Brandon

There's plenty of evidence that they're fake. Its all a matter of whether one finds that evidence credible or not. Personally, I think the fact that I can (and have) make an exact copy of it using my MS word at default settings, among other issues, is pretty damning, at least to me. Equally damaging is the fact that everyone who knew Killian first hand and are some way tied to this story appear to be denying their authenticity. Its not a closed-case just yet, but to this point, I'm fairly convinced that they are fake. My gut feeling on it is that this was cooked up by some low-level DNC staffer (with some pretty marginal forgery skills, I might add) who thought he/she/it would be doing the party a big favor. I actually don't hold it against the Kerry campaign or the DNC for that reason (I haven't seen any evidence yet that anyone at the top was involved), but I suspect it will hurt them.

And if that's not enough, this should probably put the final nail in this story's coffin: http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/spec...004/9633814.htm?

Here's a little more fuel to the fire. It appears that CBS may have been manipulating some of the people involved. At the very least, here's one that feels 'misled': http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/No.../Noted_Now.html Hey CBS... :I starred in Brokeback Mountain:

OK, so if these are indeed forgeries, should CBS have to reveal the source?

Damn it, don't smear Kerry by mentioning his Senate record!

BTW, here's a little info that wasn't included in the original article that I find a bit interesting and could be very relevant: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq37-1.htm

And your point is? I never once said that I believed Bush's story either. I do, however, believe that many liberals cross the line when they bash Bush simply for joining the National Guard, as if joining the NG is somehow dishonoring their country.

OK, since Bush joined the National Guard, he hid behind his daddy and didn't serve, is that it? You're painting with an awfully broad brush there, my liberal friend.

No disagreement there. I don't think either side is being completely truthful, though I tend to believe the Swift Boat vets a bit more simply because of their strength in numbers. I can't completely discount that many guys saying this about him. But as for Kerry vs Bush... I'll be holding my nose as I vote for the latter this year, though luckily I do consider him a significantly better candidate than Kerry. That said, I was hoping Lieberman would win the Dem nomination. I probably would have voted for him.

His position on the Vietnam war would have nothing to do with whether he actually got the silver star or not. But you said that the Secretary of the Navy would not be able to remember it after 30 years. I simply stated that I'm not so sure. Again, Kerry was an important figure in the anti-war movement, and its entirely possible that he made enough of an impression on Lehman that he could remember him later in life. But you're right, there's no real concrete evidence of it. All you have is the word of either Kerry or his detractors and who you believe largely depends upon your own political affiliation. Perhaps Kerry should release his military records in their entirety and clear up this matter once and for all.

I would normally agree with you, but John Kerry was not just any soldier. John Kerry came home and led a major movement against US policy in Vietnam. For that reason, a person like Lehman might very well remember Kerry and any citations he may or may not have given him. BTW, at least in this article, there's nothing said about Lehman simply not remembering the citation. In fact, his denial of the citation seems pretty emphatic, to the point that I believe he remembers Kerry quite well.

This just keeps getting better and better: http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips28.html

It could be a blessing in disguise. Granted, he'll miss out on preseason play, but on the flipside, he'll be able to fully concentrate on the mental aspects of the game for the next several weeks. That could be a huge plus for him.