SoTier
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Posts posted by SoTier
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wait, so we need a franchise QB ASAP, but only if he costs the right amount??? So if you have a mediocre starter at a value, is that better for you guys than making a franchise QB the highest paid player in the league? short of Joe Montana for veteran minimum money, what is it you want?
point being, if you are anti Tyrod, there are 12 or so QBs in the league you have to be willing to pay top dollar for regardless of what that does for your cap. If you are instead thinking of value, you have to at least consider Tyrod as a good option at his price tag. cant have it both ways...
In the alternative universe inhabited by many BB fans, the very best QBs in the NFL are more than willing to play for vet minimum to be Buffalo Bills so they can play behind a suspect OL and throw to one of the worst, if not the worst, WRs corps seen in the NFL since the merger.
In reality, Cousins isn't coming to Buffalo because he's not stupid enough to put his future in the hands of this incompetent organization when he can do much better. Then again, Cousins isn't coming to Buffalo because the Bills are either in incapable of or disinterested in giving any player the kind of contract a bonafide franchise QB commands.
They'll either go with Taylor and Peterman next year or they'll jettison Taylor, keep Peterman, and draft a QB in the first round. My guess is that they'll do the latter because a first round QB with no veteran starter ahead of him is going excite fans and convince them to renew or buy season tix.
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So either way a winning record and leading our division is bad
Whoopy-dee! Whoopy-doo! The Bills have the same record as the NE Patriots and the NY Jests 5 games into the season. In case you've forgotten, this ain't the first time they've been leading/sharing the division lead at this point in the season over the last 18 years. I have "Billieve", however, that they'll keep their amazing streak going and figure out how to end up missing the playoffs again.
Isn't it great the way we mix it up for some variety???
Absolutely. 17 years and counting ... no end in sight.
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Just a thought - We need a QB that actually throws the ball to where our receivers can catch it.
Mason Rudolph for QB 2018
Go Bills!!!!!
Keep telling yourself that ... Is Mason Rudolph going to block for himself and catch his own passes, too?
We have the same record, or better, than all of the teams with those receivers.
My guess is that the Bills are highly unlikely to finish with a better record than the Patriots, may very well finish with a worse record than the Rams, and will likely struggle to end the season with a better record than the Niners but dream on ...
Aha! So it's not about the WRs at all; it's about the QB!
I hope the people at OBD realize this!
I didn't realize that Brian Hoyer and Jared Goff were considered good/great QBs ....
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This has nothing to do with saving money for the owner. It is not the same management as 20 years ago and it's time you stop with this crap.
Well, sir, you may claim it's not the same management but the new management is doing the same stuff that the old management did 8 years ago or 12 years ago or 15 years ago, and I'm a "if it looks like a duck and waddles like a duck and swims like a duck, it's likely a duck" kind of person. So, how is letting Pro Bowl CB Stephon Gilmore walk in FA in 2017 any different than letting
- 1999 first round pick CB Antoine Winfield walk in FA in 2004 or;
- 2001 first round pick CB Nate Clement walk in FA in 2007 or;
- 2006 first round pick S Donte Whitner walk in FA in 2011?
The Bills traded away All Pro LT Jason Peters for a low first rounder in 2009 ... when they didn't have an NFL caliber LT on the team. They traded away young WR Sammy Watkins in 2017 for a second rounder and a backup DB when they didn't have another NFL caliber WR on the roster.
Tell me what the hell's changed with the supposed "new management" ...
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What are we getting in return?
What the Bills ALWAYS get when they send talented players to other teams because they don't want to pay them: next to nothing compared to their worth. My guess is that they get some pissy draft picks along with a JAG WR.
I called the Bills sending Dareus somewhere else back in the first or second game of the season when that story came out about him only being in the game for a limited number of defensive snaps.
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Dragon...while that might sound good on paper...the problem with the Bills is their lack of depth at virtually EVERY position. Any depth they had, they traded away for draft picks. So now, who is going to make a trade with them? And for which players on our roster? The answer can only be trading away those same draft picks that you just traded for. Is that your plan?
Well, why not add "shuffle the draft pick" game to the "shuffle the DB" and "shuffle the WR" and "shuffle the RB" games that the Bills have been playing for the past 17 or 18 years? The Bills may have new faces along the sidelines, in the FO, and even in the owners' box, but damn, they're still operating under the same philosophy that's been guiding the team since at least the Music City Miracle: profit is more important than wins. They do this by letting the good DBs, WRs, and RBs that they've developed leave either through FA or trade rather than pay them the going rate for players of their caliber. They replace them with either players on their rookie contracts drafted in the first or second rounds or with JAGs, ST refugees, and other assorted scrubs who come a whole lot cheaper. That pattern has been a constant throughout the Drought, and it looks like it's continuing.
I'm not sure I agree about the lack of depth. Every Team in the NFL lacks depth. There are only 46 players active on game day. How many teams have a quality backup at every position? In fact, I believe this is why McD constantly preaches versatility. I think Oleary was a great backup. The team handled the dareus injury and the Glenn injury admirably. Worthy was out for a month and they still had the #1 D. Milano played OK with Humbar out and the bills only have up 20 without him and EJ. We roll out 7 players on the Dline constantly with solid play almost every down so there must be depth there.
The WR position and the QB position is where there is no depth. In fact with Matthews out there is a solid argument there isn't a bonafide starter amongst both groups. If somehow they fix the WR slot with improvement from current players or a newcomer, they might be able to deal with the QB for a playoff run.
While every NFL team may lack depth, they do not lack depth at virtually every position like the Bills do, especially this year, at least not if they have realistic hopes of making the playoffs. Moreover, the Bills have guys who aren't NFL caliber starters starting, so how good can their backups be?
The Bills QB and TE depth, before Clay's injury, are about par for the NFL, and you are correct that Matthews is the only NFL caliber starting WR on the Bills roster, but have you considered who the Bills have backing up Shady?
Mike Tolbert ... and Joe Banyard? In his 6 years in the NFL, including 2017, Banyard has rushed 23 times for 95 yards. On the OL, they have no good young players to develop to replace 34-year-old Richie Incognito and 30-year-old Eric Wood if either gets hurt or decides to retire. At least they have some young OTs in development behind Cordy Glenn (Dawkins, Mills, and Henderson) unless they decide to jettison Glenn rather than continue to pay him because they think that Dawkins is "good enough"..It's the same story on the defensive side of the ball. Kyle Williams is 34. Dareus looks to be on his way out ... perhaps even this season. The starting LBs include 2 guys who were backups on other teams. The secondary players are unimpressive individually although they have played decently as a unit, except perhaps against Cincinatti when AJ Green burned them for 189 yards all by himself. The guys backing them up, though, are as lacking in quality as the guys backing up most of the offensive starters.
But, hey, we all know that depth doesn't matter because it's all Tyrod Taylor's fault.
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This team did the same thing last year after Sammy got hurt. There is no urgency whatsoever about the WR position. We will just trot out backup trash and lose these games to anyone that can stop the run. Its the same thing every year
Exactly this. Last season, Watkins, Woods, and Goodwin constituted the best talent that the Bills have had a WR (you can add Clay in there as a good pass catching TE) since 2002 when Drew Bledsoe set team passing records for the season as well as for individual stats. Oh, and in the 2003 off season, the Bills dismantled that receiving corps via FA and trades just like they dismantled the 2016 receiving corps. Deja vue all over again.
73 Bills had Bob Chandler and JD Hill. Both very good. Ferguson was rookie so they never threw. Plus oj couldnt be stopped.
I said wasn't sure. What everybody who remembers 1973 remembers is the runnng game.
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The ONLY reason that I wouldn't call it the worse WR corps ever is because I'm not sure that the 1973 Buffalo Bills even had a real WR corps. That was the year that OJ Simpson ran for 2003 yards in a 14 game season. The Bills played OT Paul Costa at TE, so they obviously valued run blocking. I suppose those WRs were kind of afterthoughts, much like the WRs on the 2005 Chicago Bears when they were bulldozing their way to 11-5 and the NFCN title.
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Look at the New York Giants receiving core, it's a lot worse IMHO and yet Eli finds a way to get at least 1 TD passing each game. I'm tired of the TT excuse makers as good QBs find ways to get the most of their WRs.
Who among the Bills WRs is at least half as good as Odell Beckham? Oh, in case you don't follow the NFL except as it pertains to FFB, the Giants are 0-5 despite having a good defense, and they're further in the toilet because they've lost Beckham for the season. Their other two WRs are out, too.
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They're not going to trade a high draft pick for a receiver, so scratch that.
They're not going to fire Dennison mid-season, so scratch that.
They're just going to have to ride with what they have and evaluate after the season.
Evaluate what? How they can put more lipstick on the pig they've given McDermott so that there's not a mass revolt by season ticket holders next year? They don't have an NFL caliber receiving corps except for Clay and Matthews. They have no depth on the OL, so when an OLer gets hurt -- which happens regularly -- they have to depend upon the likes of Vlad Ducasse. They have Shady and ? as RBs, so they have no depth there, either. Do you really think Mike Tolbert can be a feature back for even 1 game?
Personally...if they can find a way to stabilize the OL that would go a long way toward fixing this......
Glenn at RT and Dawkins at RT where they belong
Glenn at LT and Dawkins at RT would help but Glenn needs to get healthy first. That doesn't really do much for the fact that they need a better back to spell Shady than Tolbert or that their current receiving corps probably isn't good enough to play for the UB Bulls. The only two NFL caliber receivers on the team are Clay and Matthews and both are hurt.
All I know is they can't continue to think they're just fine with what they have around Taylor. He's a QB that needs a strong supporting cast in order to win. All they have right now is McCoy and a run game that they can't get working. They need to step back from whatever they've been doing and look at what's worked in the past and try to find a way to implement those things back into the system.
I feel like they're not doing all they can to put the offense in a position to succeed by fielding the current group of WRs they have. None of them can get separation, none of them are a threat to stretch the field and the one that's presumed to be the most talented of the bunch at the moment can't find his hands. Of course they all need to play, practice and prepare better but even if they take those steps, this WR/pass catching group is comprised of a bunch of low-level players that wouldn't start on most teams. They don't have a go-to pass catcher for when the run game isn't clicking. And they can't rely on the run game because the OL is still trying to fine tune Dennison and Castillo's concepts.
I just don't understand coaches insistence on running their scheme and doing things their way. I've always believed a team is at its best when coaches coach to the natural strengths of their players. For the past two seasons this team has been an excellent running team, what they were doing was working extremely well. A new batch of coaches comes in, sees that and says, "Hmm, while it does appear to be very effective, I'm still going to scrap all of it and start fresh with all of the stuff that I know how to coach." I'm not saying do exactly as Roman/Lynn did, but at least keep some of those elements in the game plan while introducing some of your own. Instead they took the last two seasons they spent perfecting that scheme and tossed it in favor of a scheme that doesn't seem to be outfitted very well for this current group of players on offense.
Excellent post. Dennison wants to pass to set up the run, but with the receivers he's got, he probably should run to set up the pass instead because the WRs are just awful ... and with Clay out, the TEs become almost as bad.
Nothing can be done with that WR corp. Not one guy out there should be playing in the NFL right now. Jones is awful. Poor route runner, cant get seperation, and worse hes not catching the ball. Defenses have no fear of the bills going deep. theyll finish 5-11/6-10
Agreed. Too many fans refuse to accept that reality. The Bills sent their entire WR corps from last year -- Watkins, Woods, and Goodwin, which was probably the most talented bunch they've had in about 15 years --packing and replaced them with JAGs, Never-Weres, Has-Beens, and ST refugees. They sold fans on the idea that these scrubs are "just as good" as the NFL caliber WRs they kicked to the curb, and for a few weeks it worked, primarily because Charles Clay and Shady at RB have been masking some of the deficiencies of the WRs. The injury to Clay ripped the mask off totally. My guess is that it's going to get worse as DCs collect film on what the Bills try to do on offense.
Good QBs throw WRs open. When a QB holds the ball and doesn't throw it's all on the QB. The entire offense fails when The QB is a deer in headlights. The QB controls the offense and moves the chains. Teams game plan to stop the run and force Tyrod to Throw? Why? Because it's proven when pushed to be a QB he fails.
Your love for a backup QB talent is foolish. Keep pounding that round peg in a square hole and this team will end up where many thought they would this season, 6 wins at best.
Even Aaron Rodgers couldn't throw the scrubs the Bills had on the field yesterday open. None of the Bills current starting WRs would make any other NFL team except as STs. Lie to yourself and scapegoat Taylor if it makes you feel happy but it doesn't make it true.
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At the end of the day Taylor simply isn't a fit for this offense and what Dennison/McD are trying to do.
At the end of the day, you're as full of bull manure as you usually are. What QB, exactly, would be a fit for an offense without a receiving corps, which was the Bills by the fourth quarter yesterday?
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Guys who are 6'5", former number 1 overall picks are given the benefit of every doubt. Guys like Kirk Cousins and Tyrod will have to prove themselves over and over.
+1.
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This^^^^
Plus the Bills have enough picks that if they want to package them to go after someone they can. I doubt they will break in in the top 5 but they could easily end up in the 5-10 range if the guy they want is there.
Trading up for a QB in the first round hasn't been a successful strategy over the last 15 years except once (Giants 2004), and for the Bills (2004), it was a disaster because it precluded them for even considering taking Rodgers the next year. If Taylor continues to play well (and he would have to in order for the Bills to finish below the middle of the pack), then it's not imperative for the Bills to draft a QB in the first round in 2018. If they like a kid and he's available, then they take him. If not, there will be new prospects the following draft.
Rather than using all the extra picks to chase after one player who could very well bust, use them to make the team more talented where there's real need ...
All picks are risky but I would not say Oline is riskier than QB. The hit rate on 1st round lineman over the past 10 years is still higher than QB by a fair amount I'd assume
It has nothing to do with drafting scared either. I had a third round grade on Christian Ponder and he went top 12. We need to avoid draftiing ponder or EJ Manuel. It sets us back.
They need to draft the RIGHT GUY... not ANY GUY. That's all
1st round Lineman= 83% success rate
1st round QB= 63%
This was the most recent I could find but either way we just need to avoid the gabberts and ponders of the draft
I totally agree with your post, especially about drafting "the right guy". If a team isn't sure about a kid, passing on him isn't "drafting scared" but drafting smart.
More than just avoiding the Gabberts and Ponders, the Bills do NOT need to do a redux of JP Losman, either, where they give up too much for a flawed prospect, including the opportunity to grab a much better prospect if one comes along a year or two later.
As for success rates of QBs, I think that article's "success rate" for QBs is probably far more generous than I'd go with. I don't equate starting, even for half their careers, with being a success because we all know that some QBs have been starters only because they were first round picks or because their teams have nobody better. For example, Mark Sanchez has played in 77 games, starting 72. He's been in the league for 8 full years and has been the designated starter for 4 years with the Jests and half a season with Philly. I understand that the author was trying to be objective, but there's no way anybody can seriously consider Sanchez a successful QB.
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Look, I am absolutely stoked. This season has played out far better than I anticipated so far. The D looks so legit, Shady still has legs and I am finally seeing Dennison use Tyrod in the ways that I thought would free him.
I will still admit, as I watched that last drive by the Falcons, the ghosts of two decades of fandom haunted me. I was sure that I was going to have to settle for a "moral victory" of only losing by one to the NFC champs.
I am happy that we held. But believe me, those ghosts are not gone
Believe me, those ghosts are going to hang around until the Bills make the playoffs ... and then there will be new ghosts. No long-time Bills fan is ever free of them if the team shows even a bit of promise ... especially "Wide Right!".
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Trading Glenn for a Wr is the only way that this would make even a little bit of sense.
Actually, it doesn't. Glenn can play for another ten years at a high level (Jason Peters is still playing well 8 seasons after the Bills traded him away for next to nothing compared to his worth), anchoring the line at one of the hardest positions to play ... and to fill. Compared to LTs, fast WRs are much easier to find and develop.
The thing is that most fans don't appreciate the "big uglies" who man both the offensive and defensive lines until they're gone. A big part of the Bills' problems over the years of the Drought has also been that the FO and some HCs didn't appreciate them, either. The Bills will be needing to replace two significant cogs on their defensive and offensive lines in the near future because they're on the wrong side of 30: Kyle Williams and Richie Incognito. They really should draft replacements for both in 2018, and not Day Three after-thoughts. They don't need to also scramble for another LT prospect, too.
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Metrics, he's never consistently graded out as a top LT in this league. He's a better run blocker than a pass blocker but I've never truly believed he's an elite player similar to Wood...an above average player most of the time, but has a handful of terrible games throughout the season.
LOL. Whose "metrics"? Eric Wood is not an "elite" player, either.
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EJ Manuel is one of the worst qbs I have ever seen get significant playing time in the NFL. Give him what ever he wants, he will still be terrible. I hope he plays every game for Oakland
NOT.EVEN.CLOSE.
- First of all, Manuel's "significant playing time" consisted of 17 starts over four years in Buffalo, including 10 as a rookie.
- Secondly, you obviously never watched Mark Sanchez play after about the middle of his second season.
- Third, you obviously never watched Kelly Holcomb or Trent Edwards play for the Bills.
- Fourth, you obviously never watched Brock Osweiler play for the Houston Texans.
He played pretty well when he came in for Carr the other day. In one series he had two passed dropped that should have been TDs. The first would have had to have been a fine catch, but the second was right in the receiver's hands.
Agreed. I thought he looked significantly improved over the Buffalo version of EJ. There's something to be said for maturity and/or better coaching.
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If we could trade him for a legit #1 WR than why not?
For me Glenn is just ok even when healthy, but he's not elite and certainly replaceable given his contract.
Well, why not? First class LTs are almost as easy to find as good RBs and DBs. Maybe the Bills could coax Langston Walker out of retirement. //sarcasm
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I just thought it was an interesting thought. It would free up more cap space, net us another draft pick in return
CBF
The Bills don't need more future cap space so they can build the mythical winning team they've been building for seventeen years and have never been able to build because they're always trading away their best players to free up more cap space to build the great team in the future that never materializes. Enough is enough!
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I dunno man. Granted I only watched the first half - but Winston was unwatchable in the first half. Every time I watch Winston play he's lofting college-type passes into double coverage off of his back foot. Sure he's streaky and he'll put up yards and points against bad defenses, but when you watch him do you ever think, There's a guy who can take over a game? There's a guy who can will his team to a Super Bowl title? I sure don't. I just don't get the hype. Half of his game is just garbage.
^^^
His first half last night was terrible I absolutely agree with that. I think he still needs to be more consistent within games and across a season. There is a bit of early Matt Stafford in him in that he has never seen a throw he doesn't like. At the moment does he look like a Superbowl winning Quarterback? No, I agree he doesn't. I still think Tampa are a flawed team though. The pieces around him look better on paper than in reality and the coaching is crap.
Actually, if you compare Taylor's three years as a starter to Winston's three years as a starter, Taylor's completion % and QB rating are all higher than Winston's. Taylor's INT % is significantly lower than Winston's while his QBR for his two complete years is higher than Winston's as well. Winston has throw for more yards but he has 294 more passing attempts than Taylor has had in the last 3 years. Taylor's Y/A is only .1 lower than Winston's.
For QBs playing on teams with very different offensive philosophies, their stats are very similar when you look at the percentages and averages for them both as starters rather than just the raw numbers. Many of the same fans who believe Winston is a "franchise QB" regularly hate on Taylor because he doesn't put up the big raw stats that Winston does, apparently forgetting that the Bills are not a passing team and that the goal of playing games is to win them, not pass for 300+ yards and garner FFB points.
If the Bills continue to play well and win games with Taylor throwing for around +/-200 yards a game, taking care of the ball, and making key plays as he's done, how is he not a "franchise QB"? A franchise QB does what he needs to do with what he's got in order to win games ... and not only doesn't Taylor have the wide receivers to have success throwing the ball a lot downfield, but that's not the Bills' offensive philosophy.
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Look at the chiefs. They were in the final four, still drafted one of the top 3 QBs in Mahomes by trading with us. So its not impossible.
And Mahomes has done what in NFL games that count, exactly? Nothing. Nada. He hasn't even gotten into a game yet. He was also only the third best QB prospect in the 2017 draft. Most drafts yield only one QB who might be considered a "franchise QB", and some don't yield any.
I think trading up for any QB except the consensus #1 pick is foolish. If he's not clearly the very best guy in the draft, why are you willing to risk so much when there's little evidence to suggest it works? Let's be honest here: if a QB prospect is so great, why would the team not take him, even if they have a "franchise QB"? This isn't the "good old days" before the rookie salary scale when teams couldn't afford to draft a QB #1 over all when they already had an adequate starter. Moreover, if their current QB is so great, why are they picking #1?
Here are the trades for first round QBs for the last 15 years. Not many success stories here.
- In 2016, the Rams traded up to get Jared Goff. After a rocky rookie year, Goff looks better as a sophomore but he truly needs to be a great QB to be worth the picks. Goff being only as good as Carson Palmer or Alex Smith (pre-KC) wouldn't make most fans happy.
- In 2016 the Eagles also traded up to take a QB: Carson Wentz at #2. If Carson Wentz works out to be a franchise QB, the Eagles will be the only team to win the QB lottery by trading up for a non-overall #1 pick .
- In 2012, the Redskins gambled to take Robert Griffin III at #2. He was the OROY ... and he was never as good again. Many fans blame his injury, but the reality is that his style wasn't sustainable although the QB who made plays with his legs was briefly in vogue. It's a good thing they saved their bacon by drafting Kirk Cousins in the 4th round. Of course, the big winner in the QB lottery was Seattle who got Russell Wilson in the third. He's certainly the highest achiever among the 2012 QBs.
- In 2009, the Jests traded up to take Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez at #5. Sanchez looked decent as a rookie and early in his sophomore season, and then began sliding downhill.
- In 2004, the Giants traded a bunch of picks, including the #4 pick that they had used on Phillip Rivers, to land the #1 overall pick, Eli Manning. That was a win for the Giants. Eli is streaky, but he seems to bring his A game when it counts (hence 2 Lombardis) whereas Rivers seems to do just the opposite: he seems to fold in important games despite piling up impressive stats (hence only 1 playoff win in his career ... and only 1 playoff appearance since 2009).
- In 2004, the Bills traded back into the first round to take JP Losman at #22. For those with short memories, not only was Losman a bust, but the trade prevented the Bills from being able to take Aaron Rodgers with the #18 pick in 2005. Of course, the team that probably made out the best in 2004, which was a generational year for QBs, was Pittsburgh who took Ben Roethlisberger at #11, easily the best and most consistent QB from 2004 and a future HOFer.
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Hes playing well and if it keeps up I would expect him to be back next year as our starter with hopefully another young guy being groomed behind him.
The Bills would be foolish to not keep Taylor if he continues to play well simply because there's no guarantee that the Bills are going to find their "future franchise QB" in the 2018 draft. The Bills have tried drafting QBs in the first round, and both were busts. If 2018 is a dud year for QBs like 2013 was, it won't even matter if the Bills have the #1 pick in the draft. Even a draft with a lot of prospects likely to go in the first round doesn't mean that the Bills will pick the right one. They traded back into the first round to take Losman in a draft that not only produced with three other first round QBs who were all successful but also a third rounder who was a decent starter for several years. Aside from that, a young QB might not be ready for the NFL in his first or even his second year, especially since so many colleges no longer play pro-style offenses.
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I watched parts of the Chargers-Eagles game. There had to be a lot more Eagles fans than Chargers fans in the stadium because they were cheering whenever the Eagles made plays ... and booing whenever calls went against them ... to the point that the announcers mentioned it more than once.
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Don't do this to yourselves, fellow Bills fans.
The Bills are in the hunt, for sure. But this is basically saying that they're a Superbowl contender already.
As McD would say, "pump the breaks." I love the way they've played so far, but I'm not paying attention to these rankings until at least half way through the season.
When they secure a playoff spot, then I'll do a happy dance. Through bitter experience, I've learned not to get my hopes up about this team. There are still 12 games left.
Greg ward jr and Malcolm Jenkins?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Whyever not? If the WRs on the Bills practice squad were any good, they'd be starting already.