The Frankish Reich
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Posts posted by The Frankish Reich
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And that's what was so awful about that opt out and still get paid" clause. As soon as the Pegulas deal was finalized, Marrone's entire incentive structure changed. He knew it was more about trying to improve his marketability in the coaching market than it was about doing the best thing for the Bills franchise in 2014 AND in future years. Other than starting Orton in Game 16, I can't point to any single decision that demonstrates, in retrospect, a conflict of interest. But that's not the point. The point is this: with that clause in place, every action he took after Ralph died -- that's the entire 2014 season, from training camp to bringing in Orton straight thru the end -- must now be viewed thru the lens of "was this for the good of the Bills, or for the good of Doug." Thankfully those interests align most of the time. But not all of the time. For this I blame Brandon for negotiating a clause that created the potential (and expectation, given Ralph's age) of a real conflict, and Marrone, for apparently thinking of himself first and the club second. The only good news is that lack of loyalty is now evident thru his actions and the open sniping of his former associates.Brown didn't play because Brown can't block. CJ Spiller has the same problem. RB's need to be able to block in the NFL to get on the field (unless they truly are a feature back). As for Marrone, he played to win and put his best people out there. I do not appreciate how he unceremoniously left, but I do believe he put the best players on the field to win the game. The reality is that if he wanted to make this power play and thought it was going to work (even if only a small percentage), he wouldn't sabotage his own future.
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This is more fun to watch every day. Just hoping that it's enough to destroy Double Dealin' Doug's chances of getting a new HC gig. The old "be careful about the people you screw on your way up" advice biting Dougie's fat butt.
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I wonder how many erotic novel titles based on players names we can come up with. Right off the top of my head:
Fifty Shades of MarQueis Gray.
Manuel Stimulation.
Robert Griffin:The Thirst.
Something about Jordan Gay... Not that there's anything wring with that.
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It's likely Marrone had a power play in mind at some point during the season. In light of that, what do you think he would have done differently had he been an actual coach looking to develop young talent for the future? Specifically I'm thinking about:
1- Healthy scratches for Goodwin, Koundijo, Bryce Brown and Wiliams
2- Stubbornly refusing to try Koundijo at G
3- Not playing EJ in a meaningless finale to see if he had progressed
The idea with this thread is not to bash Marrone yet again, it's to see if you guys think the above players actually have more talent than indicated by the coach's lack of confidence in them. What do you think?
In retrospect, it seems likely that none of the recent acquisitions/draft picks were "Marrone guys." So opt-out clause or not, this was a train wreck waiting to happen. To me the most inexplicable one was Bryce Brown, not Mike Williams. When Spiller went down I fully expected Brown to get lots of work. In fact, Brown looked pretty good, particularly on the catch and run plays. But Marrone continued to use him sparingly.
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Bradham was our best cover LB this year. I think he would be a front runner for the gig
As a Bills fan, my wife prefers A Meatballing to Remember, an erotic fantasy inspired by Kyle Williams.
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This is what happened with the Redskins, Kyle was the problem. Dad was not going to fire him. Don't want to see him or dad with the Bills.
I just don't get this criticism of the Redskins under Shanahan. He sold the farm to bring in RG3, thinking he was a rare talent you could build an entire offense around. He was right! Then RG3 gets hurt and the offense is crap. That's what happens when your rare talent of a QB goes down and you have to play Kirk Cousins. Green Bay under Scott Tolzien or whatever his name is wasnt' exactly a juggernaut either. The Shanahans can fairly be blamed for a lot of things -- hell, you can even blame Shanny for letting RG3 play after the first knee injury -- but they can't be blamed for a crappy offense that followed the loss of their QB, or the QB's loss of skills/confidence when he came back. Jay Gruden didn't have a whole lot of success the following year either.
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Peter King nails this one. Shanny has the stature that would allow Schwartz to stay on as DC without destroying his pride. And I like the total offense reboot King suggests. Let's face facts: when an offense is as bad as ours was this year, there's no such thing as a "core to build around" or an untouchable player. Check what's happened to excellent defenses in recent NFL history -- they have about a 2-3 year run in them before age, free agency, injuries, and other factors bring an inevitable decline. We have the D right now, we might not after letting a young QB (and a young coach) develop for a couple years. The future is now! Go grab it.Peter King's on board with Shanny (from today's MMQB):
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/05/nfl-los-angeles-rams-wild-card-weekend/8/
I think if I were the Buffalo Bills, this is exactly what Id do: Hire Mike Shanahan. Keep Jim Schwartz with an extension and a raise. And trade for Jay Cutler. Shanahan is the one who found and drafted Cutler and got him going on the right foot in Denver in 2006. The defense is ready to win playoff games now (not just qualify for the postseason), and its time to sell out to try to get the big-armed quarterback, who is scarred right now but still far better than the alternatives, to give Buffalo a legitimate offensive chance.
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Or another way of putting it: the worst QB still playing this year is probably Matt Stafford, who is clearly in the top dozen or so.
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Bill, welcome back! I agree with everything except perhaps 6 (keeping Hughes at all costs) and maybe 10 (bring back Levitre). The offense was so bad (and the D so good) that I think you've got to apply all discretionary money to improving it. Keep Jarius Wynn, maybe bring someone else in, but that Hughes money has to go to the offense. As for Levitre, sure, if he's cheap, but I'd be looking for younger/healthier talent. THE FUTURE IS NOW!
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I forgot about Capricorn One Frank. I just think he is one of the top 3 RB's of all time, and he was a Bill. I'm not embarrassed about his off the field antics as he was disgusting in his actions, and now he's in prison, which is where he belongs. His name is up there simply for the time on the field, That's it.
What sucks is how all of the conversation around greatest RB's, he is often overlooked because of his later choices. He was so much better than many brought up in the usual conversations. I loved watching him when i was a young boy.
I understand the other points of view though. It's just conversation.
On this we definitely agree. I am too young to remember Jim Brown or Gale Sayers, but in my football fan life, I believe no RB has been so completely game changing as OJ. Earl Campbell came close, but his run ended pretty quickly, as was the case with Barry Sanderson. Dickerson was pretty close too. Payton and Emmitt were not the same kind of back -- they lacked the explosiveness, the realization that every run was just one amazing cutback/acceleration away from a breakaway. What a talent, sadly squandered first by an uncreative coaching staff/management in the 1970s, then by the poorest post-football adjustment to life imaginable.
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I missed that they already extended Marvin Lewis thru 2015. Amazing. How do you keep that job when you've never won a single playoff game?
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Just missed the Hollywood walk of fame. Capricorn One, now that was a performance. (I actually loved that movie when I was a kid).You forgot "The Towering Inferno" as he was the guard who found the fire. Don't forget the Hertz commercials.
In all seriousness, I may be in the minority, but he is the only person ever in the NFL who ran for 2000 yards in 14 games. Dickerson, nor AP, ever did that so for his play on the field, he should be on the wall. Now his behaviors afterwards are despicable, and he is in prison.
The problem is there are athletes who have committed crimes after their time in professional sports. It doesn't make sense as it is a slippery slope and where do you draw the line.
As for slippery slope fears. C'mon, I don't really want to go there but... You have to admit that there are some things so repugnant that the usual rule (a place on the Wall is forever) has to be suspended. Let's say OJ had joined a jihadi group and helped to finance a terrorist act that killed Americans. Or was convicted of sex abuse of a child. Or... Was found liable for a double homicide, and was convicted of a robbery. The hard and fast rule of "if we do it under these circumstances, how do we draw the line for lesser misbehavior" is an excuse for not being willing to make distinctions.
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In a shocking development, it appears that the Bengals, needing 2 TDs (and 2 two point conversions) just punted away any chance of getting the ball back two times. Add new HC candidate Marvin Lewis. He's like Doug Marrone's fraternal twin!
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I'm really conflicted about it. I know he was found not guilty, but just seems wrong to have his name up there alongside someone like Bob Kalsu.
Ugh, we can't even be proud of our the best player in our teams history.
That's why God invented Jim Kelly.
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This was my first Bills game:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/197109260buf.htm
OJ was the only reason to watch (but for whatever reason, as a kid I thought Dennis Shaw was the man). I have great memories of that day in September, OJ running the ball, Dennis Shaw throwing (picks), the Bills losing (they were 1-13), the Rockpile in its waning years ... but still, time to move on. That OJ went away a long, long time ago.
And it's also worth pointing out that removing the name doesn't erase the fact that it was once up there. It's such a clear decision, IMO, the only reason it hasn't been brought down already is this is an organization clearly mired in the thinking of "well it's just how we've always done things, so, even though they don't make sense, we've always done it that way, and let's just keep doing it."
How about this as a rule of thumb for Wall of Fame: if its in any doubt, it really shouldn't be up. If OJ wouldn't be welcome in the stadium — and he wouldn't — he shouldn't have his name on the Wall. I'll go further and say having OJ Simpson's name on the Wall diminishes the value of the other names.
To be strictly practical, removing it would be a good "quietly noble" PR move for the Pegulas. Nobody is going to be like "wow, what a terrible move!" People might respond with "how was it still up to begin with?! Good for them to take it down."
Moreover, it would just be right.
That's the perfect way to think about it. Well said.
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Those of you saying his name belongs on the wall are cowards.
I don't agree at all. I think people legitimately believe we don't need to rewrite history -- his name is up there to honor his achievements and contributions long before his life took an evil turn. And I agree that there's a fine line here. I don't think the Bills should start photoshopping him out of team pictures, taking his name out of the Bills record book, etc. But in this case, I think the "keep him on the Wall" viewpoint is wrong because we can't get away from the implications that we're honoring the man as he is today. But I respect the opposing view (and I'll try to convince them otherwise)
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The Frankish Reich brought it up first, so I responded. Talk to Frankish.
True. And by the way, I'd probably keep OJ in the HOF too, but not if they refuse to discuss his post-retirement conduct. Again, I think the HOF allows for context, for thinking about what fame is, why we honor people (performance on the field? character? both?), whereas putting someone's name on a stadium wall just doesn't. It can't be seen as anything other than honoring the both the man and his achievements.
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Screw tanking. We're going to reload and go after this thing and bring home the Hardware in 2015.
WHO'S WITH ME ?????
I'm 100% with you. THE FUTURE IS NOW! Do whatever you can to win in 2015-16. Mario, Kyle, Dareus, Hughes -- those guys won't be together much longer. Don't waste something great!
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It's a tough position for the Bills. His name was put up there prior to everything that transpired. He wasn't convicted so what would the Bills do "well we know he did it so we're taking his name down". I think the organization is as embarrassed by his name being up there as we are. I think the best thing to do is just leave him off any recognition of past players in the new stadium and they can come up with a PC reason to not include him.
Well, the fact that he's in prison for a different violent offense makes it easy. As does the fact that he was found responsible in a civil trial for the deaths of two persons. I don't want to be all sanctimonious about this, but I think if in your place of business -- whatever it might be -- one of the former CEOs who guided the company through a profitable period was found responsible for killing two people and is currently serving a long sentence for robbery, you wouldn't think twice about renaming the "OJ Simpson Conference Room."
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I find it hard to believe anyone would want to even entertain the thought of trading Sammy Watkins. This team hasn't had a legit #1 WR in over a decade; they're not easy to find. He put up nearly a 1000 yards his rookie season while playing almost the entire year with some type of injury. He was also terribly implemented into the offense. There is nothing but great things in his future.
What do you plan on doing about the WR situation when you trade Sammy?? Robert Woods is a very good WR2 but he can't take on CB1's & double teams. Whomever they bring in at QB is going to need WRs.
With an OC that actually has a clue, Watkins will be worth every penny. The NFL is a passing league now & a player of Watkins caliber will win you games
I never suggested dumping Sammy, or trading him for less than fair value. We just saw with the Cardinals what happens when you have a great defense, strong receivers (although Fitzgerald is clearly hurting), but a poor offensive line and no quarterback. And while the Cardinals with Lindley was an extreme, the Cardinals with Stanton or Skelton prove the same point. The Cardinals are going nowhere if Carson Palmer doesn't come back nearly 100% next year. And neither are the Bills.
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Its embarrassing to have his name still up there. It doesn't matter what he accomplished when he played. He could have multiple MVPs and be solely responsible for a Super Bowl win and I'd still say pull it down. It makes the team/organization/community look like they're passively defending OJ as a person because he was a star athlete. We have plenty of other star athletes to celebrate that aren't connected to murder.
For a Wall of "Fame", OJ Simpson is way more famous for being a criminal than a Buffalo Bill. In my opinion, removing his name is way, way, way overdue.
Time to let it go. Take it down.
This is sadly true. My wife had no idea who he played for -- she just knew him as a guy in commercials and bit roles in movies. And since 1993, as a (likely) killer.
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Ouch
Yeah, I'm gonna have to watch that. I hope my 420th wasn't about marijuana or something.
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He's on there for what he did on the field and he was found not guilty of murder. No argument
I see this was your 666th post. Just sayin'
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This will get you shouted down, but I actually think it's the right thing to do. We'll hear arguments to the contrary, all of which are fair, but none of which convince me:
1. His deplorable actions took place long after his Bills career ended. True, but the Wall of Fame is a continuing honor. It's not like taking back an MVP trophy he earned at the time.
2. We can't just start pulling names down from the Wall of Fame for every kind of crime or indiscretion. True, but there's really no comparison between, say, a former player who picks up a DUI, or even a former player who engages in financial fraud or admitted PED use, etc. We have to draw the line somewhere. I say OJ shows us where.
3. What, are we going to take him out of the HOF too? That's the NFL's decision, but again, it's different. Example: I say put Pete Rose in the baseball HOF, but include some background with his plaque explaining how he sadly ended his career by gambling on baseball and besmirching the integrity of the game. The HOF allows for such context because it's an exhibit/museum. The Wall of Fame doesn't, and every time they try to collectively honor the Wall of Famers they will face the embarrassing problem of how to deal with OJ's name up there.
So take it down. Not in some big ceremony or show of self righteousness. Just quietly.
How long has Marrone been plainning on leaving?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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Probably a gradual move from "I want out, but I'm stuck with this contract" (the preseason "just fire me" episode) to "hey, the sale of the team may give me an out" (the triumphant Pegulagasm) to "hey, I've got a better opportunity out there after all" (the collapse of Rex Ryan's Jets, which was competed at the Detroit snow bowl).