Billsfan1972

The Defense was terrible. Read Winners & Losers on Grantland and see that the Bills were 24th against the rush and 29th in Defensive Pressure. At home an not a single sack or hit on Dalton Please no comments that Cincy is good. Deplorable D yesterday. Cincy converted third downs easily and were 4 for 4 in the redzone Watkins comes out with his comments and still EJ and Roman called all of one play the first quarter and a half. Heck EJ looked his way only one other time. Every play was the same with no mothion and Watkins lined up outside. The 89 yard drive 4-4 and the only time an interesting formation and a TD pass to Watkins. How after Watkins comments, you come into the game ands again didn't use him for the first 20 minutes defies logic. I posted the exact same thing last year. The Bills offensive scheme is so vanilla and pedestrian that it has no chance to succeed.

I've watched TT (though only 2 and a bit games with Watkins) and you can tell he doesn't look for him. Too many plays it is obvious from the get go that if a passing play it is called for someone else. To me that is the OC's responsibility.

Let's get this right. Sammy has missed 2.5 games. TT didn't look at him vs. Indy, got a few tio him vs. NE & maybe 2 X vs. Miami (one long completion, another completed OB). The last 2 weeks the WR's were MIA and pretty obvious Harvin disappeared as the primary target with Watkins out. Only Clay @ TE a viable target. Watkins is right that TT and the OC barely look at him, while Eli Manning basically looks at OBJ every play (whether he throws it to him or not). This goes back to last year and does get old and I understand Watkins complaints. One other thing that is seldom shown is catchable balls or open targets. To say someone was targeted 8 or 10 times and caught 6, means little if the other 4 were throwaways and uncatchable.

I am not reading all 29 pages bt will say it is pretty obvious from the last 2 weeks (with Watkins out) that he is important to the offense. It is ridiculous that he is used way too often as a decoy. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards/year/2015/seasontype/2 The fact is that it's sad how little they use him in comparison to other wr's. At least on PTI tonight outsiders agreed with Watkins' stance.

Huge difference. Bills hold them to a fg and the defense bent but did not break, which is a psychological difference and 12-3 vs. 16-3. That changes the placalling throughout the game. The score is then 12-10 after the williams TD, not 16-10. Also if Urbik not called for the hold it is 12-10 and the Bills ran 3:09 off the clock after that and then missed the FG..... We can go on and on, but the offside was as stupid a penalty as a team can take.

Yes Manning got rid of the ball quick, but he wasn't hit either or pressured most of the game. What he did was release it quickly. There were not hands in his face or tipped balls either. He wasn't throwing the ball in 1.79 seconds because he was under pressure and that is the point..... The one sack was at the line of scrimmage.

Yes 1.8 means you are dumping the ball. However there were plays that needd to develop and little pressure there too. Only part of the story.

I wonder what he said behind closed doors. The histironics was embarrassing and the amount of penalties (particularly pf's) unacceptable.

Reading yesterday's disappointing loss and look back at the first four games and some notes..... Where is the pass rush? Sorry at home vs. an average team & 1 sack for -1 yards is not impressive (nor acceptable). Very little pressure too DB's did a good job. OBJ was contained. No excuse for so many penalties. The illegal formation on the Giants FG is as stupid a penalty as a team can make and cost 4 points. Two ticky-tack penalties (the hold was 50/50 at worse and the chop-block was 100% wrong cost big). Bills had all 3 TO's and a minute left. If the Urbik hold ot called it is a TD and an extra 3.09 of playing time Missed tackle resulting in the 51 yard TD was the play of the game. Make the tackle and the game is different. Missed Watkins big. Like OBJ, he creates a match-up nightmare, which would have opened up Harvin, Woods or Hogan, which is exactly what was missing. What is it with the schedule? NE & NYG 10 days to prepare. And this week Tennessee 14 days. Can't blame the Refs for everything, but they are not Bills fans and seemed happy to throw flags.

And he could have called the timeout (like he should have) and the exact same result. BB made a mistake, got away with it and some need to add to the mystique/lore of BB. Absolutely wrong. Butler was the hero, and don't be surprised if BB cuts or releases him, which would be classic Belichek.

Not a chance..... It was a mistake plain and and simple. Without the int, a TD is scored and max there is 25 seconds left (if scored on second down). Would they have then taken a timeout (if a run and no TD)? No BB had a brain cramp. The int was a fluke play and a colossal error by the Seahawks. BB deserves no credit.

BB blew it..... Got away with it and now looks like a genius???? Peter King is full of it. It was a mistake plane and simple. They have to use their 2 timeouts and try and stop Seattle. Worst case scenario is Seattle scores the last play of the game on 4th down. The expected scenario is 3 down with 55 seconds to go (as Seattle would have used their TO if 4th down). Lucky doesn't begin to describe what happened.

What NE was doing not calling a timeout with 1:02 to go after Lynch got it down to the 1 made no sense either. Then Seattle lining up with an empty backfield and no choice but to pass was ridiculous. You line up for a run and have options galore with Wilson as the QB and Lynch in backfield. Plenty of time and 3 plays to score. Add to that they threw into a crown (the middle) was asinine.....

Will remind you about these two catches that changed the outcome. Sure ODB would catch them too..... http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014100502/2014/REG5/bills@lions#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000405801&tab=videos http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014100502/2014/REG5/bills@lions#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000405416&tab=videos

And again, how would ODB have looked on the Bills with the OC, EJ & KO throwing him balls? What about all the teams that passed on ODB and the fact many thought the Giants drafted him a little early too? Would ODB have caught the pass SW did vs. Detroit setting up the GW FG (or was he still injured). No one knows. How many layers really do blossom after a bad rookie season (i.e. Ebron)? How many high draft picks who put up and ave a good rookie season regress (net of injuries)? Could go on, but am convinced those unhappy with the trade are more upset that they can't debate who to pick 19th this year, vs. the production. BTW I asked ages ago for someone to post the ESPN Insider article claiming it was a bad trade.

Watkins is very good. He is someone I'm excited to watch and cheer for. There is no way that the Bills would ever target him 23X's a game unless KO was throwing it away, which he was a significant amount of times in 2014. Heck if there was a stat tracking catchable balls, real targets,missed opportunities or double coverage, I'd like to see that. I don't really care about woulda/coulda/shoulda on a draft choice that is id/late first round. We got a very good player (without a doubt)...... The people arguing the trade are those who would have been happy with Ebron (though pissed the Bills didn't take ODB) and excited at the 7-9 (or 6-10 season as Watkins doesn't impact 2 wins the last second in 2014) and talking about the 9th pick this year..... Pathetic.....

Apologist for what???? Getting a great pick, who won the Bills two games in 2014 and looks to be a star for years to come (with any passable QB)????? What a bust!!!!

What we do know is that Ebron was underwhelming year 1 and Watkins had a very good first year (and could have been much better), showed flashes of greatness and barring injury will be a very good receiver. Ebron showed nothing (and actually was more so a bust)..... But keep on posting......

Don't you get it..... JTSP (who still hasn't posted the ESPN Insider article of the OP) is pissed that the Bills went 9-7, as opposed to 6-10 and that largely is SW's fault by winning games vs. Detroit & Minnesota. Bills traded, got SW @ 4, as opposed to Ebron @ 9, a 6-10 record and the 7-8th pick this year. JTSP is right that SW cost the Bills again!!!!!! Forget enjoying wins and his play.......

The difference is, is that they got the call right yesterday. The ball touched the ground. We see this all the time and regardless if the receiver would have held onto the ball or not is moot. Bryant made a great catch and as he was coming down, unfortunately it hit the ground as he reached out. Those who think he caught it, would have said the ground can't cause a fumble if it bounced out when he reached for the endzone. What the problem was he didn't ensure he made the catch and that is his fault. The Detroit call/non-call/reversal on the other-hand was a joke.

BTW JTSP you started the thread yet have not even posted the article, which you references (ESPN Insider), so few can even critique what was written..... Smooth move.....

Still waiting as to what you think ODB would have produced on the Bills as per the thread title. One year in and ODB has much better #'s, however was not responsible for two last second wins as opposed to SW. However I'm more then happy cheering for someone (SW) as opposed to commenting on the footwork of some offensive tackle...... Let's make it simple JTSP.... How many games did ODB win for the Giants in the last minute?

Yes I expect significant improvement from SW and hope that the HC search pinpoints what the chosen one will do wrt the offense. I look forward to the vitriol if SW drops a ball next year. ODB was double teamed by the end of the year???? SW was the majority of the year. Now look at the Defenses SW faced.... NE (and Revis X's 2), Miami, KC, Houston, Cleveland, GB, Detroit (#1), Minnesota, Denver..... NYG had an easy schedule by comparison and some of the worst d's..... So JTSP how many targets and catches you think ODB would have had as a Bill in 12 games as per the title?

And we all are in agreement that SW had a very good rookie season, that could have been better with scheming and a qb, yet we lament what we gave up a 19th pick. I don't get it...... How about a QB being excited to play with a great receiver. Add to that as a rookie he was targeted by every defense. As for the 4 drops, I'm sure someone has a better stat and will claim 20 dropped passes? And I don't remember a really bad drop (ie. a long pass or one in open field with room to run.

Ok JTSP, we all agree ODB had the catch of the year/decade/all-time, but does he make that catch vs. Detroit reaching back behind his body, keeping concentration in the middle of the field and tip it to himself, which set up the gw field goal or does it just stick to his hand? How many here have claimed SW drops balls? He dropped 4 all season. It's subjective and yes we see what we want. Every time it seemed SW was about to breakout and have monster stats, KO stopped throwing to him. And targets are a joke when you'd watch KO or EJ throw it behind, over his head OB...... Watching him run clear or used as a decoy was too a joke. ODB is a great receiver, however in the context of the Bills offense he would have looked meiocre and I can't see how his stats/game could have been better.