Kirby Jackson

Lol, I haven’t broken down each snap of every WR. If you have some information that disputes this please feel free to share. If not, it sounds like you only want to see information that supports your hopes and feelings. That’s not a strong way to analyze performance. P.S. I can find a similar chart from Coleman in college that is even worse looking.

This is tricky for me because I wasn’t a Coleman guy coming out. I had a lot of guys over him (Worthy being one). I think Ladd McConkey would have been the right pick for his consistent ability to get open. I thought that skill set was way more important than a jump ball guy. I thought that they needed someone that could handle volume and win his matchups when things were tough like last week. Unfortunately, that appears to be true. Worthy’s explosiveness would have added an element to the Bills. He’s good and going to be good. Coleman has been a little better than I expected but that’s not a huge endorsement. He has good body control and can get down the field. This was my concern though and he’s living up to it:

I’m not trying to denigrate anyone. I’m also not trying to see anyone comparing Schobel to Bruce. Kelly was very good. He played with an elite team. He was to the Bills as Goff is to the Lions. That’s not an insult. That’s a top 7ish QB. That who Kelly was. The Bills rarely won BECAUSE of him. They almost always win BECAUSE of Josh. Winning with someone and winning because of them aren’t the same. If someone believes Kelly is better, I’m going to continue challenging, “based on what?” Team record isn’t an acceptable answer. Kelly is the 2nd best QB in Bills history and one of the 3 most important players they’ve ever had. He’s not their best QB.

That’s fair. If we want to give them an extended look over the next couple of weeks I’m cool. At this point, neither should be out there in the big moments unless we don’t have a choice.

No he’s not. You show me a list that has him there. He’s borderline top 25. He’s Moon or Aikman. Josh is trending towards top 5 and will be top 10. Allen is MILES ahead of Kelly. I do remember the early 90’s teams well. They were like a better version of the current Eagles with Jim Kelly playing the role of Jalen Hurts. They had the best 2 way back in the game and an elite defense with a DPOY candidate. They had an elite number 1 WR and a great OL. They won a lot. The current Eagles are a great comparison. I had both Shaw and Sestak, along with Ernie Warlick on my list. I’m not ignoring them. The 90’s teams are the best teams though. You’re a great poster. I’m not going to debate on Christmas. I saw every game each played and the gap is wide. If both, in their primes, were on the same team, it wouldn’t be a QB competition. Allen is way ahead of Kelly in terms of impact. Kelly was what Jalen Hurts is to the Eagles.

Nope. Elam is too handsy and Bishop isn’t very good. I’m cool without either of them playing. I’d rather Ingram and an old Micah Hyde. You can work on developing Bishop in the offseason and probably need to find a new home for Elam.

Agree again!! Bruce was incredible. Prior to this season he was the best Bills player that I ever saw. I think that I have Allen ahead of him now because of positional value but it’s close. Those ‘90’s teams were far and away the most talented teams in the history of the franchise. They, along with those Cowboys teams in the later years of the run, were the most talented teams in the NFL (and by a lot). Wait so you have Kelly over Allen but didn’t see Kelly?!? 😂😂😂 Nevermind, it sounds like you were told some pretty incredible tales of that era. I’m not here to confirm nor deny the existence of the tooth fairy. Merry Christmas!!

With all due respect, the nostalgia of what Kelly’s teams accomplished, is far beyond the quality of Kelly as a player. He’s not in Allen’s league. It’s just not a reasonable opinion, at this point to believe that he’s a superior player. This list is the BEST players at each position in Bills history not THE MOST IMPORTANT (even still an argument could be made that Allen was more important). That’s an important distinction. Let me ask it a little differently, “if prime Kelly and prime Allen were both on this team now, who would start?” What about, “if prime Kelly and prime Allen were both on those early 1990’s teams? Who would start?” When you do it like that there isn’t a logical argument to make for Kelly. He was very good. He was ELITE at operating that system. There’s a guy in the AFCE that is very good and elite at operating his system. It’s not Allen, Rodgers or Maye. I’m not saying that Kelly is Tua. Of course, he’s way better than that but you get the point. There’s a massive difference in guys that you win with vs. guys that you win because of. You won because of Kelly sometimes, like you do Jalen Hurts. Often, the quality of his roster overwhelms teams. It’s extremely rare that the quality of the Bills roster overwhelms teams if Allen isn’t at least very good. Both teams win a lot.

That’s just such a lazy argument. If you drop Allen onto that roster they win 2 or 3 of those 4 (and probably go the Ronnie Harmon year as well). Kelly was the steward of an unbelievable offense. Josh Allen is an unbelievable offense. The gap between them is quite wide.

QB: Allen RB: OJ WR: Reed WR: Moulds WR: Diggs OT: Dawkins OT: Wolford G: Joe D G: Billy Shaw C: Kent Hull TE: Ernie Warlick DE: Bruce DT: Tom Sestak DT: Kyle Williams DE: Schobel OLB: Biscuit MLB: Cowart OLB: Takeo CB: Clements CB: Winfield S: Jones S: Poyer KR: McGee K: Christie P: Moorman ST: Tasker This is based on their Bills careers. Obviously Peters and TO were historically great players. There are some that were tough (CB for example).

Honestly, anyone arguing any other way at this point is just wrong. Jim Kelly would admit that. The gap from Allen to Kelly is wide. Allen, Bruce, Moorman and probably Andre (based on a 3 WR set) should be unanimous. You could make a reasonable argument for multiple people at every other position.

That was a pretty horrendous performance. It’s nice that over the last few years we have had some games that we all hated and the results were still a win. That’s a long way from the moral victories of the 2000’s. Nonetheless it was a pretty pitiful performance. Lots to work on but thankful it still resulted in a W.

Lol, I tweeted almost the exact same thing at the time. As soon as I heard the SEC chant I knew that they were locked in. That Michigan game was telling. He was scared to death. Can’t trust him over the next few games but if the offense plays like that it might not matter.

🗑️

That was someone else’s quote. I’m assuming it’s Miami maybe?

I liked SMU today. I thought IU would get buried. This has been a bit eye opening though. If these games are any indication the “eye test” is going to be more prevalent moving forward. 12 best > 12 most deserving. Alabama would have beaten IU & SMU by 3+ TDs.

I mean, I don’t care but they should probably be combined.

Please show up tonight. Play to win and attack. If the OL holds up the Bucks win by 2 scores.

SMU is my upset of the week. I expected ND to bury IU.

Is this different than the one on the college football page?

Lol, what are we doing here? 😂 They weren’t “better for Josh Allen.” They are playing their roles fine. Let’s not do this. That’s not a rational opinion. If you were to just make it about Gabe an argument could be made (certainly for Coleman). In a down year, Diggs was by 4,000 miles the best receiver of that group regardless of attitude/personality.

I said that the WRs were bottom 3 in the NFl. I don’t necessarily believe that was wrong pre-Amari. In fact, the numbers would probably support it from those 8 games. The numbers in the 6 games with him vs. the 8 games without him are way different. Allen may throw for 4,000 yards without a receiver over 1,000 yards. Shakir is their top producer and he’s 29th in yards. Keon is next and he’s 76th. Keep in mind that is the production with the MVP at QB, arguably the top OC in football, a really good running game and a top 5 OL.

2023 Diggs & Davis combined per game: 14 targets 9 receptions 113.5 yards per game & .88 Tds 2024 Hollins & Coleman combined per game: 6.7 targets 4 receptions 69 yards per game & .66 TDs If you prefer 2024 Hollins/Coleman to 2023 Diggs/Davis I can no longer engage in this conversation as if you were objective on the subject. Diggs and Davis regressed in 2023. They are light years ahead of those 2 in 2024.

It certainly works that everyone can make plays. That’s what they want. I’m suggesting 3rd and 8, down 5, late to KC, Amari is the first look. That’s because he is most likely to “win” his rep. For years he’s been an elite route runner. Shakir finds space as does Kincaid. They will be the next looks if Allen doesn’t take off.

Fair The original point was that the “WRs quietly got better.” They didn’t. I am on record that they were a bottom 3 group prior to the Cooper deal. I’m not sure that was wrong. They were too limited. One player, at the top of the depth chart, changed the entire room. He may not end up as the most targeted but on 3rd and 7 when someone needs to “go win” it’s going to be Cooper that they look to. That’s a part of his value. It isn’t about volume. It’s about the ability to change team’s game plans and to open up space for everyone else. It has worked.