Kirby Jackson
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Posts posted by Kirby Jackson
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1 hour ago, White Linen said:
You don't know last year's group was way better. Would you agree that Samuel is a WR that can fill the volume left from Gabe's departure? Regardless of not running the seam route.
Shakir stepped up his volume when Gabe's dropped. Understand now?
As of today, they are. That’s not really debatable. I think that Samuel can fill Gabe’s volume. I also think that he’s going to see a handful of carries. I’m an Ohio State fan and love the player. He’s more playmaker than pure WR.
Shakir had 24 targets once Brady took over. That extrapolated is 58 targets on the year. As I said, he absolutely did not handle volume last year. Understand now?
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42 minutes ago, Mat68 said:
Shakir was praised for his route running coming out. Samuel is very good vs man. Washington operates on the field in the same area as Shakir and Samuel. Kind of a redundant player. Both Isabella and Hamler would have made it hard for Washington to catch on imo.
Depending on match up and look Shakir, Coleman, or Samuel can run a go route. 10.7 is not bad when you take into account what Samuel offers at and behind the LOS. The offense doesnt have a deep threat. I do think any of the guys can make plays down field. All have shown that ability. Would also like to see Kincaid and Coleman down the seem. I see Coleman doing all the Davis stuff but offers more underneath with better athleticism and route running upside.
I agree that they absolutely are primarily slot guys. I was simply saying that he offers a skill set that they do not currently have.
I also think that you’re right, that it’ll be a few different guys down the field. If Coleman can be a more reliable Gabe, he will be a good pickup. Gabe’s issue was that he was so limited in the routes that he ran well. To this point, Coleman has similar struggles. He’s young though and has lots of upside.
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7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:
also, sure his contract expired but at that tier, a team can basically own the decision with any modest offer. So that he’s here means they definitely let him walk.
not to speak for Kirby but I think sometimes there are a few of us that express frustration and people read that as 3-14 doom and gloom instead of unlikely to overtake the champion and win one ourselves doom and gloom.
I fully expect us to be very competitive as long as Josh holds up in one piece. Though I think we will need to ask him to shoulder more and for longer to make results happen this year and that’s worrisome.
Exactly!!
I still think that the Bills win 11+ games and probably the division. I just don’t see them closer to a championship. Josh will need to be Superman but I fully expect him to be.
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5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:
I find it hard to believe that Brady will not send different WRs deep. Someone will get 9 routes.
It's true that Shakir only had 45 targets, but he caught 39 balls. He also hasn't had an interception against him in his 2 years in Buffalo.
Gabe had 81 targets but only 45 catches (6 more than Shakir). 6. 6 is also the magic number of interception that Gabe gave up each of
the last 2 years for a total of 12.
I had high hopes for Gabe Davis, but they did not come true. Overall, Davis did not produce enough and had a lot of drive killing INTs and drops.
His production and benefit to the team can easily be made up with another WR on this team.
They’ll have to run some. The question is who?
The Shakir point was a response to, “he handled volume last year.” He didn’t handle volume at all. He was very efficient but on a low target number. I like Shakir a lot and believe that he’s the best WR on the team. Saying that he had volume last year just isn’t true.
Gabe wasn’t very good and I didn’t want him back. He did do a couple of things well (primarily get down the field when Josh broke free). We can make up for his production but can we offset his big play ability? That remains to be seen.
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1 hour ago, White Linen said:
Gabe could run particular routes sure, but in 8 games he had 2 catches or less. That's not handling volume. Diggs is everything you've said but something broke and he lost his, want to, for this team. His volume faded as the numbers prove that out.
I won't go so far as to say, we're definitely better, at WR but I think we are. We've addressed the position and there's a lot of, let's see. It's a wildly different approach/group for sure.
Shakir and Kincaid provided volume last year, which was an issue, not a strength.
In terms of Gabe, the question was, “who now runs the 9 route?”
Shakir had 45 targets!! What are you talking about that he handled volume??? Kincaid had 91 targets. If you take just the Brady games it was 40. If you extrapolate that across the season it’s 97 targets.
The WR room last year wasn’t good enough. It was way better than this group. Now if Coleman is good and Shakir continues to develop they can be an average WR room. At the moment, they’re inarguably in the bottom 3.
14 minutes ago, Mat68 said:If he is perceived to be those things Washington would not be a 6th round pick. Shakir and Samuel operate in a very similar manner but with more size. Coleman was a style of Wr Allen has not had in some time. With how defenses are playing them that style could be more productive than slamming a go route into 2 high.
What are you talking about? Why wouldn’t he have been a 6th? He’s little and has short arms, but he’s quick, twitchy and productive. He would have more value on the Bills than on many other teams because we lack that skill set. Neither Shakir nor Samuel are twitchy route runners. They’re converted RBs that are good with the ball in their hands.
You have to throw go routes on occasion. If you don’t throw the ball down the field you’re going to see 11 man boxes. It’ll be tough to run, tough to throw those quick screens that Brady likes and difficult for Josh to find space to take off. And before you say, “yeah but Samuel runs a 4.31” he has a career YPC of 10.7 yards.
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9 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:
Good catch and agreed. I would swap Lee Evans for TO.Based on what? This isn’t just directed at you but I’m trying to understand how TO isn’t on every list. He’s 3rd all-time in yards (ahead of Randy Moss) and TDs.
Anyone that doesn’t have TO I’d love to hear the reasoning (other than he was with the Bills for 1 year and wasn’t great here).
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9 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:
Choosing TO feels like a cheat given his end of career sole season in Buffalo, but it has to be him and Mario Williams if talking players in their primes
Yep, TO is a top 5 WR all-time. He is 3rd all-time in receiving yards and 3rd all-time in receiving TDs. WR is obviously the Bills biggest need. If it is “any guy in their prime” he’s obvious.
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If it is the player in their prime (even if it wasn’t with the Bills) it is TO and Mario Williams. If it is their prime had to be with the Bills Moulds and Mario.
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45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
When I read this I thought "whoa that's a bit bold for what would have been a rookie 5th rounder." And then I thought about it and I think you are right. Which kinda tells its own story. It isn't about Malik. It is about the fact that this WR corps by any measure is missing a fair few elements that you'd like to have.
Yep. They’ve improved in a couple of areas (mainly size and run after the catch) but took a big step back elsewhere. Diggs was a surgeon as a route runner. They don’t have anyone with route running as a strength. Gabe was flawed but could run the 9. I’m not sure who is supposed to fill that role?
One of my biggest gripes with this group is that I don’t believe that they can handle volume. To handle volume, you need to be a separator. Guys like Beasley and Diggs got the ball a lot because they were open. I think Kincaid will take some of that but not nearly enough. Coleman doesn’t appear to be a volume guy. He feels more like a guy that will catch some fades and crossers. Samuel will see a bunch of touches but I think it’ll be a combination of runs, screens and a few other routes
I think that Washington / Ladd McConkey skill set is an important one. You need someone that can run those possession routes. Kincaid is going to have a ton of pressure on him because he is going to have to be that guy.
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9 hours ago, Beck Water said:
I don't at all see it as a forgone conclusion that Malik Washington, or any other late round rookie, would play 40% of the snaps, but you could walk me through your reasoning and help me see it.
The way I see it, the last few years, the Bills have been heavily a 1,1 team. Maybe 65-70% 11.
But I think the "tea leaves" say that may change.
-Shakir averaged 68% and that's lowered by 2 games where we barely passed and he was only on the field 50% of the time. I think it's a good guess they want that to go up. The Bills seem to think Shakir can play a bit outside, or in the Bunch formations Brady loved with LSU, so I don't expect to see him coming off too much.
-Ditto Samuel - he was a 68% guy under Brady in Carolina
-I think they're going to want Coleman to get on the field and let him take his growing pains and lumpsNow let's say for the sake of argument that's 70% of the snaps.
-Kincaid was on the field 58% of the time, and I think most people feel he's earned an increase.-But if they want a TE who can block in-line, and block downfield as opposed to get in the way, that would be Knox. So if you don't want to pull Kincaid off the field, that would mean 22 sets. I would love to know what our % 22 set was after Brady took over - anyone? It wouldn't shock me to see us play 20% 12 next season.
-After Brady took over, Gilliam played an average of 7% of the snaps, so we were either in 2,1 or 2,2 7% of the time
-Last 4 seasons, Mack Hollins has a low of 27% of the snaps (MIA) and a high of 94% (LVR). Last year with Atlanta 39%. So who knows, but because of his blocking chops, don't expect to see him much lower than 30%, I think. That might fill in for any breathers Coleman and Shakir need.
Basically, I think there's room for a 4th WR to get in the field, but I don't see it being a 5th round rookie (even if he was a fantasmagorical blocker in college), and I don't think it's gonna be 40% of the snaps. And I think a 5th round rookie would be more likely than not to be "Shortered".
What did you think of the year PFF ranked Tyrod Taylor in their top-10 QB with Buffalo? I'm not blanket dissing off PFF, but I don't think one really should put too much weight in their player rankings, OL grades, or DL grades for example.
Specific to Malik Washington, he has a skill set that the Bills roster currently does not have. He’s incredibly twitchy and gets out of his breaks quickly. That was Diggs. He could find space and because of that could handle volume. It’s a little bit of Beasley. Washington is little but on this roster he had a chance to play and to climb the depth chart. He would be the best pure route runner on the team imo. He would have played over Hollins.
I don’t treat PFF as the Bible but at the same time it’s as good as most. The point being that their list of the top 101 players isn’t a travesty. You could probably nitpick a handful of guys here or there. It’s not like the Bills had 4 or 5 guys that were screwed by not being on there. They had 1 guy make the list.
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51 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:
Trash take of seeing the Deion Kobe’s signing as filling out the 90 and it. It being a wr is not a big deal? Are you for real? Sorry I offended you
Not offended!! We actually agree that Deion Jones used to be really good. He’s now a PS guy on the worst team in the league. If he makes the team, fine, but he isn’t the same guy that went to the Pro Bowl in 2017.
The 🗑️ part is about anybody wanting more warm bodies at WR. They have fine depth. That depth is just expected to start. I don’t need to add Chase Claypool to a camp battle with Shorter, Isabella and Hamler. We don’t need more trash in that room (especially a cancer like Claypool). The Bills need to address the top of the depth chart there, not the bottom. They are not okay at the position and throwing more scrub vets at it isn’t solving anything.
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11 hours ago, HaldimandBills said:
Patriots - two prospects rated worse than Coleman. Bourne whose amounted to nothing and Juju. Sure.
Chargers - not much more to be said
Broncos - unless you think Sutton carries the entire load.
Cardinals - Unless Marvin Harrison Jr to you makes up an entire receiving unit.
Giants - Isiah Mckenzie might be their third best receiver. No thanks
Panthers - Much rather have Samuel Coleman and Shakir over Thielen.
Thats being conservative. When Coleman, Shakir and Samuel combine for 2200 yards will see how this all shakes out.
Panthers? 😂😂 Dionte Johnson, Thielen, Legette and Mingo is worse than what we have? 😂😂 Um, no, that’s not even up for discussion.
Giants have Nabers & the Cards have MHJ. They have alphas that you need to account for. They are better because of that.
Broncos - they are similar but slightly better. We can call Franklin and Coleman a wash. Sutton, Reynolds and Mims > Shakir, Samuel and Hollins. If Shakir keeps developing the Bills could be better than Denver.
The Pats are similar but I have them ahead. Bourne is better than anyone that the Bills have as of today. Juju has had success. Baker and Polk are two bites at the apple with the same chance at success as Coleman. I think that most objective people would have the Pats over the Bills but it’s reasonable either way.
The Chargers are in the same boat. They just added Chark (who some here wanted). I like McConkey over Coleman but the rest of the Bills over the Chargers. This could reasonably go either way.
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9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:
Love that expression 😂😂
9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:
I wouldn’t put value in PFF grades.Ed Oliver was a top 100 player last year and PFF has him out of the top 50 interior DL.
Milano is absolutely a top 101 player. He might be the best WLB in the NFL.
James Cook was 3rd in All Purpose Yards.
Taron Johnson might be the best slot corner.
We have potential to have several players in the top 100 this upcoming year.
Allen, Kincaid, Cook, Torrence, Milano, Johnson, Oliver and Bernard all have that potential.
I don’t disagree that there are some guys that could be on there (specifically Taron). At the end of the day though, the people that grade it the closest, thought that the Bills only had 1 of the top 101 players in the NFL. That’s wild for a 2 seed (and a credit to Josh).
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10 hours ago, Beck Water said:
Kirby, Kirby, Kirby. I can go with you that it's more important to have top starting WR than to have top starting off-ball LB. The fact that the Bills were able to splice together an adequate Milano replacement from a combo of Dodson, Poyer, and Rapp that allowed them to have a sound defense speaks to that.
"INFINITELY" in all caps? Mmmmm I think what the Bills defense looked like in the playoffs while we were playing The Ghost of AJ Klein and One Winged Dodson, would show that's not true.
So you're upset because the Bills valued a potential backup LB and STer over a WR drafted 24 slots later (meaning 2/3 of the league didn't see him as "significant snaps with upside") and 56 slots later (meaning all of the league didn't see him as "significant snaps with upside" and then again 2/3 again)?
Mmmm Ok, if those guys turn into Puka Nacua or even play significant snaps for Miami and Dallas, I will come back here and give you your props.
I think the Cold Hard Football Facts are that a backup LB who plays ST is more likely to play meaningful snaps this season, especially with the Bills having moved on from 2 ST stalwarts at LB. And if the Bills are counting on a 6th round rookie WR for significant snaps with upside, then we really haven't done enough to address WR.
Which actually, I'm concerned about, but I can't get all fluffy about taking a LB over a WR late in the 5th.
The issue is that, on this team, Malik Washington (for example) would play 40% of the offensive snaps (and more with an injury). Ulofoshio is, at best, the 4th or 5th off the ball LB. He will play special teams if he dresses. So they took a guy, that will play less, at a less important position. That’s stupid.
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21 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
I agree with the final point, that the Bills have at times had a lot of well paid depth. It gave them one of the deepest rosters in football but it definitely limited their ability at times to pursue bigger ticket items in FA.... although can be argued the one time they did it hasn't exactly worked out. In a year where they have decided to take some pain on the cap they are knowingly trying to reduce that amount. It's a strategy I support.
PFF did their top 101 players of 2023 a couple of months ago. The Bills had 1 guy on the list. They were the 2 seed in the AFC. They lack top end talent and have suffered from it. Josh covers so many problems with this team. We have had rosters full of overpaid grinders. Hopefully his reset changes the way that the Bills allocate resources. Fill the depth with cheap labor and pay for the top of the roster.
21 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:Pot meet kettle
My jersey is already hanging in the rafters homie. You’re the one trying to make a name for yourself. That trash take isn’t going to get you there.
21 hours ago, HaldimandBills said:Whose trying to convince who of what? Offensive Tackle is every bit as important as receiver and to say its not close is not close to correct. Now if you want to have a conversation how overrated poorly run teams like the Dolphins have thrown crazy money at receiver while smart run teams like the Packers, Chiefs, Ravens keep investing in their oline and defense over receiver thats a different conversation. There is a reason OT were flying off the board 1st round. No one is saying receiver isn't important. It clearly is in the next position group of importance after QB with Dend and OT.
What would you like the Bills to do? Throw a 3rd or 4th round pick at receiver? Maybe it's just me but I'd like to see our QB having to do less QB sneaks because we have no RB who was useful in the short run game. I'd like our rotational DT to actually sustain pressure in the playoffs rather than be stonewalled.
Our receiver group is not bottom 3. You keep saying this but it isnt true. Bills were predicted to win the Superbowl in 2022 with Isiah Mckenzie as our slot and Gabe Davis as our # 2. This Bills receiver group is better simply by the fact Kincaid is also part of the group by every metric outside of his position title. Kincaid and Knox will be on the field together a lot and Kincaid won't be lined up as a Tight End. I agree the Bills need to add someone post June 1st. I disagree with Bills fans pretending the sky is falling because they didnt draft a 2nd receiver in the mid rounds. To be upset for a budget linebacker signing now when you know the Bills have 10 million coming their way soon for receiver seems kind of silly.
If it “isn’t correct” list the 3 that are worse and be prepared to defend it…
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4 hours ago, gjv said:
Bills just added another large receiver Chris Claypool to a room of Coleman, Shavers, Hollis, and Shorter. It makes me think that McDermott and Brady are thinking about expanding on their 52% run vs pass.
Anytime that you can take the ball out of Josh Allen’s hands you gotta do it
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Just got a text from my buddy who is the Bears scout. I’m trying to post it but it’s too large. At any rate, it is Schefter’s post about the signing and then:
him: 🥴
me: gross
him: he’s been a locker room cancer everywhere that he’s been
take it fwiw-
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11 minutes ago, HaldimandBills said:
Linebacker 6 with the new kick off rule is more important than receiver 6. Receiver 1 through 3 is more important than linebacker 1 through 3. Although Bernard and Milano are pretty damn important. As we witnessed when both went out.
Bills did address the 2nd most important positions in football by drafting a defensive end and Offensive Tackle.
I’ll be okay calling pass rusher as the 2nd most important position. Offensive tackle is nowhere near as important as WR. Again, look at the contracts being signed right now. We try to convince ourselves that areas that we are good at are more important than areas that we aren’t good at.
Importance of position:
QB - Bills are elite
WR - Bills are bottom 3
DL (all inclusive) - Bills are average with talent but may get results with volume
CB - Bills average to goodOT - Bills good
C - Bills average (although Van Pran could be a steal)
S - Bills average
RB - Bills are above average
LB - Bills are elite if Milano is healthy
OG - Bills average to above average
ST - Bills are average
4 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:Thanks for admitting that. Its filling out the 90...this is literally a nothing signing. You prefer 25 WR's who run reps at LB in camp I guess.
Who said that? Don’t make stuff up to strengthen your 🗑️ perspective.
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23 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:
I contend you don't know what the word "INFINTIELY" means. Go Bills...to infinity and beyond!
Sweet comeback bro!!
If you like signing LBs that were pro bowlers in 2017 and, PS players in 2023, cool. I prefer to address the 2nd most important position in football, for a team that has the worst WR room in the NFL. To each their own 🍻
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6 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:
So 15M vs 30M....2X - infinite? I am not arguing LB is more important than WR, we agree on which is more important. But reacting to a low end signing filling out the 90 man roster because they signed a LB and its not a WR is irrational. If they signed a off ball LB to a big contract I would agree.
Yes, WRs are INFINTIELY more important than off the ball LBs.
We do agree that a guy competing for the 6th LB isn’t a big deal. I think that a WR competing for the 6th WR spot isn’t a big deal either. I do understand why some people might be frustrated though. If the thinking is, “it feels like we have spent a lot more time reworking the bottom of the LB depth chart, than the top of the WR depth chart” that’s fair.
I understand that their were limited resources but I have hard time justifying a ST, off the ball LB, that will be 5th or 6th on your depth chart over Malik Washington & Ryan Fluornoy who might have played significant snaps at WR with upside. You were (and still are) desperate at WR but have prioritized off the ball LB depth.
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1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:
$16M may be reasonable for the guy, but not for the Bills present cap situation, particularly in a year where they are making a conscious effort to clear up the cap so they can go back to normal operations next year.
Also don't think the Bears get rid of him.
The likelihood is that if they bring in another guy he'll prolly be in the Beckham - Chark salary range of around $5M or so.
Chark signed with the Chargers.
You can’t get DJ Moore because the Bears will never move him. If he were on the market, the Bills should ABSOLUTELY push in their chips. That IS the kind of guy that you clear your cap position to chase. DJ Moore is coming off a year of 96 receptions, 1,364 yards and 8 TDs with Justin Fields as his QB. What’s the point of having cap space if you wouldn’t use it on that guy?!? 😂😂
It doesn’t matter though as he isn’t available. It was just a weird comment to say, “pass on DJ Moore at $16M because we need to clear our cap situation but go ahead and give DJ Chark $6M.”
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1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:
They continue to sign wrs of about the same caliber as the off ball lbs. the difference is obsession with wrs.
It’s an infinitely more important position. Look at the contracts of off the ball LBs compared to WR. Additionally, the top of the LB room >>>>> the top of the WR room
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The Bills are zigging while everyone else zags. Most teams would love to sign a guy that started his career on the practice squad and developed into a Pro Bowler in year 7. Not the Bills, they sign a guy that was a Pro Bowler 7 years ago that developed into a PS player on the worst team in the league last year. 4D chess
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3 hours ago, FireChans said:
OSU Kyle McCord fan.
Lol, that isn’t me!! That guy had NO business playing at OSU.
Deion Jones signed to 1-year deal per Schefter
in The Stadium Wall
Posted · Edited by Kirby Jackson
This you?
I jumped in when you said, “Shakir provided volume last year.” He didn’t. You then talked about it picking up when Gabe went backwards. It didn’t really. The ball was thrown to Gabe more than Shakir even under Brady. Shakir never had volume. He had 45 targets. No one questioned his efficiency.
The question is, “will he be as good with significantly more targets and significantly more defensive attention?” We don’t know that answer. We do know that he hasn’t handled volume despite you claiming otherwise.