SoTier
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Posts posted by SoTier
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17 hours ago, Da webster guy said:
Well he did grade out pretty well last season in run blocking, maybe that Chargers game was just a bad day at the office for him.
Only in an alternative universe.
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RIP, Coach Knox. He was probably the Bills best coach ever, given the talent he had on his rosters, compared to what Saban and Levy had on theirs.
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5 hours ago, Domdab99 said:
the line was fine...it will be fine this year, too.
Keep telling yourself that when the Bills offense scores even fewer points than last year ... and then blame it all on McCarron or Allen, whoever has the misfortune to be the starting QB. The Bills OL wasn't "fine" in 2017, and the prospects for it being "fine" in 2018 are highly unlikely.
Statistical "analyses" of OLs are jokes that seem aimed at "proving" poor OLs aren't nearly as bad as they played.
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5 hours ago, nedboy7 said:
There are still solid independent news sources. Of course you need to read several that oppose each other so you can sniff out the BS
Sorry, but news is not dependent upon the reporter's political views. News is the simple facts of a story: what happened, who was involved, when it happened, and where it happened. Example: Joe's house in Timbuktu burned down on Tuesday or the President addressed Congress on the economy on Friday. Whether someone subscribes to one particular political creed or another doesn't change the facts. If it does, then that "reporter" isn't reporting news at all but spreading propaganda.
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13 hours ago, racketmaster said:
When discussing Josh Allen, inevitably his career college completion percentage (56.2%) comes up in the conversation. Most analysts seem to be in agreement that there are very few examples in recent history of quarterbacks who have had sub 60% completion percentage and still had NFL success. Favre and Stafford seem to be the most cited examples of the anomalies. Therefore, Allen will have to be an “outlier” in order to have any measure of NFL. Allen is thought to end up being the next Jake Locker or Kyle Boller. I tend to believe that completion percentage does not necessarily equal accuracy (many other factors come into play). But that discussion has been had many times before and I was just interested in seeing what other quarterbacks may be out there that had a sub 60% completion percentage and also a decent amount of NFL success. I went back to quarterbacks drafted 1990 and forward. I know the game has evolved since then and completion percentages tend to be much higher today because of the types of schemes teams tend to run at the college level. But I still think it was worth looking into especially since Allen has not run a gimmicky college offense but rather he has operated in a pro style passing offense where he has been asked to make a higher percentage of difficult downfield throws (more like what quarterbacks were asked to do in the 1980’s and 1990’s).
Below is a list of other quarterbacks who have had at least a decent career and also had a less than 60% completion percentage in college. I know “decent” is subjective but I was looking at quarterbacks who have at least stuck around a long time as high end backups or at least had brief periods of solid success as a starter. This is not a complete list but I think it covers most if not all of the quality starters drafted from 1990 to the Present.
Brett Favre 52.4% Southern Miss. 1990
Mark Brunell 52.0% Washington 1993
Kerry Collins 56.3% Penn State 1995
Drew Bledsoe 54.3% Washington State 1993
Brian Griese 59.5% Michigan 1998
Jeff George 58.8% Illinois 1990
Jake Plummer 55.4% Arizona State 1996
Jeff Garcia 56.8% San Jose State 1994
Donovan McNabb 58.4% Syracuse 1999
Neil O’Donnell 58.8% Maryland 1990
Trent Dilfer 59.1% Fresno State 1994
Trent Green 55.8% Indiana 1993
Jake Delhomme 52.6% Louisiana 1997
Matt Hasselbeck 55.6% Boston College 1998
Mike Vick 56.0% Va Tech 2000
Tyrod Taylor 57.2% Va Tech 2011
Colin Kaepenick 58.2% 2011
Matthew Stafford 57.1% Georgia 2009
Josh McCown 51.2% SMU 2002
Carson Palmer 59.1% USC 2003
Kyle Orton 58.8% Purdue 2005
David Garrard 57.0% East Carolina 2002
Jay Cutler 57.2% Vanderbilt 2006
Matt Ryan 59.9% Boston College 2008
Brian Hoyer 55.8% Michigan State 2009
Derek Anderson 50.7% Oregon State 2005
Chad Henne 59.7% Michigan 2008
After looking back at the quarterbacks, I was surprised to find so many that were sub 60% since 1990. I was under the impression that there were only a handful since Brett Favre came out but there were at least 6-7 high quality starters in the group. Hopefully, this gives those stuck on Allen’s lower completion percentage a little more hope. And the positive thing for Allen is that he has some rare physical traits that can help him overcome the perceived inaccuracy issue.
IMO, you're scrambling to find examples so you've used the meaningless phrase, "some success". I would use a stricter standard: only QBs who were considered franchise QBs for the bulk of their careers. That's Favre, Brunell, Bledsoe, Plummer, Garcia, Hasselbeck, and McNabb pre 2000. Maybe Green and Delhomme, too. That's 7 franchise QBs in about a decade. Post 2000, which is almost twice as long as the first time frame, there's only half as many franchise QBs: Vick, Palmer, Ryan, and Stafford. That's a reflection of how much the game has changed over the last twenty years.
Given that Allen was a top ten draft pick for whom the Bills expended additional draft capital beyond the #7 pick, I think if he's fails to develop into a franchise QB, he will be a major disappointment at best, and that's even if he performs at about Jay Cutler's level. If he does no better than a McCown or Orton or have a meteoric career like Anderson or Kaepernick, he'll be considered a bust.
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1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:
Losman and Manuel were chosen in the first round because the Bills chose them. Otherwise both likely would have fallen into the 2nd Round or later.
Allen was always a Top 10 pick throughout the process, was strongly considered to be the #1 pick by the Browns and would have been chosen in the Top 10 by another team if the Bills hadn't chosen him first.
That's the difference.
You don't know that for a fact. If the Bills hadn't traded up, it's possible that neither does Arizona or maybe the Cards always wanted Rosen and would have taken him with the tenth pick even with Allen available so that Allen would have been available at #12. Not what actually happened nor what might have happened changes the Allen's quality as a NFL QB prospect. He is what he is, at #7 or #12 or at #22.
Moreover, "Allen was always a Top 10 pick throughout the process" is simply hype from the media draft mavens; he was only a "Top 10" pre-draft because the talking heads said he was. Allen's stock rose significantly only after his Combine performance IIRC, so he might not have actually been "always a Top 10 pick throughout the process". He was a good story, and after Carson Wentz's meteoric rise and his Combine, there was a lot more interest in a kid from ND State. Those same talking heads claimed that Sam Darnold was the best QB in the draft ... until he wasn't, and Cleveland didn't take either when they could have, did they? They took the QB who actually produced in games, not just in shorts and controlled situations, and who demonstrated accuracy, good mechanics, knowledge of the game, on-field leadership, etc.
Mayfield and Rosen were the best prospects in this draft, and Mayfield was better than Rosen because he doesn't have the concussion injury. That's a very valid reason IMO to downgrade him, and I think it factored into evaluations. Darnold and Allen only really had excuses for why they didn't do was well as Mayfield or Rosen; the excuses were a constant whenever the media experts listed their QBs. Now, maybe some or all of the excuses were legit, but Allen is still the same thing that Losman and Manuel were: a project QB who has a greater chance of busting than succeeding as an NFL QB, and that's not because of where he was drafted but because of the skills and talents he has or doesn't have.
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22 hours ago, dlonce said:
In another post I pointed to people who do not know enough about what a good QB looks like to make the mistakes you have.
JP, Trent, EJ and Tyrod were not ever good QBs,they never were going to be good QBs.You fell in love with these guys,probably like your love for Rosen.
You’re a fan, you want your QB to succeed,that’s normal.
Youve applied past failures as your litmust test to the future results. I’m going to go opposite of what you have said because of your past, but now you’ve learned. You go by what you see,not because you’re a homer.
So, what is it you see? Is it independent thought or are you listening to the clowns on sports talk radio?
Give us something better than a 56% completion rate. The difference between 56% and 60% is minimal.
How, exactly, is Josh Allen all that different from JP Losman or EJ Manuel? All three were NOT the consensus best player in their draft class, which is pretty much the closest a QB comes to being a "sure thing" in the draft, but all three were first round picks. All three were selected in the first round because the Bills were set on drafting a QB in the first round. All three were considered "projects" who would have to sit for a season or two to be ready for the NFL because they all had faults with their mechanics. For the record, no first round QB considered a "project" has developed into a successful NFL QB in the last two or three decades, and that has been what has so many Bills fans worried.
That you lumped Edwards and Taylor, neither of whom were first rounders, together with failed first rounders as "bad QBs" demonstrates that YOU don't know what you're talking about. Drafting a QB in the top ten doesn't necessarily make him better than other first QBs. Vince Young was drafted #3, Jake Locker #8, and Blaine Gabbert #10. Aaron Rodgers was drafted at #24. Russell Wilson was a third round pick, and of course Tom Brady was a flyer taken in the sixth round.
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20 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:
I think he is the best example of how much a first impression can carry you far.
He won the superbowl early on and has been much less effective ever since. He has also been a negative in terms of leadership and personality and obviously his off field behavior.
The Stillers in general have been "much less effective" since they won their last SB. In recent years, their defense simply hasn't been as good as it needs to be for them to win in the playoffs, especially when they play in the same conference with Brady and the Pats, and their cap troubles have limited their ability to fix it. Getting together a good enough team to be true Super Bowl contenders under the salary cap is a major problem for just about all of the teams with great QBs ... except for NE.
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18 hours ago, ScottLaw said:
He's a moron.
You beat me to it. Roethlisberger may be a great QB on the field, but off the field, he's rivals your average golden retriever in IQ.
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33 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:
Yes he's a guard now and Robinson was tried there as well. Joeckel is a great fit for what we do imo. He actually played pretty well in Seattle before he got hurt, and he should come cheap at this point.
If he can play guard even decently, then I'm for bringing him in. He'd be an instant upgrade at LG (where there's no legit starter) and possibly at RG as well.
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17 minutes ago, Magnum Force said:
How about either Luke Joekel or Greg Robinson as a reclamation project? Both are young and highly touted out of college but haven't been able to put it together at the pro level.
Both are OTs which is not nearly as pressing a need as OC/OG, but the Bills could use upgrades at both OTs just for depth. I'm not sure that the Bills can afford Joekel or Robinson, though, especially as depth players. Established OLers, even when they're busts, are old, and/or injury-prone are expensive in FA. Another concern is that Dawkins being only a sophomore, he's not exactly a sure thing. He wouldn't be the first kid to have an impressive rookie season and then fail to play up to that standard again. The Bills may rue the day that they traded away Cordy Glenn, especially if Allen doesn't work out.
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9 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:
And to continue that optimism, we then trade AJ for a first and a third next year..
That's not optimism, that's delusion brought on by downing too many Fosters.
7 hours ago, Scorp83 said:I'm a huge Bills fan...but I've been a Bills fan for almost 30yrs ... I've been here... I've seen their mistakes. & drafting Allen looks like a huge one.... this feeling you have is called "Bills Delusional Hope" I had this with JP...Trent... especially after Trent beat the Chargers... I was at that game, we were 5-0... man... what a high... then Fitz... his hot start was amazing. Then I had "Bills Delusional Hope" when we drafted EJ... funny how Mike Mayock was high on this Kid too... now I'm experienced... I don't go by hope...i go by what I see, I started listening to my brain & not my heart. When you have "Bills Delusional Hope" you don't see failure, you only feel success is on its way. That's a bad place to be
?????????? yea...ok buddy lol...smh wow ??
Well said on both counts, sir!
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The poll needs a third option for us skeptics, something like, "I'll wait to see what he can do before I commit to loving or hating him."
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The Giants were never going QB at #2. They spent the off season getting Eli protection and weapons, and all they needed was a RB. The only way they weren't taking Barkley was if Cleveland took him #1. In that case, they likely would have taken Chubb.
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It's highly unlikely that either the OL or the WRs "will be fine" despite all the whistling past the graveyard.
The Bills have a decent LT, a journeyman RT, and a black hole in the interior of the OL. They are depending upon a backup and a rookie to replace a solid OC. They are hoping that 1 of the 2 RGs who struggled last season can step up and play better. AFAIK, they have only a name penciled in at LG to replace a Pro Bowl LG. This is easily the worst pre-season OL the Bills have had since 2009. They're depending upon backups to replace good starters, and didn't add any depth.
The WR unit stunk last season with 1 NFL-caliber WR (Benjamin) on the roster, and he only arrived in mid-season, and was hurt for much of his time with the Bills. Jones was a bust, and will have to have a major turn around to even merit a starting spot on this poor unit. All the others are STers or street FAs. What have the Bills done to improve their WRs? Nothing. AJ McCarron isn't Tom Brady who can make useful WRs out of rookies and street FAs, and if Josh Allen has the misfortune to see the field (which seems likely because of the crappy OL), he's likely doomed.
I hope I'm wrong, but I'm really afraid that the Bills are going to struggle to score on offense even more than they did last year, which doesn't bode well for them winning many games.
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14 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:
It's that the yardstick? A Lombardi or pack up?
Read my post again. I said IF McDermott was still HC when the contract renewal came up, then he'd have input, but he'd have to do something spectacular -- like winning the SB -- in order to completely override competing considerations as to where hold TC. I don't believe that the Pegulas are going to cede the right to make what is essentially a business decision to a head coach unless he does something spectacular.
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15 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:
Again playing the whole “coulda, shoulda, woulda” game is pathetic. Bottom line...the Bills made the playoffs for the first time in 2 decades. Of course they got some lucky breaks, as most teams do during every season. The fact remained that the Bills teams for nearly 20 years were so bad, that couldn’t get in the playoffs. I really get annoyed when people short- change the team. What McDermott did was a limited roster last season was pretty impressive
McDermott's 2017 coaching job hardly merited consideration for "Coach of the Year", and his "limited roster" was/is largely of his own making since he had significant input in determining which players were added, sent packing or kept kept over 2017 and into this season. You can jump on the McDermott bandwagon but even Dick Jauron, easily the Bills worst HC in the last three decades, once coached a team to a playoff berth (13-3), so I'll wait and see if he can replicate or improve on 2017 before I nominate him for the HOF.
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McDermott might not be the HC in two years, so I find it highly unlikely that the Bills would break a valid contract and possibly alienate business sponsors just to please him. If he's still HC when the contract comes up for renewal, his wishes will be taken in consideration but unless he brings a Lombardi to the Bills in the next 3 or 4 years, his preferences won't be the overriding fact in determining if TC stays at SJF or is held elsewhere.
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33 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:
The Bills were never leaving Rochester. It is too important to the viability of the franchise. This couldn’t be less of a story. There is no credit to be distributed here. The Bills have a contract and are abiding by it. Why is this a story?
Because too many posters on this MB don't put their brains in gear before hitting the <Submit Reply> button.
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5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:
You can be a smartass just to be a smartass I suppose. Or one can acknowledge that the current HC and GM got the team to the playoffs last year. And that even so they have acknowledged they have a long way to go still to build the team into what they want.
The statement I was commenting was one about "results". The "results" from the Bills first season under McDermott and less than a year under Beane were certainly not that good, and certainly not great, enough to merit more than a "nice job". Neither has demonstrated that he's a coaching or personnel genius. Major personnel changes usually happen when there's a change in ownership/management, not when a team has a modestly successful season.
5 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:I think what a lot of fans don't see is the culture change within the organization, all they see are the Ws and Ls and even that should be enough. Did anyone think after Watkins and Darby were dumped last year this was a 9-7 team? I had us at 6 wins and I wasn't sure that was realistic. We overachieved last year, but the Pegulas can see the plan that was mapped out by McDermott through his interviews coming to fruition. He has given them tangible results to justify everything he asked for when they brought him in. The same with Beane. He gets rid of two very popular players with the fans and says "next year I'll get us a QB" and he delivers.
And I believe firmly none of this was done with any involvement of Brandon at all. I also believe that McBeane had nothing to do with him being let go they neither wanted or cared what RB did it had no effect on their day to day work. Brandon brought this firing on himself.
Excuse me, but winning football games is, and should be, the first priority of every NFL football team, although I don't think that was necessarily true of the Bills during Ralph Wilson's ownership. Except for McDermott, his coaching staff, and in small part, Beane, all of the Bills non-player personnel responsible for the Bills 9-7 2017 season were hold overs from previous regimes or were hired at some point after the 2017 NFL draft and OTAs began.
McDermott introduced "culture change" into the team itself, but that wasn't what the OP was asking about; he was asking about the replacement of long-time employees who had been with organization over several coaching changes. McDermott's means of "culture change" has been getting rid of players who don't apparently fit into his "culture" despite the cost in talent. This isn't anything particularly new for the Bills, either; McDermott's "process" philosophy is simply a resurrection of Dick Jauron's "my way or the highway", and Beane's drafting of a questionable first round QB just to placate the fans echoes Dough Whaley's drafting of EJ Manuel in 2013. The only thing really separating Whaley and Beane is that Beane paid a whole lot more for Allen than Whaley did for Manuel.
1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:Spin however you may wish to...
1) winning team
2) playoff Berth
Rationalize they should’ve have lost, its as sorry a plight as trying to rationalize all those years of losing into moral victories.
Results are results. And that’s all that matters.
I'm not the one rationalizing "moral victories" and pretending that the 2017 Bills were so awesome that the HC and GM should be given carte blanche in running the team. I pointed out that not only were the Bills not that great, but they haven't done anything to fix their serious flaws on offense, which you are trying to now claim is "rationalizing all those years of losing". Sorry, dude, but you're the one doing the rationalizing over a 9-7 team that lucked into a playoff berth, and then promptly lost in the WC game. You can start crowing about "results" when the Bills beat NE in NE with Brady playing QB and when the Bills manage to win 10 games in the same season or -- be still my heart! -- win a playoff game!
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20 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:
Results give you credibility
Yes, a great 9-7 record highlighted by ...
- 2 games (2 losses) where the team failed to score a TD
- 6 games (3 losses) where the team failed to score more than 1 TD
- 7 games against playoff teams ... 3 wins, 4 losses
... and finally a playoff appearance that resulted in a 10-3 loss to Jacksonville should punch McDermott and Beane's tickets to the HOF especially since we all know that the offense is so much better today than it was at this time last year since the Bills have at long last found their franchise QB!
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On 4/27/2018 at 11:49 AM, jrober38 said:
Serious question - when was the last time a "boom or bust" QB boomed?
I can't find any who were drafted in the first round in the last 2 or 3 decades. Favre might be the only one during that entire time period but he was a second rounder. Was Jake Plummer considered a boon-or-bust project? He was a high second rounder back in '97 IIRC. Current 2nd round picks like Dalton, Garoppolo, and Carr and third round pick Wilson don't seem to be boom-or-busters, either. They seem to have been drafted about where they should have been for their measurables and their readiness for the NFL. Guys drafted on Day 3 can't really be busts because if they become even modestly successful backups, their teams are ahead of the game because nothing much was expected of them.
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"The Allen project" is only different because of your wishful thinking, OP. You may believe that since the Bills drafted him in the top ten, he MUST be better than the previous two failed project QBs the Bills wasted first round picks on, but I'll wait until he starts playing for real. Big, strong armed collegiate QBs who are supposedly smart are a dime a dozen. Competent NFL startng QBs are much scarcer.
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3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:
She will be responsible for none of that in her new role. If you were to draw an org chart it would be the owner at the top and then 2 lines, one to the GM and one the president. (Some teams have 3 lines with the coach reporting directly to the owner but we will us 2 for the sake of this conversation). Everything that falls underneath the GM would be football operations. There is a web down from there that is the pro and college sides.
The web underneath the president will be your CFO, CAO, CIO, CMO, CRO, COO, etc... it is your c-level executives. Their reports are comprised of VPs then directors then managers then coordinators, etc... There is no intersection or correlation between the president and the team performance. That has zero to do with their job. Kim’s role will be to oversee the business of the Buffalo Bills and Sabres. She will be in charge of ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, marketing, PR, stadium operations, IT, community relations, etc...That was the job that Russ Brandon held.
So to get an answer you need to pretend that it is a different industry. Let’s pretend that the Buffalo Bills were the Buffalo Airport. Do you believe that Kim Pegula is capable of being the president there? If your answer is “yes” than you are fine with her in this role. If your answer is “no” you probably aren’t. She is running a business though not a roster.
If your description of the Bills organization is correct -- and I have no reason to doubt it since you seem to have some knowledge of the Bills organization on a much more significant scale than most of us -- then there's even less reason for fans to be worried about how "qualified" Kim is to hire coaches or make trades or whatever it is that has gotten so many to carry on for so long and so loudly -- unless their real issue with having her as President is that having a woman as Bills president somehow offends their prejudices against women.
Jordan Mills second team All-Pro?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Exactly. I remember when McGahee was here, and the fans were on him because he "danced" at the LOS. Then he went to Baltimore and later Denver where they had good/decent OLs, he stopped "dancing" and the hit the holes ... BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY EXISTED!!!!