SouthNYfan

Yeah Nobody is giving Bridgewater more than 15 Probably mostly incentives based Most likely no more than 1 guaranteed commitment either

Awesome about CJ!! Yeah I read the excerpts It's a he said she said Either way, colts made the right call obv But looking at leafs profile, they state he's raw, needs good coaching, and a good OLINE to protect him while he learns He was thrown to the wolves in a bad situation with the chargers, so maybe he would have succeeded in Indy (I'm sure Peyton would have succeeded anywhere btw, well maybe not Cleveland... They are awful always)

Leaf wanted to go to the chargers though He skipped the meeting on purpose to piss off Mora so they didn't take him This was verified by his agent and the chargers former GM Anyway good post overall I love seeing what these guys say

There are plenty of NFL scouts who disagree with you that none of these guys are elite prospects. Looks like you didn't even read Manning's scouting report.

Who are the dozen teams? Draft order: 1 browns 2 Giants 3 colts 4 browns 5 broncos 6 Jets 7 bucs 8 bears 9 raiders 10 sanfran 11 dolphins 12 Bengals 13 skins 14 Packers 15 cards 16 Ravens 17chargers 18 Seahawks 19 cowboys 19 lions Browns, broncos, Jets, cards, skins are the only definite. Giants are in play too, but who knows with them. Everybody else on that list is set. Cousins will most likely wind up a bronco. That leaves: Browns and jets in top6 Cards and skins we will have to jump though. If cousins stays with skins, the broncos will take a QB almost certainly. I'm not sure where you get "a dozen teams aheaed of us"

Nate might be the guy, I'm not giving up on him, but he hasn't shown enough to prove he's worth betting the future on, nor has he had enough of a chance to be given up on. You're living in a fantasy if you think that we can just bet the future on something falling into our hands.

Revisionist history is a wonderful thing, isn't it? You're acting like Manning had no negatives on his profile. Yes Manning was an elite prospect, but his draft profile had many risks listed. Many thought he had reached his ceiling, which is why Manning vs Leaf was an actual discussion. Bill Walsh, who was well known to be a great talent evaluator, said he would pass on them both. Manning's draft profile: Peyton Manning: Manning is probably the most prepared QB to enter the NFL draft in several years.. He has had a storybook college career, and has been in a top level program with excellent coaching, and he has maturity and great intangibles to go along with his natural skills.. He should be able to pick up the mental aspects of the game early on the NFL level, and should play very quickly. He has great overall field vision. He is a fierce competitor, and all of his mechanics are very solid. He has good arm strength, but not necessarily a “gun” that you might expect from a QB at the top of the draft.. He has adequate mobility and good overall AA, although he is not a scrambler by nature. He has done an excellent job of getting the most out of his abilities, but he is not quite as natural a player as Leaf. One question that some NFL scouts have is the question “will he get any better?”. At times he gives the appearance of being a self-made player, and sometimes those types of players don’t always go on to great NFL careers. In Manning’s case, he may be a solid and productive NFL QB, but he may not have Hall of Fame type skills, but it certainly won’t be for lack of effort.. He has probably been the most scouted player in the draft in recent years, and because that NFL teams tend to look too much at potential flaws, instead of accepting him for what he is, a great college QB that is on his way to an outstanding NFL career. I'm not saying anybody in this draft is Manning. I'm saying that every prospect has warts. It's how those warts are managed, or how big they are, that makes the difference. Here is Leaf for comparison: Ryan Leaf: Leaf appears to be the hot QB in this draft, and he led WSU to a storybook season...He is a physically imposing QB with great size and strength....he is very sturdy and durable in the pocket, and is a surprisingly good athlete for his size...He has a strong arm and shows good touch, and can change up the speed on his passes...He has good feet, but is not really a scrambler. However, he can stand in and take the big hits....He is a very naturally gifted player, but could improve on his throwing mechanics, although it is not a major problem....There are no physical or athletic limitations to hold Leaf back from becoming a great NFL QB. However, there appears to be some minor nagging questions in the area of maturity and his mental approach to the game. He is perceived as not always an easy guy to work with, and he tends to beat to his own drummer...As good as he is, he can have some streaks on the field where he looks like he has forgotten everything he has been taught...There seems to be a nagging question here that something might be missing, but it may be hard to verbalize it...However, Leaf made all the right moves at the end of his season when he declared for the NFL draft...Unless he turns some teams off in individual interviews between now and the draft, he should have no problems....Nobody will question his physical abilities, and it is not outlandish to think that he could be the first pick of the draft, instead of Peyton Manning....There is a huge upside with Leaf, and it is conceivable that he could be one of the best young QB’s in the game in 2-3 years...His ability to play as physical as he does and take the hits that will obviously come, when playing for a team that obviously doesn’t have a very good OL, will help him get over the tough times as a team builds around him. His sounds a lot like Allen, but his faults were magnified because he was insane. I'm not sure Allen will be a stud, but I don't think he's as crazy as Leaf.

There are also many elite prospects who are elite There are many subpar prospects who wind up being elite The % of an elite prospect being elite is greater than that of one who isn't You can't get somebody elite without taking a risk though, even a FA is a risk I'm not advocating betting the farm though I'm just playing devil's advocate in a sense that it's not as cut and dry as you make it

Rekt.

Except McBeane is a contraction referring to head coach Sean McDermott and GM Brandon Beane, you know, since they both make personnel decisions.

Really? So you've never interviewed for a job then turned it down? You just go in, take the first offer? You should always interview for multiple jobs, and with your options. That's what many people do. They schedule multiple interviews, which gives you leverage. Take the offer from a couple and then use that as a negotiating tactic for the others. "Team A offered me $5mil a year for 3. Team B offered me $4.0 mil for 4, and full draft control and trade veto. I really want to be here though, so give me something comparable and I'll take it"

Who says any of them would have signed with us? Same goes for Gilmore. Also the pats offered him 65mil with 40 guaranteed He's making as much as boyue, Sherman, Rhodes, Peterson No thanks.

Thanks dude People will interpret that list differently depending on their own opinion I just listed facts of the top5 QBs selected:)

Here are the top 5 selected in each round (ill include a later QB if he had been successful) I will leave out 2017 draft (too early to say obviously) 2016 1 goff 2 wentz 3 lynch 4 hackenberg (2nd round) 5 cody kessler (3rd round) 7 dak prescott (4th round) First 2 are stars, Dak was #7 and book is still out, he had a great rookie season and a meh second season 2015 1 jameis winston 2 marcus mariota 3 garret grayson (third round) 4 sean mannion (3rd round) 5 bryce petty (4th round) 2014 1 bortles 2 manziel 3 bridgewater 4 derek carr (2nd) 5 garoppolo (2nd) 9 aj mccarron (5th round, including him because some people seem to be interested, I am not) 2013 1 ej manuel 2 geno smith (2nd) 3 mike glennon (3rd) 4 matt barkley (4th) 5 ryan nassib (4th) 2012 1 andrew luck 2 RGIII 3 ryan tannehill 4 brandon weedon 5 osweiler (2nd) 6 russel wilson (3rd round) 7 nick foles (3rd round) 8 kirk cousins (4th round) This was a CRAZY deep draft class for QB’s overall. RGIII can be debated until death as to what he would have been without the injury Tannehill is solid, not a star, but I think he’s okay Brock and weedon are TRASH Wilson is a star Cousins is about to cash in big Foles has had ups and downs, but we can agree he’s solid I think 2011 1 cam 2 locker 3 gabbert 4 christian ponder 5 andy dalton (2nd) 6 kaep (2nd) This year had cam, then 3 misfires, then dalton @ 5th selected, and kaep had some success but that got derailed 2010 1 sam bradford 2 tebow 3 clausen (2nd) 4 mccoy (2nd) 5 mike kafka (4th) Bradford was a great talent, injuries derailed him as we know. Tebow, well, is tebow. Clausen flopped. Mccoy was injury prone so never really got a shot. 2009 1 stafford 2 SANCHIZE!! (mark sanchez lol) 3 josh freeman 4 pat white (2nd) 5 stephen mcgee (4th) Interesting. A lot of people thought the jets reached for sanchez, looks like they were right. He had some early career success because his flaws were masked by surrounding talent. As soon as they let him loose and tried to have him be “the man” he fell apart. Josh freeman is interesting, had a couple of great seasons sandwiched around a terrible one, then another bad one and he just couldn’t handle it mentally. 2008 1 matt ryan 2 joe flacco 3 brian brohm (2nd) 4 chad henne (2nd) 5 kevin o’connell (3rd) 12 matt flynn (7th round, only included b/c he had a little flash parlayed into a couple of tryout gigs, nothing big though) 2007 1 jamarcus russell 2 brady quinn 3 kevin kolb (2nd) 4 john beck (2nd) 5 drew stanton (2nd) 6 TRENT EDWARDS (3rd round) 2006 1 vince young 2 matt leinart 3 jay cutler 4 kellen clemens (2nd) 5 tarvaris jackson (2nd) 2005 1 alex smith 2 aaron rodgers 3 jason campbell 4 charlie frye (3rd) 5 andrew walter 93rd) 7 kyle orton (4th) 11 derek anderson (6th) 12 matt cassel (7th) 13 ryan fitzpatrick (7th) Orton, anderson, cassel, fitzpatrick all had careers, not very good, but they had them. I think it’s interesting how sometimes the late round picks hang on as backups, or fringe starters on bad teams, mostly due to Sitting behind somebody I think and learning, rather than being thrown to the wolves as rookies 2004 1 eli manning 2 phil rivers 3 big ben 4 jp LOSEMAN (ugh) 5 matt schaub (3rd) Ill stop here, that’s a decent sample size. That is 13 years of NFL QB drafts listing the top 5 selected, and filling in lower picks that had semi decent/starting jobs (even for a season or 2 as a bad passer, they still were a starter) This says a couple of things: Top picks are not always a sure thing (see: jamarcus, vince young, leinart, and a couple others) Lower picks (late first, early to mid 2nd) are not always bad either All QBs are a risk, but the biggest risks seem to be the “reaches” where the top 2-3 are picked early, and a QB desperate team reaches for somebody who shouldn’t have been taken that high. There are very few “deep” QB drafs, but generally, when there is a consensus of it being a deep draft, they have been correct. There are very few outside of the top 3 who make it big. I think this year is a LOCK for the top 2, then QBs 3-7 are all risks with good upside. It’s a very difficult year to gauge, but hopefully we don’t reach too much.

It's a big drop off We can agree to disagree on the cliff My point was that he dropped in the draft because he didn't respond well to the adjustments His mentality was that he was better than anybody else and didn't need to learn anything That's why he dropped The other argument started because somebody equated Jackson to Geno Smith. That's just absurd. Jackson is a hard worker, a film room junkie, and seems willing to learn and grow as a player. Jackson is also a more mobile QB with a completely different style than Geno. Does that mean he'll be able to adjust? That's not possible to say. He's also makes better on the fly decisions than tyrod and isn't afraid to throw into traffic or tight spaces. But to say he's another Geno or Tyrod is just false.

That's not "off a cliff" 300 yards, 67% comp, 17td 6 int is very good Remove his 8 td game and his first half is close

Do you even look at game logs before posting? He threw for 298/ypg (1788 yards) over his final 6 games He threw for 16 td and 4 int Oh, Geno also wasn't a rushing qb, totaling only 151 yards in 13 games his final season His final season as a whole was 71.2% comp, 4205 yards, 42 td 6 int You have no clue in regards to him as a college QB and what he did. His attitude and lack of willingness to learn was what killed his draft stock.

Except colleges never really figured out Geno His statistics were crazy good So was his raw talent and athleticism The issue with Geno was his mindset. During a precombine interview he was asked "what's the biggest thing you think you need to learn or work on to make the step to the NFL?" His response? "I don't need to learn anything, there is nothing an NFL coach could teach me I don't already know" I remember hearing that and thinking "this guy is going to get roasted in the NFL" Jackson is a work-o-holic He is a film room junkie He wants to succeed He knows to do that you need to put in work and study and practice (Apparently so is Taylor) Big differences though: Tyrod Taylor was also not even close the level Jackson is at entering the draft. Sure they are both mobile QBs, that's about it. Tyrod wasn't half the prospect entering the draft that Jackson is. This is not me endorsing Jackson as our pick by the way. As I said above, I'd prefer a more pocket oriented passer. My point is to say that Jackson is "basically tyrod" is just an over generalization because they are both running QBs.

Fair!! Vick had very little injuries prior to his prison time. He was also the greatest runner of any QB in league history. His agility and skill in making people miss was just crazy. When he returned from prison he was a better thrower, but was now taking direct hits when he ran, most likely due to losing a step or two. He had multiple concussions, rib, and hamstring injuries, all causing missed games. I'm not arguing with you by the way, just a little Vick history:)

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but some things are higher risk than others. Driving a car is statistically one of the more dangerous activities. Driving 70mph in a snow storm is higher risk than driving 45mph on a clear day. Even if you do crash doing 45mph on a clear day, the chances of a severe injury are much lower than a crash at 75mph. A quarterback who is 215 lbs who frequently runs and gets creamed by linebackers and safeties is a much higher risk for injury, as well as a higher risk for a major injury, than a 230+ lb pocket passer. So yes, anybody can get hurt. A scrambling QB just has a higher chance of it, and more likely to be worse of an injury.

I agree on this for the most part, except on the blitz part. While those can be bad, a QB moving full speed one direction into a linebacker/safety going full speed into him from the other direction is definitely a harder hit, it's just physics. But yeah... I wouldn't be terribly upset with Jackson, I'm just fearful of ANY running QBs shelf life.

I'm not a fan of guys who scramble and run a lot. I don't hate Lamar, I think he'll be a solid NFL QB actually. I just am terrified at a guy his size running through midfield, trying to jump/spin move, and getting broken in half. Guys in the NFL typically (especially linebackers and safeties) don't miss like they do in college. You mistime that spin and they will smash you. Cam weighed 30+ lbs more than Lamar when he entered the NFL Hell rgiii had 10-12 lbs on Jackson. His skills don't really scare me, it's him getting leveled and broken that do.

Except 90% of the predraft rankings and predictions have him going in the top 15, with about 50% of them having him in the top 5-8. Guess you know something that NFL scouts and talent evaluators don't. Tell me more about how he's a "terrible QB prospect" No different than EJ? Nobody had him going as high as Buffalo took him, and the decision was universally panned of my memory serves correctly. Allen is a consensus high first round pick, the lowest I've seen him going in any mock is 21 to Buffalo. Is he the #1 pick? I don't think so. He's got huge upside, but it's too big a risk for #1 overall. You have zero idea what you are talking about if you don't think he's a upper half of first round talent.

Okay I was exaggerating. You said you think Rudolph, Allen, and Jackson will be available at 21/22 That's just absurd. Allen won't make it past 15. Is that better?

You're drunk if you think Allen makes it out of the top 10.