PolishDave

So if I describe myself as being Superman, does that mean I can fly around at the speed of light, leap buildings in a single bound and shoot lasers out of my eyes? Who the hell cares who he compared himself too? How does that matter to anyone at all? I don't see the Ben Rothlesberger in him at all. Ben is one of the hardest QBs to sack. EJ is one of the easier ones. Not close. So is almost every quarterback. That is not how football works. The other teams are supposed to pressure you. Good quarterbacks will make the rushers miss and then still make a play, not every time, but a lot of the times. A trait of an outstanding quarterback is one who can tell where they pressure is going to come from and then make the other team pay for it. EJ isn't very good at either of those things, at least not yet. = Still a backup

TD vs. Carolina was good. Shows he has talent. Did I see him escaping the pass rush Thursday? NO. I saw him getting sacked Thursday repeatedly and stumbling around in the pocket. What game did you watch? His made a couple short throws and one run for first down during his first 3 series. He basically sucked for his first 3 possessions out there. His fourth possession was impressive. But being impressive 25% of the time is not good enough to be a starter in the NFL. It will lose you games consistently unless your defense plays lights out.

Maybe the Steelers will trade QB's with us then so they can have the younger version of him and we can go win a Superbowl? Come on man... EJ looked abolutely nothing like Big Ben. Ben is notorious for avoiding the pass rush and then throwing a bomb on the same play. EJ hasn't learned the first part of that well enough yet. He is nowhere near Ben R. EJ looks more accurate than he has in the past, but his pocket awareness looks the exact same to me as it did last year (which is not very good by the way). = Backup for now. I noticed that during the game. That was definitely impressive how he one handed that and made it look like it was second nature.

I don't know if those were broken plays that turned into big plays or not. If they weren't broken plays then they are completely irrelevant to the point I am trying to make. Even if they were all broken plays, 3 plays in 3 random games are not enough for me. He needs to make those kinds of plays much more often. Let's use last night as an example. He could have avoided a couple of those sacks. He actually did avoid a couple of them at first and then stumbled around and still ended up getting sacked. He looked like every subpar quarterback looks who can't turn those plays into positive plays for his team. He just isn't good enough. At least not yet. He's a backup.

I think EJ will become a starter when he finds a way to turn more of the broken plays into big plays for his team. One of the things you notice in great quarterbacks is that they make a lot of big plays after the pocket has broken down and after they have been flushed out of it or after they have been pressured some other way. When I see EJ under pressure and he manages to avoid the first guy coming at him, I start to think "Come on man....hit somebody down field, coverage never sticks with their receivers that well when the quarterback is trying to avoid a sack" And instead of throwing that deep ball to his one on one receiver downfield, he kind of looks like he gets confused. He takes a step and often times gets sacked. He did face some wicked pressure yesterday up till his last drive. And instead of making plays (well he did make one run for a first down in the first series) he took sacks or scrapped the play. That isn't what a good quarterback does. That isn't what a determined to win at all costs quarterback does. You can't expect a perfect pocket every time. It isn't going to happen in this NFL. You have to be able to beat guys half the time they pressure you. He isn't very good at that at all in my opinion. IF he was good at that, I think he would be a starter and this team could win with him regularly.

Wouldn't you think Roman would like Tyrod too? Given that he is big on the running game and coached with Kap?

Rex and Roman surely must have some idea of who they are thinking about going with. It will have a huge impact on the style of offense they can run. I guarantee that they already have a pecking order in their heads. That doesn't mean it can't change between now and week 1, but I am quite sure they already have their minds mostly made up. They keep saying they don't because there is no advantage to them naming a starter right now. It can't really help them. It is more likely to backfire or at least create even more controversy.

When the hell is Rex expected to announce the starter for the next preseason game? Anyone know?

Thanks for being a sport about it! Just havin some fun! I still think farts are funny too. Unless my wife does it. Then its just nasty.

Hit home with you did it 26? Boom!

It's what people like to talk about. It is the most controversial thing happening on the team right now. And there is a lot of man love on here for EJ whether warranted or not. He is a likable guy and some people here are in love with him. Yes in that way too. I am with you though. If you want to fire up some old Fitzpatrick threads, count me in. I'm still pissed he wasn't on this team last year.

No I am not asking or suggesting anything about spying. I can see how that is the first thing that anyone thinks of when the word "Foxboro" or "Patriots" comes up. I just generally don't like the guy. I doubt he is a bad guy. ( I don't know. I haven't followed him.) I know my dislike from him is rooted in the fact that he got his start in New England and that he played as the starter that one year and beat us. And the media reports of his continued strong connections to the guys he used to play with in New England. And my hatred for the entire Patriots organization and everything attached to them runs deep and strong. I know that the friendship thing is normal for anybody considering what an awesome part of his life it probably was for him when he was part of the New England team. I would be the same way if I was in his shoes I am sure. I just can't shake this inherent distrust of the guy. I think it is part of what holds me back in wanting him to be the starter here. It is an unwarranted lack of trust. Just wondering if anyone else felt that way too.

I still have this lingering dislike for Matt Cassel that I can only really attribute to his tight relationship with Foxboro. I know it is silly to think that way. The guy is a football player and I am sure he wants to win even if he is playing for the Bills. I just have this sense that his umbilical cord is somehow still attached to the Patriots franchise. And that makes me dislike him. I suppose if he ends up starting, then my overbearing tendency to want to hate him will fade away. Of course that only happens if the team wins with him in there. If he screws the pooch during a game, I can see some nutcase (other than me – I’m a pretty calm guy) rushing the field with fists swinging. Do you trust him? Or do you have this lingering inner dislike for him like I do because of his attachment to the Patriots?

Apparently they are satisfied with what they have seen from him in practice and the film room to be confident that he has a good grasp of the offense and can execute it to the best of his ability. I think they are keeping him sidelined because 1) they intend to start him and don't want to risk injury (unlikely) or 2) they intend to use him as a veteran presence on the sideline this year in case our young quarterback melts down during a game. (more likely) And they appreciate his ability to help the other guys develop. We will have a better idea on what their intentions are once we find out who is starting the next preseason game. If Cassel starts and he plays well, then I think he will probably start week 1. If he doesn't start, or if he starts but plays poorly then I think one of the other guys will end up starting (at this point, most likely that is Taylor).

The upside to TT is that if he is able to run for first downs on situations like 3rd and 6 plays instead of automatically assuming it is going to be a pass play, then teams are going to be forced to respect his running capabilities. That is going to make defensive backs want to leave their (receivers/coverage) a little earlier than they otherwise might in order to prevent him from ripping off yardage with his feet. And if they do that, you can bet that the passing game is going to open up more. Will TT hit those receivers then? Maybe, maybe not, but I think the odds are in his favor in those situations. He could really change defensive game plans.

Looks to me like this kid is stealing the football. Does anybody know if he actually came back? Or did he just keep running like Forest Gump?

I don't think so because they are two different positions measuring totally different things. The point I am trying to make is that most stats are rather ambiguous unless they are significantly outside the middle 68% of the bell curve. And they very rarely are. Most stats that are used to make a point on forums and talk radio and television sports commentary are stats that clearly fall within that middle 34% above or below average. And that renders them meaningless when trying to grasp what happened during that game. Analysis on a drive by drive case is the best approach in my opinion. Ultimately I suppose you would really have to measure individual players on a play by play analysis. But as this is a team sport, I think the drive analysis is the best approach for measuring offensive play quality or defensive play quality.

This is what I was thinking too. Someone suggested it means he would become a slightly above average starting quarterback. Ranked somewhere around 15. Based on that and based on his performance if the first two preseason games I would put his odds somewhere around 40% give or take 5%. I don't think we have seen the best he has to offer and I don't think we have seen his worst game yet. And we are forced to base our guesses on preseason games which kind of sucks. It is a real crap shoot. Maybe he keeps his upward trajectory. Maybe he crumbles under adversity when it happens. Who knows? At this point, just about anything is still possible.

I agree. They are useful in the right situation. Like when there is a huge number like a receiver catching a huge number of balls suggests he must have been open often. Or if a defender gets 3 sacks. But most stats like most quarterback stats and total rushing yards and things like that, are stats that are very often used to mislead people into thinking a certain way much in the same way that politicians use stats. Ultimately the score is what really matters. But second to that, what really matters is how the team performed in a given situation on each drive. (in my opinion)

I must look at football differently than most people on this forum. I look at each football game as if it is a series of smaller games. Each possession is like its own independent game. If you are on offense, your objective is to score a touchdown. If you can’t do that, then your second objective is to try to score a field goal. If you can’t do that, then your third objective is to gain as many yards in your favor as possible and put the other team at as big of a disadvantage as possible by giving them the worst field position possible. When you are on defense your objective is the exact opposite. 1) Take the ball away if possible. 2) Stop them from scoring a touchdown 3) Stop them from scoring a field goal 4) Stop them from gaining ground or even make them lost ground if you can and put your offense in the best position to be successful on their next possession. Everybody understands that. I know. The part I think is funny is that when guys are discussing how well an individual player performed or how well a unit played (offense/defense/special teams) they very often like to use the final stats at the end of the game to prove a point. In reality, the only stats that matter at the end of a game that counts is the score. Rushing yards don’t matter. Passing yards don’t matter. Completion percentages don’t matter. Sometimes they can be useful if there is a crazy high number stat or a crazy low number stat. But unless the stats show an unusually high or unusually low number, then those stats don’t really tell you anything at all about how the game played out or how anybody performed. What really matters is, when the offense had the ball during each drive, were they able to accomplish their primary objective (touchdown). If not, then were they able to accomplish their secondary objective (field goal). If not, then were they at least able to move the chains and gain field position advantage over the other team? When the defense was on the field during each drive were they able to accomplish their primary objective (turnover). Were they able to accomplish their secondary objective (prevent a touchdown). If not were they able to accomplish their third most important objective (prevent a field goal). If not were they able to stop the opponent from gaining field position? Do you look at individual drives and possessions like they are mini-games within the game? Or are you just one of these guys who cares about all of these end of game stats (other than the final score) and thinks they actually mean something? Just curious. What is your opinion?

Thank you for the link. That helps. And after reviewing the drives again, you can see that the first 3 drives under EJ pretty much flat out sucked, with the exception of the 8 yard run for a first down in the first series. His last drive does look very good. And it ended on a high note with a TD and 2 point conversion which were good plays. If that is good enough for you guys then I get it. It just isn't good enough for me. If he had moved the chains and gained 30-40 yards in 2 out of 3 of those first 3 drives, maybe I would feel great about the guy. But they just didn't move the ball well at all until that last possession. I know it is not all EJ's fault. I just don't think he was good enough. A starting quarterback should be able to move the chains a lot more consistently however he has to get it done.

They only got 1 first down there didn't they? Wouldn't they have had to reach at least the 21 for it to be 2 first downs? I thought they made it as far as the 19 yard line. But I could be wrong.

If I remember correctly, the Bills advanced the Ball all the way to their own 19 friggin yard line. Yes he kept the first set of downs alive by making a play with his feet. He deserves full credit for that. But then the next 3 plays led to a punt which resulted in the Browns still having better field position than they should have. Getting the ball to your own 19 yard line is not something to brag about even if you start at your own 1/2 yard line. Sorry. It's not. And please don't treat me like an EJ hater. I'm not. I just don't think he is good enough to challenge for a starting position. Maybe he will be some day. As of right now, I don't think he is that close.

What does that have to do with tonight's game? Apples and oranges.

I am honestly trying to be objective. It feels like you guys are seeing what you want to see instead of what is really happening out there. How does EJ inspire any confidence in you at all after that performance. Honestly? I don't get it. One good drive once in a while is not good enough for me. I want a QB that can move the chains and help you win the field position battle. EJ certainly didn't do that tonight. Maybe I am crazy. It seems you guys think so. I just don't see it at all. I find my faith in him as a quarterback is worse after tonight certainly not better.