SoTier
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1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:
And finally some cap space. They also can utilize some draft capital to trade for players, if needed.
If they do that, how are they going to package those draft picks to move up and draft their Yet-To-Be-Named Savior Franchise QB? After all, if they don't have their franchise QB, what's the whole point of building up the team since they won't be able to win the SB without one.
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4 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:
I agree with this but I think the league and everyone knows the Bills have not been that committed to Taylor. Factor in that they haven't been afraid to make controversial moves with the Watkins and Dareus trade leaving the benching completely out of it.
It's such a conservative league, I think the league would just wait until the Bills have to make a decision on the 3rd league day of the year on whether to pick up the option. The contract status, lack of organizational commitment before the benching really kill any potential trade value for Tyrod imo. If it was the NBA or NHL I'd completely agree with your view.
Cam Newton made it to the Superbowl and lost to a team that a lot of people thought Carolina was better than.
Cam Newton didn't win a Superbowl, but he was certainly capable that year.
Colin Kaepernick lost at the very end and just didn't finish that year. Do I think he could do it now or has been the same since? Absolutely not, but the defense essentially retired after that year. Harbaugh got ran off and they just finally hired a legit coach. Colin Kaepernick did not prevent that team from winning the superbowl regardless of what you think of him off the field. He destroyed Green Bay in Green Bay vs Aaron Rodgers with his style and they had no answer and he didnt get hurt.
I also noticed you conveniently left Russel Wilson out too.
These guys were all better than Tyrod at their peak so it's moot. But the general point you are trying to make I think is just wrong. And the OC agrees with you, so that's why we are at benching Tyrod and playing a 1980s style offense.
It's also funny how we say hey so and so never won a Superbowl. So him and his style can't do it. There has been less then 50 super bowl winning QBs. You pointed out guys that are a coin flip away essentially from being Superbowl winning QBs and said that style cant work. It doesn't count, but heads or tails for a SB, I'll take.
We never go hey Jake Plummer, Gus Ferrotte, Marc Bulger, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, and really Drew Bledsoe counts... Those guys couldn't win a Superbowl, that style of play never works.
Jim Kelly never won a SB in 4 tries, either.
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On 11/17/2017 at 9:44 AM, BadLandsMeanie said:
I wake up and I have hope for the team. Peterman might not suck. That is all. There is a chance, that he will not be lousy. He might be good. And it is making me feel hopeful and even happy. Just because there is a chance now, however small. This here song goes along with that feeling for me.
All we ever wanted is to feel alive!
Have the Bills suddenly fixed their defense while the fans and the media were focused on the QB change? Of course not, so there's no more hope today than there was 6 days ago. Exchanging one active roster scrub for a practice squad scrub isn't going to do much to improve a defense that gave up nearly 500 yards and 9 TDs on the ground in 2 games.
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There's a whole lot of whistling past the graveyard in this thread.
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15 hours ago, Punt75 said:
Figure it out! 70% of the players on the current roster are new to the Bills. 70%! Imagine a company firing 70% of its employees and starting over.
And, these new players aren't big-time stars. They came cheap. Humber was a S/T's player most of his career. E.J. Gaines was a 6th round pick 4 years ago. Shareece Wright shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Jordan Poyer was a 7th round pick by the Eagles and then played four years with the Browns before they cut him loose. Ryan Davis & Lorenzo Alexander wouldn't play for many other NFL teams.
The Coaches & Management knew this. The FANS realized it to. For some crazy reason we got off to a wonderful start in the season. One reason was turn-overs. They came our way in bunches. Any long time fan knows that all evens out.
Tyrod was shaky last year. He looked better with all those turn-overs by the defense this year. We all hoped for a miracle season but real NFL football caught up with us!
It's time for a QB change and an offensive strategy re-start. Get the receivers involved and hopefully our most talented player in the backfield will excel. GO BILLS!IOW, almighty McDermott lied with a sincere smile plastered on his face when he claimed they were trying to win games while rebuilding. That sounds about right. Con artists are great actors.
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10 hours ago, Manther said:
Well said. I agree with your thoughts. Surely not elite. Better than average when playing his best, but, that happens less than half the time.
I agree with Alphadog's thoughts on Eli, too. I think the most notable aspect of Eli is his streakiness. That has stood out about him since he was a rookie. All QBs can have hot and cold streaks, but Eli's have been spectacular at times and seem to last longer than simply a handful of games. When he's "on", he not only can carry a team, he seemingly makes miraculous plays, but then there's "bad Eli" who becomes a turn over machine.
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On 11/16/2017 at 9:23 PM, ShadyBillsFan said:
the NFL is a business
That's right, and the Bills' business model is to keep actual current payroll as low as possible while keeping ticket/merchandise sales as high as possible to maximize profits. Winning is totally irrelevant as they've demonstrated this season.
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47 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:
Speaking about your first paragraph, my first reaction to that line of thinking is being annoyed. My second reaction is that reasoning seems scary to me. Do we really have a large group of people who assume as a given that black athletes are automatically better at everything? And that any area where black athletes do not dominate, is proof of unfairness?
That sounds an awful lot like racial superman kind of thinking to me. I can't think of any other way to view it actually. So it makes me pretty uneasy. There are no racial supermen and any time people have started to believe that it has lead to very bad things.
Look at the rosters, BLM. Most NFL players are black. It's a fact not an opinion.
Young black men, especially those from poor backgrounds, gravitate to football and basketball because they offer real opportunities for talented kids to get out of poverty. Sports are certainly a better choice than criminal activity or just giving up. Most poor kids, white or black, don't have many options.
Blacks aren't the only groups in the US that have used sports as keys to upward mobility. At various times and places in the US since after the Civil War, various immigrant groups dominated the popular sports of their eras: Irish, Germans, Jews, Italians, Hispanics. Young men with next to nothing except their athleticism and talent, and not much help from the larger society, used sports to better themselves and leap into the middle class. In the case of blacks, the larger society has tended to be virulently hostile until relatively recently.
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1 hour ago, simool said:
It's been like that for so long, I guess I have gotten used to it. It makes it extra special when we prove them wrong. I remember everyone saying Cordy Glenn projected as a guard and they could not believe we drafted him so high as a tackle... Pffft. Generally if we are doing the opposite of what the national media wants us to do I am pleased.
How, exactly, have the Bills proved the national media wrong any time recently ... other than embarrassing those prognosticators who thought the Bills were potentially a playoff team before the Jests game?
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1 hour ago, Chris from Rochester said:
I'm new the forum here, but have enjoyed reading the stadium wall for years. I looked to see if I could find this topic discussed and did not see it so wanted to bring it up. I am not a huge fan of WGR, however yesterday Bulldog was talking to John Clayton and Clayton said something along the lines of the Bills made a bad decision because Tyrod is good enough to get them to the first round of the playoffs to which Bulldog respectfully replied he's tired of hearing how it's "good for Buffalo."
I know we haven't had the best sports franchises for some time now, but the way the national media talks about us is certainly tiresome. I like the path "McBean" has us on and I feel good about the way we are run. We have a clear vision and that's something we haven't had in a very long time. I know, win and we will get respect, but I really wish the national media would do their homework before commenting on our situation and tell us what's "good for Buffalo." Look forward to reading your thoughts and comments!
The Bills have had all of 21 winning seasons in their 67 years of existence, only 2 of them in this century and none under the current ownership.
The Bills haven't made the playoffs in seventeen years, the longest active post season drought in professional sports, and they are apparently doing just about everything possible to insure that their record for futility continues into the foreseeable future.
If you don't like the national media insulting/mocking/criticizing the Buffalo Bills ineptitude, I suggest you complain to the people who can do something about it, the Pegulas.
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19 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:
Regardless if he said it recently or not, the narrative is out there. Heard it yesterday on WGR and now ESPN is running with it. Bottom line is good Quarterbacks dont get benched.
Ask Warren Moon, Donovan McNabb, Dante Culpepper in Minnesota, Michael Vick, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Jameis Winston and you can even add Marcus Mariota to that mix because I dont think its fair to limit the scope of the statement.
The statement is wrong, and detrimental in so many ways.
Something like 70-80 percent of NFL players are black, and blacks make up the majority of players at every position except QB and special positions like kickers and long snappers. Less than a third (10 of 32) of the starting QBs are/have been black this season ... and that includes Brent Hundley who is replacing the injured Aaron Rodgers as well as Jacoby Brissette who was originally subbing for Andrew Luck who was expected to return. That's way under the 16-22 one would expect if blacks were given the same opportunities to be QBs in the NFL as whites, so a casual observer might very well think that there's something to the story.
IMO, the problem isn't so much in the NFL as it is in big time college football. Just like there' are few no black HCs at the marquee collegiate programs that produce the majority of professional players, there's a dearth of black QBs starting at many of those same programs, perhaps most. My guess is that many/most young black QBs talented enough to be recruited into major collegiate programs are encouraged (sometimes by coaches but sometimes by family or friends) to play other positions beside QB because they're perceived as offering more opportunity to make the pros. That results in most of the top collegiate QB prospects being white. If you don't think this happens, read the bios of a lot of black pros playing other positions ... a significant number were HS QBs.
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9 hours ago, Greybeard said:
Early in the year that Harris was drafted, I read a sports magazine that had OJ and Harris as future stars of the game that would lead Buffalo out of the depression they were in. That could have been the greatest depression ever, although there are a fair number of contenders. So I watched Harris's progress closely. He probably had the greatest arm of any Bills QB. They had a drill where the QB had to throw the ball through a swinging tire. Harris hardly ever missed. He was also plenty tall enough to see over the line. That was the good.
During his first training camp, he missed a lot of time. It was reported as a "stomach issue." It certainly did not help his progress. He also didn't have much of a touch on short passes. He seemed to throw a 10 yard pass with the same velocity as a 40 yard pass. A lot of short passes were just too hot to catch. And remember Rauch's idea of using OJ was to free him up using short passes.
I was always disappointed he didn't start more often but it is not like he was playing so well they had to play him. I don't buy into the black versus white issue. The team/coaching really sucked back then. A familiar theme over the years.
I have to admit, when EJ stood in the pocket, it reminded me of Harris but EJ never had Harris's accuracy. I was also a fan of Fergy. He was a much better passer than many give him credit for.
So I have never bought into a QB since Harris. I never believe the hype. Not even Jim Kelly before he played here. I always take the wait and see attitude. Anyone may be the savior. Anyone may not be. The reality is, a QB will not be deemed the answer until he is, and that is solely based on winning. And even then there will always be those that will believe he isn't.
Totally agree about Harris. I think he played in a very difficult situation, less so in Buffalo than in some other cities. I remember the way he threw those short passes, too. JP Losman threw short passes the same way, only not quite so hard. Of course, back in Harris' day, QBs didn't care much about short passes anyways. That's what a whole lot of fans today don't understand about those QBs back in the 1960s and 1970s, they played an entirely different game so their stats don't look quite so impressive. If you couldn't heave a football forty yards in the air with some accuracy, they sent you home.
BTW, Harris eventually became an exec with the NFL IIRC.
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I'm rooting for the Steelers because I like them even if their fans give rednecks a bad name ... and I like the Jags a whole lot more than the Titans anyways.
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1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:
EJ was not by "all" accounts a first round pick -- at all. Rosen and Darnold, on the other hand, are not late bloomers - they have been touted as first rounders long before their final college seasons. The same can't be said about most of the people you mention above. Locker is the only one.
Who the hell cares what some draft analyst or media expert claims about players? If every single one of the first round picks he touts in a particular draft busts, who the hell remembers a few years down the road? If pro evaluators miss on too many top picks, they're out the door, so I'll go with the pros' evaluations of most of those failed QBs.
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1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:
By *all* accounts, there will be multiple first-round caliber qbs next year.
Well, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, RG III, Brandon Weeden, and EJ Manuel were by "all accounts" first round caliber QBs in their draft classes, too, but they didn't play like it on the field. I believe that most of them are out of the league now. Brian Bortles, the #3 pick in 2014, looks set to follow their trail. A lot of these QBs that get taken in the first round are the products of high-powered college programs and/or their agents' hype machines. With most colleges no longer using pro-style offenses, it's even harder to separate the pretenders from the contenders because even scouts have to guess if some of these QBs would be effective doing the things pro QBs are expected to do.
IMO, if there's a young QB you really like, maybe you ought to take him even if you already have a serviceable QB as a starter. The Bills passed on Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins in 2012 because they had Ryan Fitzpatrick (also because Wilson is short and Cousins is slight). They passed on Watson and Mahomes in 2017 because they had Taylor even though they weren't sure about him -- and because they were in desperate need of a DB after allowing Gilmore to walk. This is part of a bigger issue than just about QBs; the Bills have simply not planned for the future essentially since Polian left. When they lose players to retirement or injury or to their own stubborn refusal to pay market rate for outstanding players, they have to scramble to fill that hole with either a rookie or a journeyman FA because they never develop their own players. They're always running behind, so all positions are impacted, but probably none so much as the QB position.
With all that said, does anybody really believe that they won't take a first round QB in 2018? Not me. I said back in September that they were going to jettison Taylor and draft a rookie in the first round, and everything continues to point in that direction.
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6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:
Can't pass on QB AGAIN.
Assuming Peterman doesn't look like the next coming of Brady, they need to draft QB with their first round pick. Stop passing on QBs. Why is that so easy for them?
As for the defense, this is the roster McBeane assembled so they have no one to blame but themselves for the ****ty talent.They'll have cap room to work with so I suspect they'll bring in a few FAs to help patch some holes, but they need just about EVERYTHING. I'd start upfront with getting some interior pass rushers.
I knew they were in trouble when Rico said in the offseason he didn't care what they did last season on offense.
Sounding like a coach who will force his system on the players... which is exactly what we are getting.
What if there is no QB that's worth a first round pick when the Bills pick? That's my only disagreement with the idea of your statement, "they need to draft QB with their first round pick". There's absolutely no guarantee that just because you need a QB (or a LB or DT) that a good one will be there waiting for you. The 2018 class might well be a dud like 2013.
The biggest pitfall of drafting a QB in the first round is that he's going to prevent your team from drafting another one in the first round for the duration of his contract most likely. It's just a fact of life. There's 1 starting QB on a team who gets most of the reps and the coaches' attention. Any other QBs get crumbs. When the first round QB is struggling to become a first rate starter if he can, he gets all the attention. The team isn't going to invest another first rounder the next year or the year after to sit on the bench and vegetate.
Even QBs on rookie contracts are more expensive than OLers or DBs, so the team may very well miss on much better prospects if they take a QB in the first round just to say that they took one. IMO, that's what they did in both 2004 and in 2013. They missed out on Aaron Rodgers in 2005 for JP Losman, and they missed out on Derek Carr because they'd drafted EJ Manuel in 2013. It seems to me that they're prepping themselves to again draft a QB in the first round just because they think it will excite the fans not that the kid they take is a real blue-chip prospect, which removes the draft selection from the realm of rational decision making and puts it over in the pure chance, lottery winning realm. Maybe they'll get lucky, but probably not. Not many people win big lottery jackpots, either.
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4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:
No. I think the players being coached are under-talented.
This. Just look at how many of their first, second, and third round picks, almost all of them starters, the Bills have shed since last season. Look at who they replaced them with: JAGS, STers, practice squad refugees, busts. Yeah, every once in a while a low round/UDFA guy comes along and becomes great, and many part timers play important roles on winning teams, but the reality is that the Day 3 guys and UDFAs generally have less talent than the guys drafted on Day 1.
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40 minutes ago, Klaista2k said:
Why has the front office completely ignored the running back position this season?
Probably for the same reasons that the Bills haven't had an NFL-caliber WR corps and why Vlad Ducasse is their starting RG: they couldn't find anybody to meet their standards of character as determined by how much they "buy into" McDermott's "process".
1 minute ago, John from Hemet said:If there is a god Cadet will come in and provide quality relief to shady so much so that they "keep the hot hand going"
How can a Bills fan believe there is a god ... unless he/she/it is a vengeful one?
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2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:
I think Dennison is safe for this year, he is going to get a pass from the generally very loyal McDermott and Dennison can point to having Tyrod Taylor and a rookie as QBs.
Agreed. He's probably safe next season, too, since the Bills will draft a QB in the first round in 2018 and likely rush him to play ASAP, which means that most offensive problems will get blamed on the rookie not on Dennison.
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2 hours ago, Virgil said:
There are two sides of Flutie.
The positive side was that he played one of the original versions of “street ball” and just found ways to win. He was exciting and unorthodox. He was short, but could run. Sound familiar?
The negative was that he was never supposed to be “the guy”. We traded high for Rob Johnson who showed flashes, but had overall more stinkers. But because both were capable, there were A LOT of rumors about Flutie trying to turn the locker room against Rob. Flutie was likable via the media, but many thought it was an act.
As for the MCM, Flutie was the starter pretty much all season and the reason we made the playoffs. We benched a few starters in Week 17 to give them a “bye” week and rest. Rob Johnson played out of his mind that game. I mean, he looked like a hall of famer to be honest. From that, Wade made the choice to start him from that one game.
The rest is history.
It wasn't Wade's choice. It was Wilson's.
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Absolutely the fans of the Buffalo Bills. All of 17 playoff teams and 21 winning seasons in 67 years. The longest active playoff drought in sports today.
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4 hours ago, KingRex said:
He lasted through 5 rounds due to a consensus judgment of every scout in the league. The consensus can obviously make big time mistakes (look no further than Tom Brady).
However, the scouts as a whole generally make pretty good judgments and Peterman was correctly judged to be one of the ready to go players, but simply did not demonstrate that his potential for a strong start did not show a lot of long-term upside.
My sense is that he will not be an embarrassment as a player, but he is unlikely to solve the real problems on this team that have led two straight blowout loses.
1. The QB switch does nothing for a DL which without Dareus simply demands that an opponent run up the middle again and again. Yes, Dareus was a problem child and not a McD/Beane guy. The Bills survived with him being part of the rotation and even the occaisional game without him, but having him as part of a rotation and forcing the opposing OL to prepare not to be embarassed by this juvenile talent instead of preparing how to exploit Worthy has made our D a problem that a QB making our O better is not gonna solve this problem.
2. Denison has really shown little as OC. He likely will give the same mediocre play calling for NP he did for TT.
3. Our QB coach and OC proved unable to train TT out of a particular set of specific problems (Holds the ball too long, loss of Watkins ended deep ball threat (and even losing Woods as a solid #2). Benjamin pick-up was a good one, but his contribution ((if any) is likely on him rather than differentiating QCs.
4. Our OL played great the last two years but has performed poorly this year. NP is a better runner than expected but the escapability employed by TT was extraordinary. NP is gonna have to run for his life or we may be seeing Tyrod sooner than expected.
I'd probably can Denison before canning TT.
Good post that pretty much sums up my views, too. I will add that the Bills also don't even have a functional running game at present. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's likely to take at least three seasons of hopeless, mind-numbing losing to move OBD drive to admit they made a mistake with Beane/McDermott et al.
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2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:
I get tired of hearing that GM and HC weren't on the same page.
Whaley was the #1 or #2 ranking FO member from 2010-2016.
He said that Rex had the same philosophy on how to build a team, so I don't buy this same page excuse.
The Bills don't Draft well, that's the biggest problem. The second biggest problem is a string of poor coaches: Jauron, Gailey, Marrone, Rex (who I thought would be better).
I am not sold on McDermot or Beane. They are obsessed with running the ball and special teams. Let's see if this butter knife/popgun offense looks any better or is called anymore aggressively with Peterman.
The Bills don't draft great, but they certainly draft about as well as most NFL teams, which ought to get them into the playoffs every once in a while at least. What the Bills don't do is retain their draftees, especially their Day 1 and Day 2 picks. Read 'em and weep:
2017 - 6 picks, 6 on team
2016 - 7 picks, 2 on team: 1st-Lawson, 3rd-Washington; on other teams: 2nd - Reggie Ragland (KC)
2015 - 6 picks, 2 on team: 3rd- Miller, 6th-O'Leary; on other teams: 2nd - Ronald Darby (Philly)
2014 - 7 picks, 1? on team : 3rd-Brown, not sure what's become of 7th-Seanntrel Henderson; on other teams: 1st -Sammy Watkins (LAR)
2013 - 8 picks, 0 on team: on other teams: 1st- EJ Manuel (Oak), 2nd- Robert Woods (LAR), 2nd-Kiko Alonso (Miami), 3rd- Marquise Goodwin (SF), 6th- Dustin Hopkins (Wash)
2012 - 9 picks, 1 on team: 2nd-Glenn - on other teams: 1st - Stephon Gilmore (Patriots), 4th-Nigel Bradham (Philly)
2011 - 9 picks, 0 on team - on other teams: 1st-Marcel Dareus (Jax), 3rd- Kelvin Sheppard (NYG), 4th-Da'Norris Searcy (Tenn)
2010 - 9 picks, 0 on team - on other teams: 6th-Arthur Moats (Steelers)
8 minutes ago, ctk232 said:No doubt - don't disagree that it's difficult, or not necessary in the least. Elaborating may have helped here: team chemistry > individual talent. And that can extend to include a talented individual who's attitude and personality negatively impact a teams chemistry to the point where it affects performance of the team overall.
Team chemistry does not mean fitting into a single rigid mold either in action or thought. People are not robots. They have different talents, different attitudes, and different temperaments. Any team, whether a football team or a project team in a work environment, functions best when everybody on the team wants the same goal, even if they approach achieving that goal differently. That's team chemistry because the whole becomes greater than the simple sum of its parts, and it's much more resilient in the face of trouble, primarily because team members tend to support one another.
That doesn't seem to be what McDermott is building at all. He seems to simply be requiring his players to accept his philosophy because he's sure that he knows what's best. As long as his philosophy can produce wins, most players will accept his rules but if he can't sustain winning they'll stop believing in short order.
45 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:I disagree but it's nice seeing another person on the other side I can watch eat crow. The moves they've made so far make sense to me. Let's see how they play this week. Truth is if Peterman lights a fire in the offense, we could easily be in the playoffs with a weak AFC this year. Don't dive off the ship just yet
The operative word is "if". You are assuming that Peterman is going to be successful which is highly unlikely for any green rookie QB starting his very first NFL game. It makes a wonderful fantasy but it's likely not happening given the serious deficiencies the Bills have.
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4 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:
Let's hope not. Pegula's have been great for Buffalo. their knowledge of football & hockey, their seemingly easily influenced front office moves, are suspect. Terry Pegula doesn't seem like a control freak. it's hard to see him going over his new regimes head, and showing lack of trust for the process he hired them for.
Who's the President of the Buffalo Bills ... and the Buffalo Sabres?
Great MMQB article on Tyrod/Bills decision
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Why don't they have better options? Oh, yeah, they opted to go with STers and PS refugees on the DL ... and then they traded away their best DLer for a 6th rounder supposedly because he didn't "buy into" the new system although the Bills were trying to peddle Dareus since before the first OTA.