HoofHearted

Nah, typically the backside of those coverage specific routes is either a man beater or a universal concept that can win again anything. As far as the screen game - I really only like the perimeter screen game with this group. I don't think our OL are athletic enough in open space to engage blocks so avoiding those is 100% the right call. Our perimeter screen game should be fantastic though if we use Knox and Kincaid as the MDM blockers.

I said this in another post somewhere, but schematically I'd like to see more shifts and motions. I really liked what we were doing pre-snap in the miami game, but a lot of that was opponent specific because of all the man and man-match coverages they run. We do some good things with misdirection, I'd like to see more of that going forward - anything to get a defense moving or having to communicate as the ball is being snapped is good business for an offense. I think Dorsey does a phenomenal job of calling concepts that attack the coverages we're seeing in specific down/distance/field zone situations. The struggles with balance within series has largely been due to getting off schedule or not sustaining drives. I'd like to see him incorporate our tight ends on the perimeter a lot more than they currently are. We should be a hellacious screen team with Knox and Kincaid kicking out Corners on perimeter screens, but we haven't really utilized them a whole lot. There's been a few occasions where Josh has held the ball a little long for various reasons, but then just overall execution of the entire offense needs to improve early in games, specifically the offensive line and I think it will the longer they play with each other. Unfortunately there isn't one thing you can point to as the problem the last two weeks, but the good news is that the issues are all easily correctable. Why do you say that?

No shot this is true.

Every instance of a spacing issue that I've seen posted on here or by people on social media is a still shot of us running mesh. That's the whole design of the concept. Traditionally it's a rub concept vs man, and if it's zone those two players will sit in the empty spaces created in the underneath zones. We run a slightly varied version that makes things even easier for our receivers running the mesh concept. Essentially they're running their mesh crossers regardless of coverage, which eliminates the post-snap read. We then sit a player in that low hole area directly behind the backers so that we have an option vs zone coverage. Essentially Josh waits for the crossers to pull the zone defenders back out with them and then hits the Spot sitting in the middle of the formation. Saw this thrown to Diggs this week, and is one of Dorsey's favorite concepts on 3rd and short to medium because it's an all coverage beater. Outside of that I haven't seen anything else that has guys running close together.

What do you mean by this?

This isn't anything crazy or specific to us. This is every team ever in football. There's a finite number of route concepts that can be run out of different sets due to alignment, spacing, etc. Tendencies are going to form. I can assure you this isn't the only concept we're running out of any of our 2x2 sets. This narrative he's pushing that Okereke played outside his scheme to make a play is laughable. The Giants were in Cover 6. Okereke is the 3 Quick player in that coverage scheme. When the back releases out Knox becomes the 3Q player and so that's why Okereke is pushing towards him. Josh is trying to throw the anticipation ball and hit it right off of Okereke's back, but the issue is Okereke is squared up. He's not man turning with Knox. Josh probably didn't recognize it was Cover 6 because it was a half field read, but if he lofts that ball the backside Safety has to drive the Dig in Cover 4 and Knox would have walked in for a touchdown.

I'd say the misdirection stuff has been on par with what we got out of Daboll.

I’m assuming your thought process there is because of size?

Why does that make us better I guess is what I’m really asking?

Right, we’ve run that action with multiple run concepts this year (draw, inside zone, dart, GH counter) and it’s been successful out of specifically the gap scheme stuff more so than the zone/draw. The timing on it on the gap scheme stuff looks really good which is probably why they’ve stuck with it there and moved away from it on the zone scheme stuff.

He calls every run with an in-line tight end duo lol. We ran ISO all last week and he called it duo every time…

Why? Genuinely asking.

Well shoot when you’re asked about all the “shotgun draws” you ran against the Giants and you didn’t run draw a single time I’d be unsure about what’s going on too 🤣🤣🤣 Eric Turner also only included plays where Diggs was the number one read in the progression (even included one where he wasn’t but said he was) to push his narrative. There were plenty of concepts that schemed other players open. We hit some of them (Gabe specifically) and failed to execute others. Dude says some off the wall things in those videos sometimes that people here take as gospel.

Depends what you're doing with it. If it's just a jet motion to get eyes going one way and then you run the opposite, sure, though it's still forcing defenses to communicate on the fly and, more often than not, move at the snap of the ball. I don't understand why offenses don't do this with every run concept tbh - it's so simple and can give you such an advantage. Whats more intriguing to me is the change of strength motions because now you're getting teams misaligned unless they adjust with the motion, which again gets guys moving at the snap. And then what Miami is doing with motions putting force players in conflict is really good stuff. We've run draw maybe 3 times this year. Last week our backfield action looked just as you described when we ran Dart out of gun and it hit last week too.

Elam actually played a really good game. Got beat on the slot fade in Cover 1. Didn't look good playing press man at all. Lost at the LoS in true press every single time except for once iirc because of dead feet, lunging, and/or either jamming with two hands or trying to use the wrong hand. Played almost exclusively man or MOD. Looked most comfortable press bailing. I think he had a handful (6-7) snaps of Cover 2 and maybe 3 or 4 snaps of Quarters and looked really good in both. He was fantastic in run support. @GreggTX

The problem with most of those is that they're one off deals. You can use them for a game, but then can't come back to them for a while because everyone will prepare for them. I'd much rather see us lean more into motioning for misdirection. We do some of it already, but nowhere near at the clip that the Dolphins or 49ers are.

Correct.

PAP - play action pass MOD - man outside and deep (this is a technique played by corners) MOF - middle of the field (can refer to a player or a coverage - MOF Closed Coverages are 1 and 3 - MOF Open Coverages would be your two shell 2, 4, or 6)

What would you qualify as trickery or complex schemes? I’m genuinely asking, not trying to be sarcastic. Dart from gun was the most productive run scheme we had vs the Giants of the schemes that were run more than twice.

It was more so Josh holding the ball too long at times this week.

It's what the Patriots call it. There's a thousand different terms for route concepts. That's why it's so hard for casual fans to learn the game. There's no common language.

I didn't see any of this in the first half of the game.

Do you understand the reasoning behind the design of the concept?

Why the eyeroll @Chandler#81?

Pass 1 - RPO to Diggs - he was the single read. Pass 2 - Went 12 personnel. Giants played 3 to it - Corners playing MOD - Allen picked his matchup and threw to Diggs. Pass 3 - Ran Deep Crossers vs Man Coverage - they tried to Double Stef - throw to Gabe - it was open but he tripped. Diggs and Knox also open. Pass 4 - Ran a Dragon concept vs Cover 2 - hit Diggs on the Glance - he was the first read. Had Cook open to the flat and probably would have had Morris open on the Corner route to the field as the corner drove the stop underneath. Pass 5 - Went empty and hit Gabe on a stop to the boundary flat. Hitch Seam Concept vs. Cover 3. Pass 6 - PAP designed for Sherfield on a deep over - cut his route too shallow and should have drifted sooner. He was wide open. Diggs also got open on the comeback to the field. Curious if Josh got confused here - Defense should 3 pre-snap and rolled 2. Even with the shallower path by Sherfield Josh can and has made that throw before. Additionally if he just stops and throws it back across the formation he has Cook wide open in the flat with a lead blocker in Edwards backside with a Corner as the only defender close to it and he was 15 yards away. Pass 7 -PAP Snag 7 concept - reading the overhang defender - he sank with Diggs so Josh threw the arrow to Gabe - Gabe fumbled. Had Knox as an outlet backside. Pass 8 - PAP Deep Cross concept vs. Cover 3 which turns into man for the corners because of the offensive formation. Hit Diggs - Harty got hemmed up with the corner otherwise he could have blown the top off that thing because MoF Safety played Cheat to Diggs. Also had Murray as an outlet on the play. Pass 9 - PAP. This is the mesh concept with the vertical by Gabe that everyone is talking about. Allen sees single high coverage pre-snap. Safety did a good job hanging on the hash as long as possible to muddy Allens read - wanted to hit Gabe which is why he waited so long because he wanted the Safety to declare. Once Safety declared and he saw Cover 2 he immediately looked for Diggs and let it rip even though he had a wide open Shakir on the opposite side. Pass 10 - HBO Concept vs Quarters - took the quick throw to Diggs before anything else really had an opportunity to develop. Would have had Knox to the middle of the field and Gabe on a deep curl if he wanted it. Pass 11 - Ran the same Snag 7 concept to the field against Cover 6. Looked Diggs on a slant backside first - wasn't there and had to scramble to his left. Had Knox open to the flat on a whip route with the defense dropping to the sticks on third and long. If he had looked trips side first as he should have he'd probably have hit Gabe on the Curl for a first down. Pass 12 - RPO to Diggs - he was the single read and it should have been handed off. There was no play there with the defense playing 1. Pass 13 - Mesh vs Cover 3 - Cover 1 made a comment about Allen potentially thinking it was 1, but every defender is playing with zone eyes so I'd highly doubt it. Had Cook and should have thrown to Cook. Instead got pressured and threw it in the dirt to Diggs. With a clean pocket he also had Gabe on the backside deep out vs the sinking corner. Pass 14 - Basically ran a one man concept here on 3rd and forever. Defense played Cover 3 - Sherfield ran the collector to pull the MoF Safety and Diggs ran an out and up vs a Trap 3 look. They got exactly the look they wanted - Diggs beat his guy but pressure forced Josh out of the pocket and the play wasn't really designed to go anywhere else. He forced a throw off-balance and underthrew it. Pass 15 - PAP. Another two man route concept here. Diggs on the Glance and Sherfield on the Deep Out to the field vs. Cover 3. Curious about the condensed split by Diggs here, but the backers didn't bite and there was no window. Allen should have thrown the Out to the field. Pass 16 - Flood concept vs. Cover 1 Rat. Looked like Josh got confused by the double on Diggs initially - checked the MoF Safety to ensure it was 1, but then pocket broke down. Diggs worked scramble drill and got himself open. Allen overthrew it. Pass 17 - Went Empty and ran two verts backside to Cover 3 which was disguised as 0. Josh was definitely thrown off by the disguise. By the time he recognized 1 high the pocket had broken down and he threw it away to the field. Looked like Murray also ran the wrong route on the play otherwise Shakir would have been open to the flat. Pass 18 - Ran Curl Arrow to the field vs Quarters and Hitch Seam to the boundary vs. 2. Looked Diggs first - had Harty on the Curl behind it wide open, but never saw it. Pocket broke down and he ended up throwing it away on scramble drill. Pass 19 - PAP - Mirrored Deep Curls vs Cover 3 - open on both sides - threw to Diggs. Pass 20 - Had a Post/Dig concept working the middle of the field vs Cover 6 - threw to Knox and it got picked. The frustrating part is if he holds a second later the Safety is driving the Dig and Knox would have had a walk-in touchdown on the Post. Murray also open as the outlet. That's every pass from the first half of the game. Guys were definitely getting open. There's definitely a lot being schemed for Diggs, but there's also a fair amount being schemed for other guys as well. Allen finds Diggs immediately whenever anything breaks down which is understandable. Also rushed some stuff which is understandable given the consistent pressure he saw. As a side note Dorsey's play calling was impressive. Every route concept outside of the Flood vs Cover 1 was had an answer to take advantage of the coverage they saw from the defense.