SoTier
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Posts posted by SoTier
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13 hours ago, Fadingpain said:
Don't like the breakdown.
You need another tier between the Tier 1 "ultra elites" and the Tier 2 "most guys in the league".
There is another tier there of very good QBs who are categorically better than someone like Tyrod, but who are not the ultra elite Tier 1 guys either.
Your way puts Tyrod in with Eli Manning and Flacco. No way is Tyrod in the same tier, even if Flacco has looked pretty darned bad this year.
Remember, Tyrod is the guy who would have sat on the bench for 500 years in Baltimore, because he is not Joe Flacco.
11 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:I just don't see how you can lump clearly inferior players with clearly superior ones into such a huge category. Guys like Goff, right now, you don't know what you have. You don't know what you have with Marriota or Winston. Wentz looks like a franchise guy now but so did Nick Foles on the same team in basically the same circumstance. Guys like Eli were once franchise but are complete also rans now.
I think what you -- and some others -- are not seeing is the rationale for the OP's tiers, which is not based on how well a QB plays/has played so much as it's based on what a QB needs to have success. There are some starting QBs who are just so talented that they'll shine even if playing with little or no support around them. Those are the elite, Tier 1 guys. Then there are some starting QBs who just are not talented enough to be starters no matter how much talent surrounds them ... these aren't journeymen but the backups, wannabees, and busts of various stripes from failed first rounders to UDFAs. The OP really didn't address these guys ... they're probably Tier 4 since they're below the Tier 3.
Tier 3 guys can be a variety of guys: journeymen or aging starters or "bridge QBs" or refugees from Tier 4 who have a good run filling in for a missing starter. They can even be first round QBs who are only playing because they're first rounders and their teams are deciding what to do about them. They generally don't have a lot of success, frequently because they don't have the best talent or coaching around them but possibly because they've lost some of their ability or just have too many limitations.
Tier 2 guys are the ones who have enough talent to make lemonade if they're given enough lemon juice, sugar, and water. If you've got only 3-5 guys in a tier, the spectrum from top to bottom is limited. If you've got 10 or 15 guys in a tier, there's going to be a spectrum of talent among them. It's hard to quantify because no 2 QBs are exactly the same. It's easy to pick out the guys on the extremes, less so the guys towards the middle. Then, too, there are both young and old QBs in the group as well as QBs who've had lots of starting experience and those with limited experience as starters as well as first round picks who are usually given opportunities early that are not afforded to QBs drafted in the later rounds or who are UDFAs except in special circumstances.
All these QBs have enough talent to be starters of decent quality but their performance is much more dependent upon the team around them and/or the coaching situation. If they get into a good situation, they can frequently play like they're elite for stretches ... even a for a season or two... but when the team around them loses its own quality, their play tails off. If there's a coaching change, they're more affected than the Tier 1 guys seem to be. This group is the largest and the most diverse because in the salary cap era situations on teams can and do change dramatically from one season to the next ... even within the season depending upon injuries. Coaching impacts teams -- and that's even more true for QBs than most other players -- far more than it did in the pre-salary cap era, too, when the Cowboys could fleece Minnesota in the Herschel Walker trade and load up with so much talent in the draft that even Barry Switzer could "coach" them to a Super Bowl win.
With crappy coaching and surrounded by limited talent, Alex Smith looked like a bust early on in his career. When San Fran improved, he started to look better but he was dumped for a young QB who looked like the next big thing playing in an offensive system that not only highlighted his talents but also masked his deficiencies. Even early on in KC, Smith was considered nothing special as a starter, a "game manager" or "journeyman". Many would have likely consider him only a step or two above Ryan Fitzpatrick ... and then this season happened, and he's being talked about as an MVP candidate.
4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:Probably not long. Bledsoe struggled the previous year and struggled early on the next year....then he got crushed by Lewis.
They were 5-13 with Belicheck before Brady took over.
Bledsoe was injured in the first or second game of the 2001 season, so it's a bit difficult to claim that he had "struggled early on the next year".
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17 hours ago, Graybeard said:
I like this breakdown.
Now where do you put Eli? I've never thought of him as elite, but he has won the Superbowl. An interesting contradiction.
Elli is streaky, and that makes him an enigma I think. When he's on a hot streak, like he was the last time the Giants won the SB, he's definitely Tier 1 ... he carried that Giants team with his leadership and passing ability, masking a lot of their shortcomings much the way that Rodgers masks a lot of GB's shortcomings. When he gets into a funk, though, like he seems to be this season, he sinks to Tier 3 ... and sometimes to the lower end of Tier 3. Most of the time, though, he's probably a top-half Tier 2 guy ... and in clutch situations, if you can't have Rodgers or Brady, you might consider Eli ... he seems able to make clutch plays more often than you might think.
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7 hours ago, teef said:
his injuries are still part of the problem. i don't care why he has a lack of targets or a lack of production. it's on sammy. he's even been arguably been put into a better situation this year, and he still can't get it done. i think he has it in him to be great, but at some point he needs to own this.
Then talk about his injuries as a factor in deciding to trade him!
Don't claim that he's "inconsistent" which indicates that a WR doesn't play the position well and is unreliable.
6 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:Watkins is a quality WR with talent. If one watches the Rams games, they will see he gets open and Goff rarely looks his way. He could be used more, but the Rams have lots of weapons. Sammy was never going to be worth two first rounders unless he was Jerry Rice. The only reason it is still a topic is that the Bills have yet to establish a consistent and effective passing attack. If that was happening, no one including myself ( as a Watkins fan) would be thinking about it any more. It's the NFL and players come and go. The Bills don't have an offensive lineup similar to the Rams, so it's impossible to look at whatever is happening in LA as what would happen if SW was in Buffalo. We will see what happens with the addition of Benjamin and the return of Clay.
Good post. My concern about getting rid of Woods and Watkins stems from the fact that the Bills left themselves with no viable WR who can stretch the field. That may come back and bite them in the arse yet even this season, although so far they haven't suffered too badly.
I think Benjamin is a good addition but he's not the kind of WR who terrifies DBs. Neither is Zay Jones. The Bills might make the playoffs this season without a downfield burner but if they continue to develop and hope for more than just making the playoffs, they're going to have add a WR good enough to break games open.
1 hour ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:The “new guy” bit is a bit old now. Watkins is a vet. He’s been there now for like 12 weeks. I would expect his production to be much better for a true “no. 1 WR.”
This sounds like all the gleeful pot shots that so many Bills fans took at Jason Peters and Marshawn Lynch during their initial seasons after they were traded to Philly and Seattle respectively. Both players were overpaid, spoiled scrubs "who didn't want to be here" and the Bills FO was filled with bonafide personnel geniuses for getting rid of them according to so many Bills fans. Well, fast forward 7 or 8 years and both are going to be HOFers ... and they won't be going in as Bills thanks to those geniuses in the Bills FO.
It's a tad early to judge the outcome of the Watkins trade ... just as it's unlikely that Benjamin is going to play as well this year as he's likely to play next year for the Bills (assuming they sign him) after he's had OTAs, minicamp, and TC.
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14 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:
Sean McVay has the Rams playing LARGE and they are a legit SB caliber team with both their offense and Wade Phillips defense.
Reminds me of the Kurt Warner's greatest show on turf teams circa 1999 - 2002.
Given up on your Carpies, huh?
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16 minutes ago, teef said:
what was said was absolutely true. woods is having a good year, but wasn't likely worth the 8 mill a year he received. watkins has been wildly inconsistent, injury or no injury. just look at his numbers this year. you just can't seem to get over the fact that some of the guys that were moved, were moved for not just financial reasons. if this team is so cheap, why give wood an extension.
The poster I replied to claimed that Watkins and Woods were "inconsistent" which was why they were moved out, and that's untrue. Neither was "inconsistent" in their play for the Bills. They weren't dropping easy balls or running the wrong routes with some frequency. They both played well within the limits of the Bills offense. Certainly the way the Bills used Watkins in 2015 and 2016 when he was healthy was "inconsistent" but that's on the coaching staff not the player. Woods was a very solid WR on a run-first team with a QB still learning the ropes. He's in a better situation now, and he's showing his stuff.
BTW, how many Rams games have you watched? Woods has turned into a clutch WR for them although Kupp gets most of the glory because Goff relies on him the way Matt Ryan relies on Julio Jones and Andy Dalton relies on AJ Green. The rest of the receivers scramble for the crumbs. Woods would have been worth $8 million in a Bills uniform because he would give them a downfield threat that they still don't have even with the trade for Benjamin. It's the going rate, and they probably will have to shell out close to that to keep Benjamin.
15 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:Sammy Watkins has 2 games of over 3 catches this season and 1 game of over 100 yards which was against San Fran. Does that sound like consistency to you? Maybe consistent poor play or decoy play but he doesn't deserve the credit of being a top flight receiver that many jack him up to be. As for Woods, he's been consistent but not worth 8 million a year for a run first team. If I'm paying my second wide receiver on the team that much, he better be getting 1,000 yards a season for me but he didn't here. I understand we don't throw the ball a lot but the Rams have been and yet Sammy still can't produce. He's inconsistent
As I asked Teef, how many Rams games have you watched? WRs are dependent upon how often the QB throws to them. Goff throws to Kupp as if he were his only option a lot of the time. As Goff matures and gets more confidence in Watkins and Woods, as well as defenses start double covering Kupp, Goff should start throwing the ball to his other options more often. Even without having as many targets as he should have, Woods is on pace to get at about 800-900+ yards (I'm not sure if the Rams have played 8 or 9 games).
The point is, however, not whether the Bills should have gotten rid of one or both Woods and/or Watkins but rather whether they were "inconsistent" as WRs. They weren't in Buffalo, and they aren't in LA.
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3 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:
Adam Gase is one to watch too. That offense is pathetic and the team has no heart.
Bruce Arians is another if the Cards blow things up this offseason.
I agree about Gase. Even Tannehill's injury doesn't give a coach an excuse when his team gets shut out 20-0 and 40-0 within weeks of each other while looking disinterested in playing football. A lot of commentators were blaming Cutler for the Carp's early blowouts by the Saints and the Jests, but it appears that he's the only glue holding that offense together.
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19 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:
And yet they've put up pedestrian numbers so far this season...it's not like they sucked. They are bound to have a good performance here and there. The whole thing about them leaving here is because of how inconsistent their play was.
This is just so much BS. Watkins wasn't "inconsistent". He sustained an injury that took a long time to heal and he made some statements about WR pay structure in general that the Bills FO used as a rationalization to move him out. Woods wasn't "inconsistent" either. The Bills just didn't want to pay him the going rate for veteran WRs of his caliber. Furthermore, Woods has been anything but "inconsistent" for the Rams. He's caught 31 passes for 451 yards (which may be only slightly less than the Bills current WRs' yards gained) and 2 TDs with 9 completions over 20 yards. He's had only 2 games where he didn't have at least 50 yards in catches.
If you want to defend the Bills FO's personnel moves, be my guest, but don't make up stuff to do it.
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I remember Colts fans using that as their rallying cry in 2011. When will people learn tanking does not work in football? Its crazy to me people at the beginning of this year wanted us to trade every good talent we had to secure the 1st overall pick.
The problem with tanking is that while you may get the QB you want, you don't have much talent around him. Moreover, the reason for the lack of talent is often due to poor talent evaluation. Luck's suffered from poor coaching, too.
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I tell you what this decision shows yet again.... the offensive system we have adopted that make Jake Plummer and Matt Schaub pro-bowlers and appear like viable "franchise" Quarterbacks.... at least for a short period.... can hide Quarterbacks pretty well. Siemian, while always a borderline top 32 QB, ran it reasonably effectively last year and put into McCoy's offense looks totally exposed.
Not saying the scheme is hiding Tyrod... I don't think that it is. But it bodes well for the future when it might possibly be someone else under centre who is learning the ropes.
After watching the how well Taylor played for the Bills and then how poorly Siemian played for the Broncos, I began wondering if it had been Dennison as his OC last season who made him look like a decent QB ... and that Siemian looked like he could use some mentoring. I've been impressed with the improvement that Taylor's made this season, and I was one of Dennison's hardest critics early on.
I like Rick Dennison. He isn't Kubiak or Shanahan who are the Grandfather and Father of this offense but he is a good, solid, offensive mind and he knows and understands this offense down to the finest detail.
He is not the next Sean McVay but he is a solid, vet OC and I actually really like the job he has done for the most part.
Lynch isn't fit to hold Wentz's jock. Lynch was a 3rd round pick on my board. How John Elway could honestly look at him abd think "1st round QB" I have no idea.
I'm impressed that Dennison's got Vlad Ducasse playing okay at RG. That's a shocker. Ducasse has failed everywhere else he's been.
I think that QBs taken in the bottom half of the first round are pretty unlikely to amount to much. Of the QBs drafted in the bottom half of the first round between 2000 and 2014, one's career has been compromised by injury (Teddy Bridgewater) so I haven't counted him. That leaves 14 others, and the only three who weren't busts were Chad Pennington (2000), Aaron Rodgers (2005), and Joe Flacco (2008). That's only about 1 in 5 of those QBs being worth a first rounder. It doesn't look good for Lynch.
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Why do you assume a conservative, run-first offense is what McDermott wants?
It doesn't occur to you that he knows a run-first offense is his only choice right now considering the limitations of the quarterback?
Right-o. It has NOTHING to do with the fact that the Bills have one of the premier RBs in the NFL, an OL that's good at run blocking, and significantly better at run blocking than at pass blocking, as well as TEs that know how to block for the run. It has NOTHING to do with the fact that the Bills play their home games in an open stadium in an area that's infamous for windy weather, especially from about late October onward. It's all about Taylor's "limitations" because we all know that "franchise QBs" have no "limitations".
What exactly are Taylor's limitations that make it impossible for the McDermott to institute a pass first offense, BTW? In the past, he was criticized for not utilizing the middle of the field. He's been doing that. He's certainly has been changing his style from "running QB" to "mobile pocket QB" like Rodgers or Smith. He can make all the throws, he's fairly accurate, and he doesn't make stupid decisions, so he takes care of the football. He's been criticized for not throwing into tight windows enough and for not "throwing receivers open" and he still needs to work on both. Those are hardly the worst "limitations" a QB can have though. Just ask Vance Joseph or Hue Jackson. Maybe it's his lack of height ... he can't do much about that but then neither could Drew Brees or Russell Wilson.
5 teams in the top 10 in pass attempts this year have HCs with defensive backgrounds. For the record, I dont think its as simple as youre saying. Just saying. Be gentile.
I don't think it is, either. I think a big determinant is whether the team can muster a good running game or not. Ideally, teams like to be able to do both but with the constraints of the salary cap, they realistically can't unless they can get a lot of production out of players on rookie contracts ... or they stint on the resources they allocate to the defense. When they can't get a good running game going, the good teams often utilize short passes instead of runs to get 3-6 yards a pop. NE has had this problem for years, primarily I think, because they've built and maintained their OL as a premier pass blocking unit to protect Brady. The lack of a running game has been a major problem for the Giants the last couple of years as they've invested in their passing game (QB/receivers) and their defense but couldn't afford to invest in their OL.
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Any given Thursday.
McD has this team primed. Everyone has their eye on the prize. There are no trophies for 6 wins.
That being said, this is a game they must have. Not just to improve playoff standings, but to show these are not the same ole Bills. For the fans and to see KW on the field in his 1st postseason game.
^^^
that's the real deal for me. Time after time, this team has gotten to the brink and faltered. Like many of you, i want to Bill-ieve, and the Tampa comeback as a good start, and good evidence that the team has turned the page.
Time to step up and beat a team that you are supposed to beat, on the road, in prime time. Cliche machine out!
I'm with these guys. This is the kind of game that "the same old Bills" always lost. Time to be the "the new Bills" by kicking the Jests in their collective arses in their own house.
I think that its a fair question. This looks exactly like a trap game. With that being said I think that the Bills have a ton of momentum and even got some more at the deadline. Coming off of that Oakland game Im pretty happy to turn right around and play.
Somebody -- one of the announcing team on Sunday's game? -- said it pretty well when he said something like, "it's not a short week when you win on Sunday."
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Teams are averaging 34.3 pass attempts per game this season.
The Bills are averaging 28 pass attempts per game. Only the Bears average less at 27.8 pass attempts.
You're overstating the defensive background thing.
Last season NFL teams averaged 35.7 pass attempts per game.
Taylor and the Bills averaged an NFL-low 29.6 pass attempts.
Dennison's offense averaged 35.6 pass attempts per game - 17th in the NFL.
It's not a coincidence that every system Taylor plays in is at or very near the bottom of the league in throwing the football.
C'mon, Wayne! I know it's election season but knock off with the politician-worthy self-serving spin. Taylor's only played as a starter in 2 systems, both with the Bills, and both for coaching staffs that want conservative, run-first offenses.
It's a legitimate concern. If TT wants to take his game to the next level, he has take a few more chances. Let somebody make a play. The concern cant always be....I dont want to turn the ball over. Yes an int can happen so can a guy like KB go up and make a play. So can a PI penalty.
I was probably one of the biggest critics of McDermott and Dennison early on. I thought Dennison's offense was going to be a disaster for Tyrod, but he's flourishing in it. He's a significantly better QB against Oakland than he was on opening day, partly because he's being rigorously coached and mentored in the fundamentals, but also because he seems to accept coaching well, something many QBs can't/won't do because of their temperaments. I think if the coaches work with him on throwing into tight coverage, especially to Benjamin, and he comes to trust Benjamin, we'll see him do it.
Like many others, I'm not convinced that McDermott's/Dennison's conservative approach to offense is the best one, but I can't fault their coaching when it comes to getting the most out of whatever talent they have on hand. TT is the best QB the Bills have had since Drew Bledsoe left for Dallas more than a decade ago, and he's a good QB, better than many teams have. No, he's not Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers and he never will be, but that doesn't mean he can't develop into a Joe Flacco or Carson Palmer or Alex Smith.
The Bills would be foolish to dump TT until they are sure that they have somebody better on the roster. A good QB on the roster trumps a great prospect in the draft who might turn out to be the next Aaron Rodgers ... or the next JP Losman or EJ Manuel.
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I don't get why so many on this board think that Petterman will have be a starter in this league. He's a 5th round pick. A dime a dozen. If anyone thinks he will ever outplay TT for the job, I have a bridge I want to sell you.
This is Buffalo, which means the backup QB is ALWAYS better than the guy who's starting. Frank Reich was definitely better than Jim Kelly.
TT gets paid way more than Shady when accounting for AAV.
Also, I care about scoring. We're 26th in passing TD's though.
The last time I looked, the coaching staff decides the type of offense a team runs, and most OCs call plays for their QBs. You're simply scapegoating Tyrod because you need something to complain about.
An almost perfect post in terms of matching what I might write on this topic.
We should continue to field the best team possible every time we play. That means Tyrod for now, but we should keep an eye on always improving the team too. Beane confirmed today in his chat with Schopp and Bulldog that they are always looking to do that and even get excited when they are able to snatch a guy on waivers, if it was a guy they targeted and wanted.
Always look down the road while keeping your eye on the upcoming game too.
We should continue to aggressively pursue a QB better than Tyrod, and play that QB when he is ready.
In the meantime, build up around Tyrod and make the most out of him while he is the QB.
I agree. The reality is, whether it's Tyrod or a young QB in the future, if the Bills build a better team all the way around, it will benefit whoever plays QB.
Let's face this sad fact: Aaron Rodgers as their QB couldn't have helped most of Bills teams in this century make the playoffs. Nobody can say that Drew Bledsoe wasn't a good QB, and he couldn't do it. Who knows if Losman might have developed into a decent starter with better coaching than he got with the Bills. Fitzpatrick might not have been particularly good, but he probably could have gotten the Bills into the playoffs with that 2014 squad ... he was better than Orton. Certainly last year's offense was good enough for the team to make the playoffs, but the defense just sucked.
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I remember you posting this earlier. As I was reading the part of the article about Belichick, I thought of this. Belichick didn't decide that Brady can keep going indefinitely, but Kraft. We'll never know now, but I think Brady's fear was justified; Garoppollo was going to be the Pats QB next season.
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I have no link. This is just my opinion. It just makes sense.
Beane is cherry-picking the best Panthers. He's cleared the money. I think Cam's gonna be a Bill.
I don't see it. Newton is pretty good but he's not in the same league as Rodgers, Brady, Brees or even Wilson who was drafted two rounds after him. Teams don't trade true franchise QBs ... even if they lack fashion sense ... so that would be the first hint that Carolina, the team that knows him best, thinks he'll never improve only decline. Keep Tyrod and give a youngster a shot in the upcoming draft ... or the next one. Cam Newton isn't the next Jim Kelly.
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None compare to the lenght of domination NE has....hell, you add any 2 of them and it still does not match what they've done....most teams are a force for 5-6 years....they're on year # 17....
They are the picture of sustainability...which is why the thread title is weird.....
I think what the OP is trying to say is that NE's success is not really a blueprint for continuing dominating the league indefinitely because it's primarily built on a set of lucky coincidences complement by having aquired a great defensive-minded coach and a great QB, who has only sustained 1 significant injury in his playing career -- his 2008 knee injury. Belichick and Brady are not only great at what they do, they complement each other, and as long as they are together, NE can continue it's dominance but it's unlikely the team can keep doing so once 1 or both are gone. IOW, NE's success is largely dependent upon a couple of specific people rather than upon a plan/philosophy/culture sustained by a group whose members can and do change over time.
FYI, if you want to discuss sustainability, consider the Steelers and the Packers:
- In the 43 years between 1972 and 2016, the Steelers have had 35 winning seasons and made the playoffs 29 times under 3 HCs and with 10 different QBs. They won 6 Super Bowls and lost 2 others.
- In the thirty years since 1987, the Packers have had 24 winning seasons and made the playoffs 19 times under 6 different HCs and with 4 different QBs.
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The Pats have won 5 championships since 2001 and played in 2 other SB's during that time. What exactly is your definition of sustainable because I'd do a backflip over Niagra Falls for just one Lombardi trophy.
Also I still think that folks are in for a surprise if they think this year's Pats team isn't good enough to win the division, make the SB, win a championship, etc. Remember as the calender flips to November and especially December they simply don't lose games.
A tad defensive?
They have the longest run of sustainability ever in the NFL.
You don't remember the pre-salary cap days when teams like Oakland, Pittsburgh, Miami, SF, Green Bay, Dallas, and, even for a while, the Bills dominated the league for long periods. Back then, sustainability was simple: identify talent, stockpile it, and add a good coaching staff.
I think that the Patriots' "model of success" has been significantly aided by the salary cap which Belichick/NE staff mastered and manipulated from the beginning to a far greater degree than any other organization. That Belichick is a coaching genius is pretty undeniable, and that's a significant piece of their sustainability as well as Brady's undeniable talent and durability. Without Brady and/or Belichick, I think the wheels fall off the cart, but exactly when that happens, who knows?
Certainly the general incompetence of the rest of the AFCE in this century hasn't hurt NE's "sustainability". Buffalo, Miami, and NY have too often been just too lousy of teams to do more than put up token resistance to the Pats -- or most other good teams. In some other divisions in both conferences, the teams regularly take turns beating the crap out of each other -- the AFCN and the NFCN where the division rivals regularly seem to go to war come to mind -- so that the teams in those divisions expend a lot of energy and often lose key players against divisional rivals that don't even make the playoffs.
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Do I need to say that is my opinion of the wastrel? Have some class. Leave with dignity. Don't do the Gilmore "Now my friend and family can see me on prime time" swipe at Buffalo!
Screw you, Marcel.
Maybe you should follow your own advice.
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The Bills are #9 on the NFL.com list, #10 on SI, and #11 on the ESPN list ... color me impressed. Did they even have power rankings the last time that the Bills looked like they could be serious playoffs contenders? By adding Benjamin, they've significantly improved the WRs who were easily their weakest link. It's enough to make even old skeptics like me begin to think maybe this might be the year.
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Jeez 1 game out of a playoff spot and Miami already throwing in the towel and tanking. I don't get it. a 4th for Ajayi makes no sense to me
Did you watch that travesty of a game against the Ravens? 40-0. That team seemed as disinterested in playing football as I've ever seen a team. Early in the season they got thumped ... their 20-0 loss ... and the announcers tried to pin on Cutler. Well, Cutler wasn't out there, and they played similarly ... only worse.
I wouldn't be surprised if they lost out. I think that they've quit on Gase.
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Taylor will be the starter in 2018, even if they draft a QB. No reason to rush anyone into the job. Besides, we'll be drafting pretty late.
This is what I've said all along. The supposedly great 2018 QB class seems to be fading fast as more of the "stars" sink into mediocrity or are revealed as pretenders buoyed up by the talent surrounding them, so it's likely that there will be only 1 or 2 genuine top prospects, and that those will be long gone before the Bills get to pick. There's no guarantee that any of the teams at the top of the draft will be interested in trading away their picks, either. SF and Cleveland, the two most likely candidates for the top picks, have lots of needs.
The Bills shouldn't waste a high draft pick on a QB just to draft one (although I think that's a definite possibility), but they should take one if there's one they think could make it as a pro. Maybe take a kid in the 2nd or 3rd with everything but height or size in general: both Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins sank in the draft because of they weren't judged "tall enough" or "big enough". Drew Brees, a second rounder, is also relatively short.
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Honestly I think SF is dumb for making that move. They aren't saving their season this year. It hurts them to get better at this point and there is really no saying they would be better. They were on their way to the top pick in the draft.
Grab a QB at the top and have another practically late 1st round pick. If Jimmy was so good the Pats would have kept him and traded Brady at the end of the season while signing Jimmy long term.
SF got fleeced and the Pats got away with it again.
Obviously, SF doesn't think that the 2018 QB class is all that much.
.@49ers decision to trade for Jimmy G might be an indictment of the 2018 QB class. SF likely didn't see multiple franchise QBs at the top..
Agreed. Before the collegiate football season starts, every draft class is "the greatest in a generation" except that it's only that generational class about once in a generation. Some really good QBs play as advertised but decide to stay in school. Some really good underclass QBs return as seniors and lose their sparkle. Most of the shiny new college QBs, even those drafted in the top half of the first round, are destined to be disappointments, and for those drafted in the bottom half of the first round or lower, probably 80-90% can't even rise to the level of competent backup.
Garoppollo has already proven that he's a competent backup, so he's likely to be at least a decent starter, especially for a team with nowhere to go but up. If they're lucky, he could turn out as good Dalton, Tannehill or Cousins, which would make him a bargain.
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So you already know that Garrapolo is no good? Because if hes as good as some think, its a great trade for SF.
"Some" thought Matt Cassel and Brock Osweiler were good, too, based on their play as backups but the reality is that if their original teams thought that they were truly as good as they looked in a small sample of games, there's no way they'd have let them go. Green Bay sent the legendary Brett Favre packing because they realized that the kid from Cali riding the pine wasn't just younger but better.
Matt Cassell got rich off the Patriots QB gravy train. I see Garapalo being closer to Cassell than Tom Brady.
Agree. There's this mystique about the Belichick and the Pats somehow having the "magic touch" about finding QBs because they drafted Brady in the 6th round, but the reality is that they were walking across the barnyard, slipped on some bull manure, and came up smelling like roses rather than, well, manure when they grabbed Brady. None of the QBs they've drafted since Brady have turned out to be more than competent backups, and most haven't even been that. Matt Cassel, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer are the best of the lot and none of them are better than Ryan Fitzpatrick ... and certainly not nearly as good as Tyrod Taylor.
No i have some Pat friends.
They actually thought Jimmy G would re-sign for between 5-7 a year and be happy to come back to the Patriots. Seriously
He wants a chance to be a starter, which ought to be the goal of any young backup QB, so he was never going to re-sign with NE. It wasn't really about the $$$ but the opportunity.
Yes, no doubt, but the clamoring for Cousins is without merit. Great passing stats, losing record. He is not considered a leader by the team management or players. You will hear all sorts of excuses for his play, but the bottom line is that he just does not have it. The Redskins are moving on. Buyer beware.
Cousins is a decent QB but he's not Superman. Crucify him. As a Bills fan, you should know all about that.
The reality is that QBs need protection and targets to show their talent and skill but they also need the support from a good running game and defense to win lots of games. They also need good/great coaching. What support does Cousins have in Washington?
How many more Super Bowls would Peyton Manning or Drew Brees have won if Indy or NO had given them better defenses? How many more Super Bowls would Aaron Rodgers have won if GB had better running games? If not for Belichick's coaching genius, just how many SBs would Tom Brady have won?
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Even if the Bills were interested in dealing Glenn and the Giants were willing to deal, I don't think it would get done before the deadline. With the trades Mr. Beane has pulled off so far, I think we would win either way. Glenn stays and starts or we gain additional draft capital and cap savings.
F the "draft capital"! Are the Bills interested in winning or they just interested in putting a few more $ in the Pegula's coffers? If the Bills trade Glenn now, then they prove they really have no interest in putting a winning team on the field. A team can NEVER have too many good OTs, and the Bills have a good one in his prime in Glenn, a decent young prospect in Dawkins, and ordinary or less quality in the others. That's actually about average for NFL teams. The OL is just getting healthy, and it looks like they're adapting, finally, to the new blocking schemes as they're giving Taylor more time to throw and opening holes for the RBs.
Glenn for a high second or an older, disgruntled player? No bueno. We have enough draft picks the next two years to bring in plenty of talent.
Stupid teams trade a good to very good LT for draft picks. Cordy's contract is reasonable and it will only get better over time as contract inflation at the position inevitably occurs.
Re OP: ESPN is a mouthpiece for the Bristol Patriots*. I'm sure they think trading Glenn away is a trade that should happen.
Truth! Apparently, some fans figure that the 2018 draft is so overloaded with talent that every player taken before the 7th round will become a superstar. It doesn't work that way.
Tyrod is tier 2 of NFL QBs: Ability, but not Inevitablity
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Maybe, but nobody knows. 2000 was Belichick's first year as NE HC, and he spent that year evaluating and upgrading what he had. Brady wasn't drafted with the idea that he was going to replace Bledsoe. Drafting their backup QBs late in the draft or even signing an UDFA was generally how NE operated until they drafted Mallett in the third in 2011 and then Garoppollo in the second in 2014. Brady could have been long gone back to Cali to be an accountant or something by the time the Pats parted with Bledsoe ... Damn stupid Jests! They haven't done anything right since 1969!