
Chiefs win super bowl....beginning the next NFL dynasty, this being the 1st of 4 in the next 8-10 years.
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5 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:
Mayfield to the Jets is becoming a pretty popular mock pick. I'm still not sure Bowles and Mike Maccagnan are going to hitch their future to a young guy. They were gifted two year extensions, I think go the veteran route. I don't know why they wouldn't go all in on Cousins.
Frankly, Cousins should be OPTION 1 for any team needing a QB this off season, including the Bills. He costs anyone that signs him only money, not draft picks. He is a known quantity. He has shown he can produce with less than optimal talent around him. That's worth the contract. If you try your best and miss on Cousins, then you look at your other options, including the draft. The best thing the Bills could do this off season, is sign Cousins. You can't possibly say right now that Cousins in your hand, is worse than the unkown of going to draft day wondering who will be picked where, if your guy will be gone, if you can work a deal with a willing partner if he is there, and then if you get your guy, if he will actually turn out good. In this unusual year when a Cousins is actaully on the market..you get Cousins if at all possible.
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I don't have a dog in this fight but, IF I was in charge and was sitting with pick 21 and 22, Tyrod Taylor under contract, and Kirk Cousins available for only money, you almost have to do what it takes to sign Cousins don't you? You can't possible know in mid March, how the draft will unfold, and you don't know what QB will be available, or if you'd even be able to find a willing trade partner. Cousins is a known quantity. He will cost you 28-30 million, but it's not absurd when viewed from the perspective that QB raises have stayed within the rising cap pretty much....his contract will be high the day he signs it and mid level the day he finishes it. You'd have to ask yourself if you believe what you MIGHT get on draft day, will be better than Cousins is now and in the future.....how can anyone say right now, that is the case? You can't. ....that's why you make the effort for Cousins and only resort to the draft and all that manuevering, scouting, and hoping events fall your way ONLY if you made your best effort to get Cousins and he goes elsewhere.
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On 2/8/2018 at 7:01 PM, Alphadawg7 said:
HOF players are drafted in all rounds and even signed as UDFA. This notion great prospects aren't available at 21 and 22 or in the 2nd round is nuts. Teams COVET those picks. So unless you think the brightest minds in all of football now and history are all wrong in the fact that great players are found regularly with those picks, then this post is misguided.
Look at the general consensus on the 4 best QB's in the NFL today...none taken earlier than 24th pick and only 1 in the first round. Rogers, Brees (2nd round), Wilson (3rd round), Brady (6th round). So, sorry but your post is waaaaay off.
Ummm....sure HOF players come from all rounds or undrafted...but just like QB's....your percentages of hitting a hall of famer or franchise QB go way up the higher the draft selection.
http://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/hall-of-famers-by-draft-round/
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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:
Yep. He has just given himself away.
That is absolutely not the way that the Texans blog community tells the story, not the way the Houston Chronicle tells the story (and John McClain is one of the very best beat writers for ANY team in the country) and is not the way SI told the story either. The Texans did like Mahomes, but Deshaun Watson was their guy all along. McClain's scoop was actually that earlier in the process when the Texans were not sure Watson made it out of the top 10 they talked to the Jets about moving up to number 6 for him.
The "Texans wanted Mahomes over Watson" rumours came from Walterfootball. Long time readers know my view on the accuracy of rumours that come from that site. They are the ultimate throw enough mud at the wall and hope some sticks site.
I am going purely off that picture. Does that look like a group of folks that are excited about trading up to get Watson? I am sure the sources close to the team all say it was Watson from the beginning....what else would they say after drafting him? Watson has looked really good so far. I am sure they are delighted to have him, as are the Saints to have Lattimore and the Bills to have White. The big loser in all this appears to be the Cleveland Browns....shocking.
Second...I really am a guy from Kansas City (who now lives in Ft. Worth, TX) and joined the board to observe over time, how the Bills fanbase sees the trade. I do think it is a bonus that you think I am another guy who apparently isn't here anymore, that had been a big Mahomes supporter.
Third. In the short time I have been on this board, I have mentioned this in another thread somewhere, but I really enjoy just the general football talk here, or even just reading about what you all have to say about your team. I joined a Browns board for the same reason, and I often go read Broncos boards and now with smith traded to Washington, I cruise some redskins sites. This place has the best and most inteligent conversations....that includes the Chiefs groups I am a part of. (Kansas City fans are very homerish and don't take well to constructive criticism of the home town team and players)
Glad to be here...hope to be here for a good long while if you all can put up with me interjecting here and there.
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...yes, I am trolling... This is part of why we thank you so much for the trade. most of us KC fans think we are about to get high end QB play for 2-3% of our cap space for the next 3 seasons.
Patrick Mahomes Current Contract
Year Age Base Salary (Guaranteed) Bonuses Cap
NumberCap % Dead Money & Cap SavingsCut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtensionProrated Roster Workout Other Total $2,400,000 $10,086,152 $3,939,810 $0 $0 $16,425,962 2017 22 $465,000 $465,000 $2,521,538 $0 $0 $0 $2,986,538 1.8% 2018 23 $555,000 $1,211,635 $2,521,538 $656,635 $0 $0 $3,733,173 2.1% $13,439,424($9,706,251)2019 24 $645,000 $1,958,270 $2,521,538 $1,313,270 $0 $0 $4,479,808 2.4% $9,706,251($5,226,443)2020 25 $735,000 $2,704,905 $2,521,538 $1,969,905 $0 $0 $5,226,443 2.6% $5,226,443$0Embed This Contract
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This is the Houston war room when they picked Watson.....lots of reports Mahomes was their guy and that they HAD no choice but to go up and get Watson (reported the owner told them to make it happen) Does anyone besides GM Rick Smith look happy about getting Watson there? That's a war room that is disappointed that Mahomes got sniped in front of them. (On a side note, professional golfer Justin Speith, was a guest in the New Orleans war room, and he flat out said Mahomes was the Saints pick at 11 if he was there)
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Considering his injury history and his price tag, I doubt anyone would trade for him, and considering all the dead money involved with cutting him, I don't see us (KC) cutting him. What most folks don't realize about Houston in the 2017 season, was that due to injuries to Eric Berry, lack of LB depth and speed, and really poor CB play opposite Marcus Peters, we literally had Houston drop into coverage almost every play. Houston is a very good all around player, but he isn't being paid all that money to be a coverage LB....Many fans were very unhappy about how he was utilized this season. I would expect he will remain a Chief and will be once again utilized as what he does best, wich is rush the passer. IF he doesn't do well in 2018, they will look to part ways, and next year, they can absorb that cap hit easier if need be.
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Now seems like a great time to mention Patrick Mahomes will cost an average of 4 million per season through 2020 and has the fifth year option available to the team in 2021.
....What about QB in 2019?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
It is supposed to be Zerovoltz. I fat fingered it when I signed up