The Dean

I understand the point. But I simply don't think losing to get a draft pick is an intelligent approach. You may bet that great player, but as an organization you haven't built a winning philosophy. You risk alienating the players on the team now --these are young guys who need to learn to win, not lose--so you fail to establish the culture of winning. Winning is contagious as is losing. Good players, and good coaches are wired to try to win. How do you go about telling them to lose? Your fans in the arena deserve to see the team trying to win, every night. And, winning this year is the best predictor of winning next year. Check it out. Furthermore, if I was in charge of an organization and someone advised us to lose a/some games, for whatever reason, I'd fire him/her on the spot. If I was a violent man, I might punch the crap out of him, too---but I'm not. There are few things more repugnant to me.

Well if he played the card, you are right. But we have ZERO evidence he ever played that card. Or did I miss something?

Rats? Like pandas are just big racoons? And Tom, plastiscene is that modeling clay from the 60's/70's. Don't you remember when Eastern Africa was covered with the stuff? Terrible tragedy.

When it would have been John Lennon's 70th birthday, there was a radio program asking "What would Lennon be like today?" I thought to myself. "He'd be yelling. 'Turn down that music, you punks. And pull up your pants!'" Old guy stuff.

I have no issue with Bill being a consultant, or a short term exec, in charge of Football Operations. Either works for me. But Whaley should stay as GM, IMO.

Good info. Thanks. I wonder if recovering from his knee injury hampered his times and his ability to come in and play his rookie season. The Docs said it was fine (which is good news) but that doesn't mean he was ready to perform at his best. I hope so, too. Nobody really knows if he will or wont. But the best option is if he ends up being fine.

Be nice to Ted.

Am I missing something here? He has never mentioned the 3-day clause and isn't playing games in the press. He seems to just be doing business as usual. Isn't that answer enough?

Correct. EJ was more raw coming into the NFL. It was fairly common knowledge he needed time to acclimate and grow. The injury to Kolb in preseason short-circuited that plan. Winston is more pro-ready. Other differences. EJ is by all accounts, a hard worker, a team guy and a guy you'd be proud to lead your team, if he pans out as a starter. Winston is seemingly a punk. I would never be sure the guy would be at the game or suspended or in jail. He fights openly with his HC on the sidelines and has pushed a ref. While he shown a bit more accuracy, he has also shown the ability to completely break down and throw multiple interceptions. You pick your poison. Neither is a perfect QB.

I will when I get back home, Dave.

I'm not sure I'd use Walter as a credible source. But I don't think people are arguing Winston isn't a talented QB.. He is. Although for "the next big thing" he played some horrendous first half ball, this year. I don't recall EJ ever making the kind of bad throws Winston made, on occasion, this year. Of course he made some very good ones, too. But recall when he was accused of throwing a 1st half for a friend. Nothing came of that, but I saw that level of play in more than one game. Interception city. But Walter comparing him to Luck is preposterous. Luck was a sure thing, Manningesque in that he had talent and character. There was almost no chance getting a big payday would go to his head. Who knows with Winston? Lots of talented guys don't make it in the NFL. Hell, some can't make it through college. I doubt Winston would be in the discussion had he picked the wrong college, as he would have been benched, or tossed out, due to his poor off field behavior. I have the same concerns I had with Manzeil, but at least Winston has some real talent.

Quickness is far more important in an OL than speed. Show me his 5-yard, or 10-yard time.

In this case, I think the real damning evidence is that, after the event, Suh just walked away. Let's say it was an accident. Suh had to know he just stepped on someone, and that someone was likely Rodgers. Did he turn to see if Rodgers was OK. Did he make a "dude I'm sorry" reaction after this "accident"? Nope. he just walked away. Never looked back. This is a guy with a history of dirty play, who always says those plays were unintentional. Perhaps he might be more believable if he acted like someone who was sorry for what happened, immediately after it happened. Sorry, I cant' say what his intentions were, I'm not a mind reader. But history isn't on his side, and neither was his immediate reaction after stepping on someone. I'd have suspended him longer.

Seriously. Drafting Winston with a high 1st rounder is a SERIOUSLY risky move. The kid could be in jail before the 2015 season starts. You don't waste high picks on guys like this and you certainly don't trade away future high picks for the dishonor.

No kidding. But some on this board have a sports-talk/sports-forum mentality. They love to cry BUST! Probably because they don't get to see the real thing, if you get my drift. Was the guy a disappointment this year? Sure was. But he was a rookie who didn't get it year one. Doesn't mean he can't recover from that. Hope he does. Was he active for games? I don't remember. But you aren't going to activate him if you aren't certain he can play effectively (even on this years shaky line). Hard to get a few plays in if you are active on gameday.

I'm having trouble with this conclusion. Because a team typically only has a few picks, they often have to choose between several players they like, in most any round. Doesn't mean they thought the guy they passed on had no shot at being good in the NFL.

Pimp your favorite college QB here.

Didn't the Jets already contract with him? They seem to be using every ex GM as a consultant. And we know Woody is a football GENIUS.

A happy player should be a good thing, no?

Is Michael Sam a FA already?

Every time I see the title of this thread I think "Which Monday?"

Plus a national championship. I can't believe any metrics would disagree. This guy was a solid analytics pick by most any measure.

Might be the avatar.

Well, he is dreamy. Did Whaley look stoned, as usual? The guy has those whacked out stoner eyes.

He is better than an average NFL QB, if you count ALL the QBs in the league. You are probably thinking only of starters.