Nihilarian

Take a long hard look at Steve Young's career to see that like Aaron Rodgers he sat behind one of the very best QB's ever in Joe Montana for 5 years. Then he learned his craft from one of the most brilliant coaches in Bill Walsh. For the first two years after Tampa in SF, Young's completion percentage was 53.6, 53.5 in 3 game starts each year. So it took time to evolve into a star QB from the beating he took in Tampa. Looking at Peyton Mannings first season at Indy he had two 1st round picks at LT, RG and a #2 at RT so his line wasn't anywhere near as bad as the current Bills line. Plus he was only sacked a mere 22 times his first season. Manning had a 56.7 completion percentage with 26 TDs, 28 INTs. My point being I don't think I've ever seen a rookie QB start his first year and succeed with such a bad offense around him as Josh Allen has around him currently. If the kid survives to do well it will be a miracle.

Dawkins was listed as the second best interior lineman (guard) in the 2017 draft. Mike Mayock and ESPN also had him listed as a guard. Funny thing is from the start of training camp notes the team had Dawkins rolling with the two's at RT and Mills stayed with the ones at RT. Seantrel Henderson was backing up Glenn at LT. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/7/27/16053704/2017-buffalo-bills-training-camp-recap-day-1-tyrod-taylor-sammy-watkins-andre-holmes Then later on in camp after Glenn injured his foot, "At this point, Glenn's foot has been an issue for months. Without him, the Bills would be down to rookie Dion Dawkins at left tackle. He has spent most of camp working at right tackle after spending the spring working at left tackle. While the Bills are hopeful that Glenn can return for Week 1, that's not a guarantee." https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/08/cordy_glenn_injury_buffalo_bills_ot_suffers_another_setback_with_foot_gets_injec.html

Now go back and look at that 1989* Dallas Cowboys roster to see that while drafting Aikman #1 overall they also drafted an OG in Steve Wisnewski with a #2 pick. The Boys also had Mark Tuinei at LT (played 15 seasons for Dallas), Nate Newton at LG (played 13 seasons for Dallas), Tom Rafferty at C (played 14 seasons for Dallas), Crawford Ker at RG ( played 7 seasons for Dallas) and Kevin Cogan at RT (played 14 seasons for Dallas). Troy Aikman started and played behind probably one of the very best offensive lines in the history of the NFL and he learned the ropes by throwing 9 TDs, 18 INTs his rookie year. Aikman was sacked only 19 times in his first year in the NFL and completed 52.9 % of his passes. ** Take a long hard look at the talent on that Dallas Cowboys offensive line and the Buffalo Bills line, while really good at that time, pales in comparison. Their line was a big reason why they were so good for so long and WON 3 super bowls!

Yea well, not every QB is that lucky as you noted with Carr. The Bucs had a pair of first and second rounders on their line that year and more specifically a first rounder at center. Groy and Miller are the lines biggest liabilities right now and Groy spent most of that Ravens game on his back. The grade for that Buffalo Bills offensive line for the Ravens game by many was an "F" and I doubt it will get better against the Chargers, the Vikings, The Packers, The Texans. In case of Bills fans forgetting what Allen went through against Cincy...https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/08/26/bills-rookie-josh-allen-overwhelmed-awful-bengals/1106809002/ ""The Bengals outgained the Bills 246-76 as Buffalo had only four first downs and the overmatched offensive line allowed quarterback Josh Allen to be sacked five times for 39 yards in losses as Buffalo had minus-5 yards net passing. And make no mistake, this was not a case of a confused rookie holding the ball too long; he never had a chance as the Bengals’ pass rush impersonated a tsunami washing ashore. Again, I keep coming back to hideous. Allen would take a snap, and when right guard John Miller wasn’t committing a penalty, he or someone else up front was getting bull-rushed into the backfield. Their next duty was scraping Allen off the turf after he’d been accosted. Allen played a total of eight series and completed only one more pass (six) than he absorbed sacks. Charles Clay set the tone for the day on the very first play when he dropped Allen’s perfect throw over the middle. Things only went downhill from there. That first series ended with a sack. The second included a sack when center Ryan Groy got annihilated and a false start on Miller. Miller had a false start on the third drive, then Allen threw two inaccurate passes intended for Clay and Jeremy Kerley. On the fourth possession, Allen hit Kelvin Benjamin for 11 yards, but the next three plays did not produce a first down and Sean McDermott punted on fourth-and-inches from his own 43 in a preseason game his team was already trailing 14-0. Shaking my head on that one. Allen’s fifth series ended on a sack, his sixth was derailed by a Miller personal foul penalty and two sacks that resulted in fourth-and-38 (this time I agreed with McDermott’s decision to punt). His seventh series was a three-and-out during which Benjamin should have caught Allen’s pass down the numbers on the right side, and his final possession ended with his head bouncing off the ground. He finished 6 of 12 for 34 yards and probably feeling fortunate all his body parts were still operational, a fact that was confirmed when, after being removed from the game to be evaluated for a concussion, he was cleared to return to action, though McDermott wisely opted against it."" I hope Miller, Groy play better so Allen can survive the game as I doubt Peterman will relieve him at any point. I also hope the Bills get their run game going and forget about that pass first nonsense. I'm just mad as hell at McD, Beane for trading away AJ McCarron and not bringing in a veteran QB while not finding better talent at C, RG. This FO made the right choice at QB this year and now they are breaking their plan to have him sit and develop. I'll be even madder if this regime ruins this bright young talent at QB.

HOLY ****! Okay, Now I'm thoroughly afraid for Josh Allen soon to be the human pinata.

I totally agree with this. I've seen so many good prospects at QB go to bad teams and get ruined due to bad lines, bad coaching, bad teams. While it is true that some are simply bad to start with it's also a fact that some can be great and never get that chance because they get drafted by a bad team. Just look at Steve Young and his two years at Tampa Bay. The 1986 Bucs Young went 2-12, 8 TDs, 13 INTs with a completion percentage of 53.7. If left on that bad team Young would have never amounted to anything.

This is pure horse hockey. McD knew the last draft that the line wasn't good enough when he drafted Dawkins in the second round to replace Mills. Then when Glenn went down with an injury Dawkins replaced him at LT and played well. That still doesn't change the fact that this FO had the 2018 draft and free agency to replace some of the absolute scrubs on that line. Groy is one of the very worst centers and Miller was just about as bad. (Bodine gotta be better.) Neither player should be starting on an NFL team. There are better players out there and for some reason, this FO didn't/won't go after them. I find it hard to believe that there isn't a center or offensive guard out there on somebody's practice squad better than Groy, Miller. The team should be looking at a signing a veteran QB and cutting Peterman too. WR Dez Bryant T Austin Howard OG Jahri Evans QB Matt Moore QB Paxton Lynch

Bills fans just don't see how bad that line is even after watching all the QB pressures, sacks on the Bills QB starters for the Browns, Bengals, Ravens games. It's not just the line either as the receivers aren't getting separation or getting open a lot of the time. Then fans complain that the QB is holding the ball too long. I doubt very many NFL starting QB's would survive for very long behind the current Bills offensive line. The OC Groy was on his back most of the game and Miller was just about as bad. We can see it so I don't get why Beane/ McD don't see it

We're gonna know pretty quick if he starts the game out with that pass first, quick strike crap. This is not a strong passing team and it doesn't take a brainiac to see that much. The Bills need to get Shady involved in the run game first and then into open space in the passing game.

I agree to a point. Kim and Terry run this team and although they may listen to the fans quite a bit I kinda doubt they will follow with what the fans want. But C'mon Pickerman was beyond pathetic... as was the offensive line, as were the receivers, as was Daboll, as was the defense for a while, as was special teams. It's tough to win in the NFL when the entire team looks undisciplined, unprepared at first. The team came around but it was already out of hand and too late.

We can only hope for Allen's sake that Daboll removes his cranium from his posterior long enough to stop with the quick strike, pass-first offense and does pound the rock. The sad fact is we don't know what the Bills coaches are planning. But I can tell you that the entire Charger defense must be drooling at the thought of sending a blitz every play until Allen learns how to beat it. All they gotta do is watch that Cincy/Raven film to see that Groy and Miller are worthless.

You can start an NFL rookie QB or a steaming turd. Regardless I still don't want to start that rookie QB behind a historically bad offensive line. That OC and RG have no business starting an NFL game or even being backups for that matter.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000951742/article/bills-josh-allen-blames-self-for-five-sacks-vs-bengals

Are you referring to the USFL team or his start with the 1986 Bills? Because if it's the Bills the reason for the 4-12 season was because the team started 2-7 under Hank Bullough and finished 2-5 under Marv. That team was far from horrible as they had Andre Reed, Pete Metzelaars, Rob Riddick, and on the line Ken Jones, Jim Ritcher, Kent Hull, Will Wolford, Joe Devlin. That was a darn near a great offensive line. Kelly was learning the NFL ropes and threw for 3593 yards with 22 TDs, 17 INTs. If Allen had anything remotely close to that kind of talent on the line I'd be calling for him to start too.

may he rest in peace The Bills have a young Aaron Rodgers and now seemed determined to ruin him. At the end of the year most Bills fans will probably be saying he was never any good anyway.

Also coached by our terrible OC who wants to run a pass first, quick strike offense with a pair of noobies at QB. I only hope at some point he realizes he doesn't have a Tom Brady / Aaron Rodgers at QB and needs to run the ball to give either QB a chance to play well.

You would think that if this coaching staff knew what they were doing that this would have happened already. Don't get me wrong here guys as I'm not championing Nate Peterman as I think he is probably the very worst Buffalo Bills QB ever. I just don't want to see that rookie QB ruined! Peterman sucks and if the team still had AJ McCarron or even Paxton Lynch, Matt Moore I'd say start them and let the rookie sit and learn.

It is confusing to me too. Looking at how poorly the offensive line has played all preseason and in that Ravens game. Both Groy and Mills shouldn't be starting or even backups for that matter. Looking at this receiver corps and their inability to get separation or get open a lot of the time. Looking at how Josh Allen played as the starter in that Cincy game and how Peterman played as the starter in the Ravens games leaves me to think this coaching staff doesn't have a freaking clue. Not to mention trading away AJ McCarron and not replacing him with another veteran QB.

What most Bills fans should know by now is that the opposing defense usually lets up somewhat when a different QB enters the game as they didn't game plan for him. Which is why I think the Bills should start Peterman for at least the Chargers and Vikings. Peterman is expendable and it won't matter to kill his confidence by pulling him. OTOH, you don't want to start Allen and then EJ him by pulling him for Peterman if things go horribly wrong like they did against Cincy. If this FO isn't going to fix that offensive line by finding a real NFL center and right guard then I suppose it won't matter who they start.

But he has proven that he isn't ready to run that quick strike, fast-paced offense. He proved it against the Bengals. He might be okay if the Bills went to a run first offense.

Why, because Allen didn't look so bad in relief of Peterman just like Peterman didn't look so bad in relief for the Browns, Bengals?

Ahh, how soon we all forget that Cincy game in which Allen was under such heavy pressure he went 6 of 12 for only 34 yards and was sacked 5 times IN THE FIRST HALF! He was sacked for more yards then he threw for... I hope Allen sits until Pickerman throws his picks and then Allen comes n.

I disagree with this as this HC was able to get his team in the playoffs for the first time in 17 years and I doubt Pegs will pull the plug after only one losing season. I think McD has three more years... unless of course, the Bills play all year like they did against the Ravens as I don't think any owner could take many of those 47-3 blowouts.

Believe it or not, some believe Ducasse had the best game of all the linemen despite the two penalties. Both tackles played decently and the real liabilities were at OC and RG as both Miller and Groy struggled badly. Wait until Mills has to face a really good DE like Bosa or Mack as he will show how bad he really is. You're right though, as I would also replace every player on that line save Dawkins.

I had no initial fears as he was touted as getting a brilliant offensive mind that studied under Belichick, Saban. One week does not define a career so I'm willing to see how he does going forward. If he wants his offense to work he had better get that run game going because his QB's are far too raw to run some advanced pass first, hurry up offense.