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With his injury history and limited catch radius, I am tempering my expectations. He will probably be a useful decoy. Beane clearly favors measurables over stats. And that worries me. The team is big, tall, and fast. Cool. But if we can't complete passes, none of that will matter.

He sourced a tweet of a video making fun of him on social media as evidence. Good god. Shoot me know, please.

When fans put their fandom ahead of decent human behavior, it does lessen my like of a team. And the fans that do that are often the loudest and dumbest and sometimes the organization is dumb enough to listen. Case in point, from the world of basketball, years ago Vince Carter went to his college graduation the morning of a playoff game, and when the Toronto Raptors lost that game some fans roasted him for it--saying that it showed that he didn't care about basketball. He was traded for nothing soon after, and the team sucked for a long time because of it. Oh and he is still in the league today, and is one of the most respected veterans around. Dude should have never left, but got chased out because alot of people, including a portion of the fan base, were dumb. And I have barely followed the Raptors since then, for that reason.

Ok. Found it. Its just buried.

Corrected. You are right. Wyoming is D1. My point is that there was alot of excitement surrounding Kizer 1 year ago after a couple of promising pre season performances. And now he's suddenly trash and was always trash. Or maybe he was just put in the wrong situation. People were calling Goff trash before Fisher was fired, as well. Too many fans are too impatient. Scheme and coaching still matter at the NFL level.

Muscle memory is real. And if a QB has mechanical flaws they need to be taken seriously. There are cases where flaws were corrected(Romo)and there are cases where they were not corrected (Tebow). I don't think there has been a single case where a rookie QB started immediately, fixed his mechanics, and had suceess. Brady is the closest, I think, but his throwing improved over multiple seasons due to offseason work. I hate to break it to you but Kizer and Allen are closer than you think. And alot of people who think Kizer is Garbage also think Allen is garbage. I get the he's our guy so I'm going to back him no matter what attitude, but as prospects Allen and Kizer are similar.

If you believe in sports pyschology, yes.You can damage a QB by throwing him in too soon. And lets be honest here. This fanbase does not have a very good record of being patient when it comes to QB development. Start Allen too early and people will be calling for his head too quickly. And in the age of social media that can really mess with a guy's head. It already happened to Kizer last year, and I hope that it doesn't happen again with Allen.

I don't think he's a good coach either. Just that he knows QB's better than most. He has a good sense of a guys ceiling and basement, which is why he also traded away alot of guys that went on to suck elsewhere. Arguably, that is why he has held a job for so long when his game management is crap. He did get a couple of 300 yard games out of Kolb and thats impressive given how much Kolb sucked overall. Our coaching staff couldn't get Kolb past a floor mat.

Beating someone out doesn't necessarily mean superior performance, either, if you want to go the sematics route. Lots of players win competitions for playing time without being superior (its what upside is all about). That is why the argument with regard to whether he did or didn't beat Smith out is splitting hairs in my opinion. "Beating someone out is a colloquial" term to begin with, and you can beat someone out for a position without a superior performance in sports. And there's no apples to apples sense when it comes to qb evaluation (they aren't apples they are qbs) and that was not what I was referring to when I used a term that is generally interpreted more fluidly. If you want to debate use of a colloquial term your splitting hairs, in my opinion, in the sense that you are trying to make a very narrow distinction based on your interpretation of a term when others don't necessarily define the term in the same way, just so you can say that someone is wrong. Thats just creating noise to try and drown someone out. And when the argument is that Allen is better than Mahomes, bickering over use of the term beat him out is pointless. Its just a distraction, noise that Doc is creating to make me look like I'm wrong, when there isn't alot of evidence that he can rely on to say that Allen is in fact better, at this point at least: he hasn't thown a pass in an exhibition game even.

No. Your wrong. Reid's track record with Qb's is impressive; its been written about alot, and he's respected. He got good production out of Kolb, for crying out loud.

The question comes down to what went on behind the scenes and the evaluations that were being made. So you also can't prove that he didn't beat out Smith, either. There is no way to tell how well Mahomes was playing during closed practices. And there were rumors that he had surpassed Smith by the end of the year and should have started the playoff game. If they sat down, looked at the tape they had and decided that Mahomes was better bet going forward, then he beat out Alex Smith.

Are you going to say that he technically didnt beat out Alex Smith for the starting job because Smith was traded in the offseason? That Andy Reid, one of the best developers of QB's over the last three decades, just handed him the job to save money. Is that the argument you want to have? Is that the hair that you want to split? You don't really think that one good practice puts Allen ahead of Mahomes- you're just being a contrarian for the sake of it, right? Allen could pan out long term, that is true. But please explain to me how a 1st year rookie who had one good camp day is ahead of a second year starter, if you want to have that argument, and how your opinion is more informed than Andy Reids. Sure Reid sucks at clock management, but few doubt his ability to evaluate quarterbacks at the NFL level because he has done it sucessfully repeatedly, and no one on the Bill's staff has.

He's saw live action last year. And has already beat out a vet. Put down some good game tape.Kind of a no brainer.

The comparison is fair, they are going to be compaired for their entire careers and if Allen busts and Rosen is legit it will probably be the end of Sean and Beane. I will stand by my preference for Rosen. Its looking like Mahomes is already alot better than both, but he's had a year with Andy Reid. I wanted him more than anyone, and there were quite a few on this board who don't like Allen who felt the same way.

If that side is opposite Jerry Jones then yes. If you want to agree with Jerry Jones than go for it.

Different industries have different standards. The NFL is below industry standard. If your cool with massive wealth divides thats your perogative, but history shows that they aren't sustainable. And your thinking is pretty typical and negative, in my opinion. My pay aint guaranteed so no one elses should be. Its siding with managment, really. I never side with management. I side with workers. Its how I roll. If a worker can get more money for his family, good for him. Isn't Buffalo supposed to be a Blue Collar town?

Not when you consider league revenues and compare them to other sports.

Production is never paid what its worth. Thats the problem. Case in point, Bell is one of the most productive players in the league. The incentive for management is to underpay high producers. Thats how business always works. Thats how owners make money.

Any man has the right to provide the best that he can for his family. I believe that, its an opinion, for some reason its controversial.

Jealous, much.

There is too little organization and too much confusion and misinformation for this problem to be solved any time soon. Too many people think that players are paid well enough when a few are (starters) and most aren't (backups and practice squad).

Yeah. We have to expect missed throws. And Jimbo missed alot in his heyday. Its consecutive misses that worry me, because its a muscle memory thing.

Forgive me if I'm jumping the gun as I want Allen to succeed just as much as the next guy, but I get the sense that disputes like this are going to be the story of his career. Makes some impressive throws, misses some easy throws. Argue. Repeat.

Yes, he was good on play action. That was true. I think the problem with some of these young guys is that they are too used to being the best athlete on their teams, and can't handle it when they suddenly are not. E.J would have been the best athlete in any given sport that he played growing up, so he wouldn't really have to work too hard to succeed. The NFL is very different. Guys are playing for their livelihood not for fun.

I will back the muscle memory assertion. And its my biggest worry with Allen. Deep muscle memory requires alot of repetition, and its why mechanic problems can be difficult to diagnose and hard to fix permanently. No one complained about E.J's mechanics before the draft, yet some will claim that he should never have been drafted because of mechanical flaws. Brian Billick has a great take on this and why it ruined his coaching career in the case of Kyle Boller, in that Bollers mechanics would fall apart when he got nervous, and they had no way of knowing that until it was too late because his mexhanics were fine when he was playing well. I'm skeptical with regard to the idea that E.J was said to have mechanical issues before he was drafted, as well. There might have been issues, but you can't always spot these things on tape. You need a specialist who can watch a guy, close up, and that's not always possible in a game situation. EJ started talking about flaws that he had to correct well after he was drafted, and by then it was too late.