SoTier
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Just now, Fadingpain said:
A lot of that is from a bygone era, when Ralph Wilson owned the team.
You can't compare that to the Pegula era, at least as far as being cheap or not wanting to spend $$$ is concerned.
I absolutely can when the Bills have done the very same thing under the Pegulas as they did under Wilson. Pegula bought the team in 2013. All of the players on that list who were signed/drafted in and after 2011 were sent packing under Pegula's ownership ... and don't forget that Pegula was so impressed with Russ Brandon, the head honcho of the Bills since 2006, that he gave him control of the Sabres as well.
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1 hour ago, Batman1876 said:
I feel like a lot of people miss the fact that the team could not keep their talent they had. The cap would not allow it. If we had kept Cordy, tyrod and Darius we would have had about 21 million less to spend in free agency. Sign Sammy for 16 million and that’s 37 million in cap for those 4 guys. Now let’s look at the guys we signed Star gets 6.7, Trent 4.5, Davis 4.3, bodine 2.1 for a total of 17.6 million, 20 million less than we would have spent on the players we let go of add in Kelvin’s 8.5 and we still would have to find 11.5 million dollars, which means you have to sign league minimum guys to fill out your roster or cut other guys. Talent had to go, they opted to trade it over 12 months rather than let it trickle out the door over 2or 3years.
Bull manure! The Bills "could not keep their talent they had" because they never keep the talent they develop! That's "the process" that the Bills have followed since the beginning of the salary cap, although it became much worse since Russ Brandon took control of the team in 2006. The Bills have been the NFL's farm team for the entire 21st century. Among the notable players the Bills have sent packing rather than paying and who've gone on to become important starters on playoff teams are:
- Antowan Smith, RB, 1997 -- starter, 2001 NE Patriot Super Bowl champions
- Antoine Winfield, CB, 1999 - multiple Pro Bowls with Minnesota Vikings
- Nate Clements, CB, 2001 - Pro Bowler with Minnesota Vikings
- Willis McGahee, RB, 2003 - two time Pro Bowler with Baltimore and Denver
- Jabari Greer, CB, UDFA 2004 - starter with 2009 SB Champion New Orleans Saints
- Jason Peters, LT, UDFA 2005 - two time All Pro and nine time Pro Bowl LT with the Philadelphia Eagles
- Donte Whitner, SS, 2006 - two time Pro Bowler on San Francisco 49ers and Cleveland Browns; started on 49ers in 2012 Super Bowl
- Marshawn Lynch, RB, 2007 - two time All Pro RB with Seattle Seahawks, including the 2013 SB championship
- Paul Posluszny, MLB, 2007 - Pro Bowler, 7 year starter with Jacksonville Jaguars
- Jairus Byrd, FS, 2009 - starter with New Orleans Saints
- Andy Levitre, OG, 2009 - long time starter with 2016 SB runner-up Atlanta Falcons
- Nigel Bradham, LB, 2012 - starter with 2017 SB Champion Philadelphia Eagles
- Marcell Dareus, DT, 2011 - starter with 2017 AFC Conference Championship runner up Jacksonville Jaguars in 2018
- Chris Hogan, WR, UDFA 2011 by Miami, UFA signed to Bills PS in 2012 - starter for 2016 SB Champion NE Patriots
- Stephon Gilmore, CB, 2012 - Pro Bowler with Bills - starter for 2017 SB runner-up NE Patriots
- Cordy Glenn, LT, 2012 - starter with the Cincinnati Bengals
- Robert Woods, WR, 2013 - starter with LA Rams in 2017
- Marquise Goodwin, WR, 2013 - starter with SF 49ers in 2017
- Sammy Watkins, WR, 2014 - starter with LA Rams in 2017 and with KC Chiefs in 2018
- Preston Brown, MLB, 2014 - starter with the Cincinnati Bengals
- Ronald Darby, CB, 2015 - starter for 2017 SB Champion Philadelphia Eagles
I trust McDermott and Beane to continue this great Bills tradition since they made such an impressive start ...
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20 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:
Something that needs to be remembered here!
This organization decided, for a variety of reasons, that Allen was not ready and he should not start this year, or at least the early part of the year.
The fact that Peterman sucks and cannot be played doesn't change that fact! If Allen goes in, the organization looks like a bunch of idiots who have painted themselves in a corner, as the OP suggests.
If Peterman plays, they are basically conceding a tank year and in danger of losing the room.
They really can't win and they are going to look bad however this plays out.
It was a colossal mistake to get rid of AJ, as middling a talent as he is.
They're getting what they deserve for their incompetence. IMO, Beane was hired because he shared Russ Brandon's "money ball" philosophy. Saving some $$ seems the only rationale for trading away a veteran QB if the starter has had 2 NFL starts, and his backup is a rookie not deemed ready to face NFL defenses. He seems as incompetent at doing that as he's been in judging FA talent.
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30 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:
We paid McCarron a $4M bonus, and we get to eat it. 5th rounder.
Another great move by this clueless FO. He was a Bill for what, 3 months? Of course, trading for Corey Coleman was an even stupider move: he cost the Bills $3.5 million in dead cap money for a week or ten days.
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4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:
I'd wager many Bills fans would rather lose with Peterman than win with Kaep, so yes, the customer is factored into the equation.
If 17 years of no playoffs with 15 non-winning seasons didn't empty the Ralph, bringing in Kaepernick wouldn't do so either. Bills fans settle for a crap product, which is why the Bills don't bother to truly put winning before profits. Do you know why the Glory Years happened? Crowds of 20k fans in then Rich Stadium in the 1980s post-Chuck Knox happened. Since attendance was a significant revenue source for NFL teams back then the mostly empty stadium hit Wilson where it hurt: his profit. That's when he turned the team over to Polian, and, as they, "the rest is history".
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5 hours ago, Batman1876 said:
Darius saved us cap money last year and this year, despite the dead cap. His savings were used to sign Star its basically a push. Cordy and Tyrod saved us 15 mil in cap space this year. That accounts for the salary of Davis, Murphy, AJ and Bodine, meaning we only would have had space for the depth guys we signed. This team is probably better with Darius Tyrod and Glenn but its still not a good team with them. I'll take the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th we got for those players to build for the future over having those three guys make our terrible team a little better.
Building for the future? ROTFLMAO. They spent the existing talent on the team to collect draft capital to get a QB and LB ... and put a team with expansion-team level talent around them. It's going to take another 3 plus years to even get back to the talent they had when McDermott was hired if they hit on most of their draft picks and FAs, and from what McDermott/Beane have done so far, that's not going to happen.
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36 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:
Yes I totally agree. But did they really underestimate the OL? Or were there just not many good options out there? People are forgetting that Beane didn’t have the cap flexibility to sign players like Nate Solder or Andrew Norwell to huge deals.
I guess you could say that they could have drafted some linemen. But remember the #1 priority in the draft was QB, the second was defense. There were a lot of needs on this and you can’t all address them at once - especially given the cap situation. Whether it was OL, LB, WR or whatever other position it’s impossible to fix everything in a year. This is why I am certain that Beane and McDermott were privately bracing for an off year given the roster they have.
Nate Solder is a LT. They didn't need him because LT was the only OL position where the Bills actually had depth with Cordy Glenn healthy, Dion Dawkins looking good as a rookie, and Seantrel Henderson a solid backup. McDermott/Beane fixed that in short ordper. They let Henderson walk away in FA to the Texans for whom he became their starting LT. Then they traded away Cordy Glenn, incurring a $9.6 million cap hit. Glenn is Cinci's starting LT.
If the Bills had kept Dareus so that they wouldn't have to sign Star, they would have something like $7 million extra to spend on FAs -- like maybe re-signing EJ Gaines rather than spending on Vontae Davis and Phillip Gaines. If they had kept Taylor, they wouldn't have had to sign AJ McCarron ... and face having Nate Peterman wasting a roster spot ... and saved $9.7 million in dead cap space for Taylor and McCarron.
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43 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:
That's called putting your plan in place. They got rid of a malcontent in Dareus who was not playing to a level anywhere near where his contract said he should. They traded Darby and Watkins. Watkins I disagreed with but time shows he has not done much since he left. Darby one could argue they should have kept, but there was just an article in si.com about how they expect he won't get resigned by the Eagles.
They knew they'd take a cap hit this year. One can argue about whether they could have restructured contracts or something else, but they decided to rip the band aid off rather than slowly pull on it. The success or failure of that plan will be dictated by how they use the excess cap dollars they'll have next year.
McDermott is a "my way or the highway" HC. Dareus was not a "malcontent" in the locker room. He didn't fit in with whatever McDermott wanted in his players, so McDermott wanted him gone without regard to the consequences for the team on the field or for the cap. The same with the Watkins trade; again a player was sent packing because he didn't "fit" the HC's mold, leaving the Bills without any speed or reliabilty among the WRs.
That's not having a plan, that's accommodating the HC's my-way-or-the-highway mentality.
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4 minutes ago, Mickey said:
"low cost short term solution" is the philosophical cancer at the heart of this franchise and way too many of its fans.
Even a change of ownership can't change that mentality. It's gotta be something in the air.
4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:I agree about the O line. The question is , given where they were with cap space, etc, what could they have done to improve it more? I would have liked to see another draft pick spent there, but as far as FAs they simply didn't have the cash to spend. and if you read stuff from writers around the league, there is simply a dearth of good O linemen in the league right now. So it comes down to coaching what you have, and Castillo isn't exactly drawing comparisons to Mouse at this point.
Once again, the Bills are in cap trouble because they decided to get rid of decent players because they simply didn't fit in with the Bills short-term plans without regard to how doing so would impact the cap or the results on the field. That's called "incompetence". It's what you get when you hire a first time HC and give him control over player personnel, and then hire a first time GM without player evaluation/management experience. That's also called "incompetence".
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2 hours ago, CamboBill said:
We need a one year starter to absorb Snaps until we can create a better situation for Allen Next year. A one year starter return would be exactly what Kaep needs to get back in the league and would give the Bills time and flexibility to spot Allen in places he can succeed.
I would be all in on Kaep but the F/O wankers would never court such "controversy"as offending some right wingers.
We need to get someone though. Preferably someone who can run for their lives
I think that's because the right wingers they'd be offending would be their fellow owners and execs. As history shows, the Bills don't really care if they offend their fanbase because they've done that repeatedly with the crap product they repeatedly have put on the field over the decades.
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7 hours ago, Bob in STL said:
Don’t even think about replacing .them. We have to stop the revolving door. It was one game.
Yeah, leaving an incompetent HC/GM combo in place seems like the prescription for building the next NFL winning dynasty.
/sarcasm off
7 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:Terry talks a lot to former NFL GM’s and Executives who stress patience. They also know they can’t keep hiring and firing coaches/GM’s. Terry essentially gave the keys to the kingdom to McDermott and he delivered a playoff berth in his first year as HC. He is prepared to give McDermott all 5 years. I’ll bet you anything he sees the end of the contract
Another advocate for keeping an incompetent HC/GM combo in the name of "continuity". What's the f'ing point? Further cementing the Bills' reputation for being a dysfunctional organization????
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1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:
Van Pelt is kind of an expert on worst in the league type of things. The company he works for is the worst in their league, and the show he hosts is abysmal. Glass house there Scott.
Dissing SVP doesn't change the fact that the Bills sucked, and don't look like they'll improve any time soon.
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21 minutes ago, The_Dude said:
McDermott is Jauron Jr.
I've been saying this since last season. Like Jauron, his stoicism is a positive trait in the eyes of true believers because it masks his cluelessness about offensive football.
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5 hours ago, arcane said:
I didn't watch most of that game, but Tyrod lost 47-10 to the Saints last year at home and threw for 56 yards
The problem wasn't moving on from tyrod, it was doing so in a summer where so many QBs changed hands but winding up using Peterman
The problem is McDermott and Beane being incompetent to have control of personnel matters. I have no problem with McDermott as coach, but to give a first time NFL HC control over player personnel is stupid (ask Philly about Chip Kelly), and then hiring a first time GM without a background in pro personnel evaluation and/or management to work with said HC is a prescription for the disaster we saw yesterday .. . and likely to see next week and the week after since the Chargers are similar in ability to Baltimore, and the Vikings are a serious Super Bowl contender with a nasty D.
5 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:Season ain't over yet, McD will make adjustments
He can't conjure a better OL, a sure-handed WR corps, and a competent QB out of thin air. I didn't say "better than Peterman" because that's easy although that wouldn't mean he could play even minimally well, say on a level with Trent Edwards.
3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:And the fact that basically 3 Head Coaches fell out with him. That eventually has to come down to him in some regard. But generally you and I are on the same page on Whaley. I look at that 2015 roster.... and then I look at this. No comparison.
Beane better hope Allen and Edmunds are stars and then that he uses his capital next year more effectively. Because as much as Terry likes this regime he won't stand for many more embarrassments like last night.
Whaley's problems with HCs is why he's no longer the Bills GM more than anything IMO. That's on the Bills ownership, however, for the way they organized the team's power structure. Two about equal power centers in the same organization (in the Bills' case, that would be GM and HC) is a prescription for conflict.
I'm skeptical that the Bills are going to be able to avoid several more embarrassments no matter how good Allen and Edmunds may play this season.
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17 minutes ago, BillsVet said:
Whaley wasn't fired because the team was a playoff contender. He was fired because he was spending like a drunken sailor and bet the farm on guys that weren't committed. They topped out at 8-8 essentially on his watch.
But McBeane haven't built much of anything in 2 off-seasons, aside from trade up 4 times in 2 drafts and have little depth. Their UFA decisions aside from Hyde and Poyer are abysmal and they've placed too much emphasis on people who buy into the system than individual talent.
Coach McD better get more flexible or he'll be processing his way out of town by the end of 2019.
Whaley was fired because he lost the power struggle with McDermott that developed as the team was preparing for the draft. My guess is it was a decision by the owners because McDermott was picked by them while Whaley was not only Brandon's guy but he had also been involved in a power struggle with Doug Marrone in 2014 which may have led to Marrone leaving after that season.
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4 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:
As bad as they looked today, the Bills will win next week. Chargers are not that good. Bosa will not be 100% if he even plays. West coast team playing early game on the East coast. Take it to the bank. Allen will start and be ok. Shady will have a monster game as will Clay/Croom.
Bills win 24-13
Didn't all the McDermott/Beane fanboys say pretty much the same thing about the Ravens?
IMO, it doesn't matter if the Chargers aren't that good because the Bills definitely ARE THAT BAD.
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27 minutes ago, Klaista2k said:
AJ Mccarron - Disappointment and then traded away for a 5th.
Vontae Davis - Benched
Trent Murphy - Looks like damaged goods
Star Louteleli - 50 million really? Looks like a terrible signing.
K. Benjamin - Has been a huge disappointment. Can see why Carolina got rid of him.
Russell Bodine - Another bad signing.
These all look like really bad signings.
Is Beane just a bad talent evaluator or what?
What about Matthews and Phillip Gaines? Matthews sucked last year, and Phillip Gaines isn't nearly as good as EJ Gaines whom the Bills didn't re-sign.
17 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:The way that I see it is like this... out of the names you mentioned the only FA signing you can pin on Beane are Star and maybe Trent Murphy. And the jury is still out on both of those guys.
Guys like Bodine, Davis, and McCarron were all low-risk/high reward situations. They were not Day 1 or even Day 2 Free agents. They signed them as reasonable prices. It’s not like they broke the bank.
The Bills probably never got the return on Benjamin. Last season it was a mix of injuries and a QB in Tyrod who doesn’t throw WR’s open and is reluctant to throw contested passes. Today’s effort was abysmal. Still on paper the 3rd round pick they gave up seemed reasonable. Oh and they did break that playoff streak, so you. So you can argue the trade was justified.
How the hell can you claim that bottom feeder veteran FAs are "low-risk/high reward situations"? They're known quantities. They're cheap because they're lousy!!!!
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No team would deliberately look this bad this early in the season ... or any time in the season.
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4 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:
What makes you think their scouts are bad?
Teams don't decide to obtain players without input from their scouting departments -- or they probably shouldn't.
Player evaluation, both for college players and veterans, depends upon good scouting, and the Bills haven't been very so far that good with McDermott and Beane calling personnel shots. They hit on White and probably on Dawkins, but Jones looks like a bust in the making. The rest of the 2017 draft class hasn't shown much. It's really too early to judge the 2018 draft class but the 2018 FA signees are almost all terrible.
Under Whaley, the Bills continually found success with bargain FA signings and trades as well as with draft picks outside the first round, which says that the Bills had a pretty good scouting department at the time.
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6 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:
So you’d rather have those guys than Edmunds?
Edmunds hasn't proven squat yet, but a good GM can find good and even great players outside of the first round. Maybe the Bills need better scouts. In fact, I'd say, that they definitely need better scouts.
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52 minutes ago, Jasovon said:
While the talent level is clearly not there, the lack of discipline is pure coaching. I agree not a good showing.
Holding penalties and jumping off-sides on both sides of the ball are often the result of players being overmatched and trying not to get beat.
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32 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:
None of this bothers me as long as Allen plays this year and shows signs of being a real honest to goodness franchise QB. If that happens, I am confident we will continue to improve and be comepetetive in the next 3-4 years.
If Allen doesn’t play or does not flash the ability I believe he has... we are in trouble...
How is Allen supposed to show "signs of being a real honest to goodness franchise QB" when he's playing behind a crap-arsed OL and throwing to slow, stone-handed receivers???? McDermott and Beane have practically guaranteed that Allen is going to suck this season -- and probably into the future because I doubt that the Bills will be able to fix both problems, not with all the other holes that McDermott and Beane have created.
13 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:He's not really flourishing. He's part of a DL rotation. It's not like he's an All-Pro. great hyperbole though
He stopped a Giants' drive by sacking Eli and forcing a 4th down when the Giants seemed to be building some momentum on offense. How many sacks did Star have today?
9 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:So so you want all of them back? Live in perennial .500 football? Go ahead.
Damn right. Beats the crap out of perennial .125 - .1875 football. Dareus > Star. Taylor > Peterman. Glenn > Dawkins. Dawkins could have then been moved to RT, giving the Bills a much better OL than they have now.
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33 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:
You seem to forget the Bills are in cap jail. Due largely to Dareus contract.
Boo hoo! Whose fault is that except the current HC and GM who are incompetent in handling personnel matters? Maybe McDermott and Beane should have considered the dead cap implications of getting rid of Dareus ($13.6 million) before they gave him away to the Jags. He wasn't a locker room cancer; Frazier and McDermott failed to get the best out of him, although he seems to be flourishing again in the Jags DL rotation under Marrone. A good HC figures out how to get the best out of the very talented players on his roster, even if they don't necessarily get along well. The Bills also should have considered the cap implications of trading away Taylor ($7.6 million) and Glenn ($9.6 million).
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57 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:
The process includes paying 47 million dollars to guys who are not here and that we’re not getting it done, so they get a good draft pick and start next year with 60 million to spend in free agency.
This season was always going to be brutal. If you expected something else, I applaud your optimism.
Ah, the "wait 'til next year" line! That's what "trust the process" means from the Bills coaching staff and FO, just as it always has. Bills fans have been "trusting the process" for this entire century and all they've gotten for being true believers is 3 9-7 seasons, 1 playoff appearance, an embarrassing opening day loss in 2018, and another promise of the team being "better" next year.
Who are we competing with for the #1 overall pick?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
The Browns went 0-16 last year, so it would seem that the Bills could only tie for "worst team in 10 years" but with the sharp minds of McDermott and Beane "being on the same page", I'm sure they'll manage to surpass even the hapless Brownies.