SoTier
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3 hours ago, Greybeard said:
They also managed to get the ex-Bills receivers who couldn't get open in Buffalo (sarc). Although I am not sure if this kills your point or makes it.?
They also went out and signed Whitworth, Cinci's long time LT, in FA. IOW, the Rams gave Goff better protection and better targets. The improved OL enabled Gurley to run wild. This year they added more talent on both sides of the ball, which is key, because even great offensive teams can't depend on putting up 30 or 40 points a game.
2 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:Like Joe Torre with the Yankees.
Immense talent and personalities.
Basically a high priced babysitter.
In today's NFL, between the salary cap and high player salaries, successful HCs coaches need to be exactly that because teams that want to win consistently can't afford to get rid of a talented DT and incurr a $13+ million dead cap hit just because he and the HC or his DC don't see eye to eye.
4 minutes ago, blacklabel said:The people that consistently try to run every single coach out of town within one or two seasons... what's your alternative? Firing and hiring new regimes every season is 100% a surefire way to ensure your team will never be a contender. And I'd bet that if your dream coach was hired and he went out and lost a game you'd be screaming for his dismissal as well. It's constant no-win situations with some of you.
Make a good hire in the first place works for me. That's where there needs to be some kind of "process". The Bills have never really done that, and the Pegulas aren't any better than Wilson in that regard.
My guess is that Terry Pegula doesn't hire key personnel for his enterprises simply on a whim like he did Rex Ryan. I also doubt he turns over full control of any of his enterprises/projects to people who've never held similar jobs before like he did with McDermott and Beane.
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1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:
Wow, that is a monumental statement ST.
It might even be true but I gotta admit, the thought of being worse than Jauron made me burst out laughing.
Jauron was an incompetent game day coach, and McDermott is infinitely better. However, Jauron was not nearly as ruthless as McDermott has been in getting rid of players to bring in "his guys". It wasn't until 2009 that Jauron succeeded in gutting the team. It's barely been a year and a half since McDermott was hired, and the team is as talentless, perhaps even more so, than Jauron's 2009 roster. I'd say that makes McDermott worse than Jauron.
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8 hours ago, BillsVet said:
And without a GM to get him HOF and Pro Bowl talent...so far.
One thing Marv did was manage the enormous personalities in the locker room. I'm not sure McCoach is close to that either.
I have no problem with McDermott as a HC. I would prefer him to be less conservative myself but I think he's capable of getting the most out of the talent he's got. In that he's probably significantly better than Levy. I think that if he had had the teams that Levy had, he'd have brought at least one Lombardi to Buffalo.
However, giving him control of personnel has already proven disastrous. He absolutely seems unwilling to tolerate players who don't fit his narrow mold, as the trading of Watkins and Dareus last season demonstrated. Both trades had serious negative consequences for the team on the field in 2017, and the Dareus trade saddled the 2018 team with a huge cap hit as well as necessitating a major investment in a new DT that prevented the Bills from addressing other needs in FA. Beane's handling of the personnel e v a l and acquisition, even in his short tenure, is seriously suspect. The result is that in less than about a year and a half, McDermott and Beane have taken a middle of the pack roster in need of upgrades and turned it into an expansion-team level roster that resembles Swiss cheese. In this respect, McDermott is worse than even Dick Jauron who took about 3 seasons to gut the Bills roster.
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On 9/11/2018 at 1:49 PM, Thurman#1 said:
Getting a QB high was an absolute necessity. Far from making no sense, it was the only move that did make any sense, except maybe bringing in Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.
Calling it a waste is missing the point. There are very very few ways to bring in a guy with a legitimate shot at being a franchise guy. When you have one of those chances you have to go for it even if it's expensive. They had to get a guy who might grow to become the franchise QB we've needed for so long. Unless they wanted our run of prolonged mediocrity/badness to continue.
And yeah, OLs take time to develop. So do QBs. But it's a hell of a lot easier to draft a good OL even if you're winning than it is to draft a good
QB.And yes, moving up delayed filling the holes on the roster.
It's worth it. Same as in house construction, building a good strong, stable foundation delays the building of the walls and the installation of the plumbing and everything else, really. But it's necessary to build that strong foundation regardless of the delay. Same thing here. It's necessary to bring in a legitimate potential QB because it's almost impossible to get one when you have a good enough roster elsewhere to consistently win eight or nine games. You never get the chance to draft a potential franchise guy. This is the only way to get it done, and also the smart way.
If we're rebuilding as you say (I'm not sure I agree, but put that aside), then you have to keep understanding what a rebuild is. It's not something you do if you want to have a great chance to win the year you trade up and draft your QB. You are sacrificing the short term for the long term. Which is a great idea if the long term is very successful, and true rebuilds increase the chances of extreme success.
What was your prediction for the year? Did you think we'd win eight or nine or ten games? People who predicted a lot of wins this year weren't quite understanding how long it takes to build consistent success when you're switching schemes and the regime before you put you in awful salary cap shape.
If McDermott really felt that getting a QB was an "absolute necessity", why didn't he grab Mahomes or Watson in 2017 when the Bills had the 10th overall pick? Having won the power struggle with Whaley, he ran the 2017 draft, and he traded back to take a DB and get an extra first rounder in 2018, which is nice but a team doesn't build a winning team by missing opportunities, especially when obtaining a better QB is an "absolutely necessity", and McDermott missed a big opportunity.
Of course, taking Mahomes or Watson would have eliminated McDermott/Beanes favorite excuse that they had to trade away current talent in order to move up to draft a QB.
2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:Why because McD said so? Seems Goodwin and Woods culture is fine in their nee teams? What about Sammy seems there is no issue in locker room in KC.
Ooo how is Gilmore fitting in the Patriot way?
they were arrogant and caused this talent void and dead cap issue and I find it weird the amount of fans giving them a pass on what THEY CREATED
AMEN!!!!
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1 hour ago, jletha said:
At least we did something. And he knows some of the concepts since he went through camp but if he couldnt beat out anyone on the roster then, what does that say for him?
It says that at least he has potential to get better because he's so raw and a rookie. That's better than Ducasse, Bodine or Newhouse.
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7 hours ago, Augie said:
M debating nothing, just stating that Mack is a far superior player than Peters ever was, despite Peters being a stud.
Peters is a two time All Pro and a nine time Pro Bowler who has come back twice from devastating injuries (Achilles and ACL). In his prime, he was acknowledged as the best LT in the NFL, and even at the end of his career, he's still embarrassingly better than any OLer the Bills have ever had before or since. He's one of the greatest LTs in the NFL since the merger.
Mack's a newbie compared to Peters. When his career's finished, we'll see how he compares to the greatest DEs in the NFL since 1970.
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6 hours ago, Figster said:
Staying with Tyrod Taylor would have been ultra conservative vs the player turnover and gamble on Allen IMO.
Firing our OC and bringing in Daboll also doesn't strike me as ultra conservative.
This reply is disingenous, and it hardly proves that McDermott isn't ultra-conservative.
The Bills had many other options for a veteran QB than simply keeping Taylor or trading Taylor and going with Peterman. McDermott and Beane chose to go with Peterman rather than with Taylor, McCarron or another veteran QB.
The same with the OC options. The choice wasn't just keep Dennison or go with Daboll. There were numerous OC candidates with much better credentials -- ie, real success as NFL OCs -- than Daboll.
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On 9/9/2018 at 11:34 PM, BuffaloRush said:
The one thing I can’t believe is the the dramatic, over-the-Top, extreme, comically sad, romanticizing Of Bills fans for the past. Today’s here are some of the legit takes that came from this board:
- We never should have fired Doug Whaley
- We never should have traded Sammy Watkins
- We should have let Tyrod
- We never should have let Fitzpatrick walk 6 years ago
- I wish we kept Chan Gailey, he knew how to run an offense
- Why did we let Robert Woods walk?
Its ridiculous! These comments are not contradictory to the sentiments of the past, they are contradictory to sentiments from
yeaterday. Go back to 2012, people complained about Fitz and his “noodle arm” and the INT’s late in the game that sealed the loss. People applauded the Bills for trading Sammy for a 2nd after he he proved he wasn’t he game breaker that many were hoping for. And some people applauded the firing of Doug Whaley whose record as GM speaks for itself, though some also defended him as Whaley is the most polarizing figure in Bills history.
And its not just this game. Any time something goes wrong for the Bills or anytime a former Bills player or coach achieves a moderate amount of success it’s always “oh I wish we still Mike Gilislee” or “why didn’t we resign Chris Hogan,” or “I wish Doug Whaley was still the GM.”
This is my friends of romanticism. Kind of like the old, overweight 50 year dude who sits in his messy studio apartment on Electric Avenue in Lackawanna and pines to back to the days when he was muscular and handsome and dating his beautiful red-haired old high-school sweetheart. “Oh I wish I never dumped Lucy to play the field. She was my one, true love. I never should have broken up with her.” And in case your wondering, no that 50 year old is not me.
But this emotional romanticism and looking back at the past through rose-colored glasses needs to stop. It’s as useless and sad as that 50 year-old pining for Lucy (again, not me). Point is grow up and go Bills!
Facts:
- Marcell Dareus started for the Jacksonville Jaguars on Sunday.
- Stephon Gilmore started for the NE Patriots in the last SB. He had an INT for the Pats against the Texans on Sunday.
- Cordy Glenn is now Cincinnati's starting LT.
- Nigel Bradham was a starter for the SB Champions Philadelphia Eagles in 2017.
- Woods caught 56 passes for 781 yards and 5 TDs in 12 games with the LA Rams in 2017. He caught 3 passes for 37 yards in his first start for the Rams in 2018.
- Marquise Goodwin caught 56 passes for 962 yards and 2 TDs in 2017 for San Francisco.
- Sammy Watkins caught 39 passes for 593 yards and 8 TDs for the LA Rams in 2017. He caught 3 passes for 21 yards in his first start with the 2018 KC Chiefs.
- Preston Brown is the starting MLB for the Bengals in 2018.
- Ronald Darby started for SB Champions Philadelphia Eagles in the 2017 Super Bowl.
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8 hours ago, Jaraxxus said:
This is why the franchise can’t have a quick trigger. They’ve already shown to be pretty adept at drafting.
^^
6 hours ago, Jaraxxus said:Of note, those 5 are the five best. There’s guys like Milano and maybe Teller that could appear on that list as well. They’re proving more effective in the draft than Whaley.
^^
1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:Potential franchise QB and leader of their D. Starting LT. Shut down corner (whatever that means). Starting DT next year. Slot CB this year. Good return guy in Ray Ray. Potential starting G in Teller.
Yeah, not bad.
Adept at drafting? White is a nice pick, and Dawkins may become a good LT but nobody else from the 2017 draft is even promising. Milano is an undersized LB who wouldn't be a starter on many other NFL rosters ... but spending 2 picks to get Zay Jones and wasting a fifth round pick on Peterman makes the 2017 draft look pretty crappy already even though it's still too early to judge 2017.
Since Allen, Edmunds, Phillips, and Johnson have played in exactly 1 NFL game, nobody knows how good -- or bad -- they'll turn out to be. As for Teller, the supposed "potential starting guard," he wasn't even active for the game.
When these guys have been in the league for 3 years or so, then you can fairly judge if a draft is good, bad or indifferent. Of course, part of judging a HC/GM's drafting prowess is how decisions. For instance, many Bills fans crucify Whaley for trading up in 2014 to get Sammy Watkins when he could have taken another top WR like OBJ or Jarvis Landry who were both available at the Bills original spot, but they conveniently ignore that trading up to get Jones when better prospects like JuJu Smith-Schuster would have been available may be even worse if Jones turns out to be a bust.
Moreover, evaluation of McDermott/Beane's drafting prowess will not only be judged by whether or not Allen develops into a franchise QB, but it also upon how good Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, and Josh Rosen -- all QBs McDermott/Beane could have taken instead of Allen -- turn out compared to Allen.
30 minutes ago, Augie said:Why is it the positive people do it with a sense of hope a general kindness? No hate against those with differing opinions. The HATERS bring some serious hate. I’d rather read a well developed opinion of why the long term plan is impossibly doomed. That is what they are selling, but I think it’s mostly in reaction to short term results. Sure, Sunday was a horrific mess. Over-reacting is easy, and what some people live for. I hope the rest of their lives are less miserable. Might I suggest they just go away to feel better until they can just jump back on the bandwagon? (Oh boy, that will bring the predictable responses from the usual suspects!)
I think the long term view is the way to go, and I’m OK with that.
^^
28 minutes ago, Augie said:May I politely suggest we don’t feed the trolls?
Pot, meet Kettle. Calling people who dare to disagree with your views "trolls" is hardly "a general kindness". In fact, the OP has been repeatedly attacked, insulted, and mocked by posters who disagree with him/her in this thread while only 2 or 3 "positive" posters actually attempted to refute what he had to say in his original post.
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16 hours ago, Batman1876 said:
That is how you win unless you have a good QB. If Allen is good you'll stop hearing it.
The Minnesota Vikings would beg to differ. Check out their record since 2000 ... and then see who was under center for them. Except for bringing in Favre for a season or two at the end of his career, their QBs have mostly been mediocre. Last year, they were a game short of going to the Super Bowl with backup Case Keenum as their QB.
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18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:
The Jets will make a strong push for one of the WCs in the AFC.
They were impressive. If they continue to play like that, the Bills opportunities to even smell a win this season have shrunk from 6 (Indy, Titans, Jets, Miami) to 4.
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16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:
As always you completely miss the point. I am asking what motivates those who consistently post negatives about the team. What does that do to make them feel better? I sincerely don't get that attitude, and would sincerely like to know what the rationale is for such behavior.
Am I saying people should be banned? No. Am I saying one should never be negative? No. I am saying that you should actually have some basis for it. Note my OP was before the first game. Do they deserve criticism for the performance Sunday? Of course. I said on this very site that I have watched games since 1960 and I can't remember a worse performance.
But here's an example of what I mean. Before the season starts, before a pass gets thrown, how many people here were saying Allen is a bust? What is the purpose of that? What exactly do posters like that achieve, and what motivates that? Any rational thought process would tell you no one has any idea just yet, but folks like that for some reason get their jollies out of spewing that kind of negativity.
I have no problem with negativity when warranted, as after the debacle on Sunday. I do wonder about those who are negative just to be negative, and I'd love to see an explanation..
My guess is that while you may not be a troll, this entire thread is certainly a troll thread. The "debacle on Sunday" wasn't a fluke, and pretending it was is disingenuous.
And FYI, you aren't going to shame or intimidate me into silence about how McDermott and Beane have screwed the pooch over these past two years.
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5 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:
Sam Darnold has chubby cheeks
Josh Allen has chubby cheeks
Air go, Sam Darnold and Josh Allen are similar QB’s
It's not "air go", it's "ergo".
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3 hours ago, ganesh said:
We knew our OL was going to take a beating after the departure of Incognito, Wood and Glenn. The problem was that we did not address it in FA (with all that dead cap money) and went with our last years backups as the starters. The Pre-season showed that those guys (Ducasse, Miller, Groy) are not ready to become starters. This team cannot fix everything in one season. They chose to fix the defense this year by drafting Edmunds, Phillip and signing Lotulelei. Hopefully they will address the OL next year. The problem is one never gets a good starting OL in FA. They are simply a rare breed.
"Not ready to become starters?" Seriously??? Ducasse has been in the league for 9 years and sucked all those years. Bodine has been in the league for 5 years and sucked all those years, despite being the starter in Cinci. He couldn't even beat out career backup, Ryan Groy. Marshall Newhouse has been in the league for 8 years and sucked all those years.
As for "fixing the defense", I might agree if the defense had bothered to show up on Sunday.
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7 hours ago, RyanC883 said:
they make bad trades, but they have drafted well.
PFF gave him one of the highest grades for rookie tackles/guards.
No, they do not draft well. They gamble on high risk prospects and often trade up to get them which is a waste draft capital.
PFF's algorithm for rating OLs and OLers is unreliable at best. If Teller was that good, he wouldn't have been around at the end of the fifth round where they took him which is Day Three of the draft. If he was that good, he'd have been a Day Two pick.
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Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:
Are the Raiders supposed to be doing that with Donald and Suh patrolling the middle?
Beast Mode is just doing what Beast Mode does.
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16 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:
So you disagree with the McBeane approach. That’s a reasonable opinion. I’m curious if you keep all the guys they inherited how do you build for the future? Or do you think they had a championship roster that just needed to be used better.
If you have a house that needs a new roof and a new front porch but is otherwise sound, do you tear it down or do you fix what needs fixing because your budget is limited? Apparently, McDermott and Beane would tear down the house and live in an old RV in the driveway while waiting to win the lottery after spending the repair budget on the RV and lottery tix.
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1 minute ago, COTC said:
So many holes. We really need a new coach and gm.
This looks like another start of a very long playoff drought because of overzealous gm who need “their” players.
This is what happens when insecurity replaces judgement in turning over a roster.
I agree whole-heartedly, except that it's not insecurity overcoming judgement. McDermott and Beane are simply incompetent at running a football team. If McDermott stuck to coaching the team, he'd be okay, but both he and Beane are clueless when it comes to talent evaluation and cap management, so allowing them control over personnel and cap management is a prescription for epic fail.
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1 minute ago, dayman said:
We may be the worst team in 10 years.
The Browns went 0-16 last year, so it would seem that the Bills could only tie for "worst team in 10 years" but with the sharp minds of McDermott and Beane "being on the same page", I'm sure they'll manage to surpass even the hapless Brownies.
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Just now, Fadingpain said:
A lot of that is from a bygone era, when Ralph Wilson owned the team.
You can't compare that to the Pegula era, at least as far as being cheap or not wanting to spend $$$ is concerned.
I absolutely can when the Bills have done the very same thing under the Pegulas as they did under Wilson. Pegula bought the team in 2013. All of the players on that list who were signed/drafted in and after 2011 were sent packing under Pegula's ownership ... and don't forget that Pegula was so impressed with Russ Brandon, the head honcho of the Bills since 2006, that he gave him control of the Sabres as well.
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1 hour ago, Batman1876 said:
I feel like a lot of people miss the fact that the team could not keep their talent they had. The cap would not allow it. If we had kept Cordy, tyrod and Darius we would have had about 21 million less to spend in free agency. Sign Sammy for 16 million and that’s 37 million in cap for those 4 guys. Now let’s look at the guys we signed Star gets 6.7, Trent 4.5, Davis 4.3, bodine 2.1 for a total of 17.6 million, 20 million less than we would have spent on the players we let go of add in Kelvin’s 8.5 and we still would have to find 11.5 million dollars, which means you have to sign league minimum guys to fill out your roster or cut other guys. Talent had to go, they opted to trade it over 12 months rather than let it trickle out the door over 2or 3years.
Bull manure! The Bills "could not keep their talent they had" because they never keep the talent they develop! That's "the process" that the Bills have followed since the beginning of the salary cap, although it became much worse since Russ Brandon took control of the team in 2006. The Bills have been the NFL's farm team for the entire 21st century. Among the notable players the Bills have sent packing rather than paying and who've gone on to become important starters on playoff teams are:
- Antowan Smith, RB, 1997 -- starter, 2001 NE Patriot Super Bowl champions
- Antoine Winfield, CB, 1999 - multiple Pro Bowls with Minnesota Vikings
- Nate Clements, CB, 2001 - Pro Bowler with Minnesota Vikings
- Willis McGahee, RB, 2003 - two time Pro Bowler with Baltimore and Denver
- Jabari Greer, CB, UDFA 2004 - starter with 2009 SB Champion New Orleans Saints
- Jason Peters, LT, UDFA 2005 - two time All Pro and nine time Pro Bowl LT with the Philadelphia Eagles
- Donte Whitner, SS, 2006 - two time Pro Bowler on San Francisco 49ers and Cleveland Browns; started on 49ers in 2012 Super Bowl
- Marshawn Lynch, RB, 2007 - two time All Pro RB with Seattle Seahawks, including the 2013 SB championship
- Paul Posluszny, MLB, 2007 - Pro Bowler, 7 year starter with Jacksonville Jaguars
- Jairus Byrd, FS, 2009 - starter with New Orleans Saints
- Andy Levitre, OG, 2009 - long time starter with 2016 SB runner-up Atlanta Falcons
- Nigel Bradham, LB, 2012 - starter with 2017 SB Champion Philadelphia Eagles
- Marcell Dareus, DT, 2011 - starter with 2017 AFC Conference Championship runner up Jacksonville Jaguars in 2018
- Chris Hogan, WR, UDFA 2011 by Miami, UFA signed to Bills PS in 2012 - starter for 2016 SB Champion NE Patriots
- Stephon Gilmore, CB, 2012 - Pro Bowler with Bills - starter for 2017 SB runner-up NE Patriots
- Cordy Glenn, LT, 2012 - starter with the Cincinnati Bengals
- Robert Woods, WR, 2013 - starter with LA Rams in 2017
- Marquise Goodwin, WR, 2013 - starter with SF 49ers in 2017
- Sammy Watkins, WR, 2014 - starter with LA Rams in 2017 and with KC Chiefs in 2018
- Preston Brown, MLB, 2014 - starter with the Cincinnati Bengals
- Ronald Darby, CB, 2015 - starter for 2017 SB Champion Philadelphia Eagles
I trust McDermott and Beane to continue this great Bills tradition since they made such an impressive start ...
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20 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:
Something that needs to be remembered here!
This organization decided, for a variety of reasons, that Allen was not ready and he should not start this year, or at least the early part of the year.
The fact that Peterman sucks and cannot be played doesn't change that fact! If Allen goes in, the organization looks like a bunch of idiots who have painted themselves in a corner, as the OP suggests.
If Peterman plays, they are basically conceding a tank year and in danger of losing the room.
They really can't win and they are going to look bad however this plays out.
It was a colossal mistake to get rid of AJ, as middling a talent as he is.
They're getting what they deserve for their incompetence. IMO, Beane was hired because he shared Russ Brandon's "money ball" philosophy. Saving some $$ seems the only rationale for trading away a veteran QB if the starter has had 2 NFL starts, and his backup is a rookie not deemed ready to face NFL defenses. He seems as incompetent at doing that as he's been in judging FA talent.
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30 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:
We paid McCarron a $4M bonus, and we get to eat it. 5th rounder.
Another great move by this clueless FO. He was a Bill for what, 3 months? Of course, trading for Corey Coleman was an even stupider move: he cost the Bills $3.5 million in dead cap money for a week or ten days.
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4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:
I'd wager many Bills fans would rather lose with Peterman than win with Kaep, so yes, the customer is factored into the equation.
If 17 years of no playoffs with 15 non-winning seasons didn't empty the Ralph, bringing in Kaepernick wouldn't do so either. Bills fans settle for a crap product, which is why the Bills don't bother to truly put winning before profits. Do you know why the Glory Years happened? Crowds of 20k fans in then Rich Stadium in the 1980s post-Chuck Knox happened. Since attendance was a significant revenue source for NFL teams back then the mostly empty stadium hit Wilson where it hurt: his profit. That's when he turned the team over to Polian, and, as they, "the rest is history".
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Peterman feel bad for him, but why he was ever considered a starting QB in Rookie or second season???
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I agree. Peterman really doesn't have an NFL arm, so his ceiling is probably, at best, a career backup. He should have been on the practice squad last season, and probably this season, too. I'm still convinced that the Bills should have just kept Taylor and let Allen develop before they put him in on the front line.