ToGoGo

Best summary I've seen yet. After a game I close my eyes, clear my mind, and try to figure out the "story" of the game and why we won or lost. All I could think about was that we were the better team and we came out there unprepared. We got outblocked in the run game and kept making dumb mistakes at inopportune times. I'm not one to blame the coach usually, but I think this ones on Rex.

Really, really unlucky day. The INT, the fumble, the missed FG, the Bradham whiff, the penalty on the Giant's FG. Football gods were not on our side today. Sure a lot is on us and the playcalling, but some real funky stuff happened today. We're a better team than this.

I was thinking the same thing. How can a receiver hold on to the ball with two DBs grabbing at the ball. Whistle needs to be blown. I don't care what the rules say, that shouldn't be a fumble.

I think he's just thinking too much out there. He's not playing by instinct.

Right on; This is a test. They made good 2nd half adjustments against the Pats, let's see what we can do here.

Awful half. But we can come back. We need turnovers and Tyrod to get into a groove. And get the ball to Harvin.

"Clinging to". You've now started off two different replies with something that makes me roll my eyes. It's true Rex has changed the culture. Positive charisma is the most powerful drug on the planet. However, just because Rex has changed it quicker (with an improved roster) does not automatically discount Marrone from changing it too. "X being successful does not make Y a failure." I'd argue that specific positions on offense underperformed, but the team overperformed in general. Relying on the defense, bungling in-game decisions, and other little things have nothing to do with my definition of changing the culture. "By any means necessary" is a part of my definition. "Only in specific ways" seems to be part of yours. I'm talking in general, but you keep "clinging" to specifics. You keep attempting to take a win away from Marrone and paint him as 8-8 in order to help your stance. The truth is he's 9-7. Our opinions on the Patriots and Chiefs games don't really matter. Another truth is that he had the first winning season in nearly 10 years. Of course we wouldn't have Roman and maybe Tyrod or Harvin. And the offense may not be as exciting. But my point is that I think Marrone would have found a way to improve our offense with some of those better players (like KW, McCoy, Miller). I think we would still be 2-1 right now with Marrone and Schwartz, but perhaps not as fun to watch. He had a winning season despite that stress. With an improved roster and the same stress, I don't see why we would have been a worse team. If you're arguing that the stress would have snowballed and he would have had a breakdown that ruined the season, well that's a unique viewpoint I haven't heard yet. It's interesting and something I can consider.

Or just fringe ideas in general. You go back in history and some fringe ideas are nonsense, but many more move into the center like "the earth is round" and "yards per attempt is important" as you mentioned.

It's a stretch, but I agree with his overall premise.

Come on guys, it wasn't a "wow" post. He has a point. We're biased towards certain players. Manziel has only played a couple games and everyone thinks he's a total bust (or just wants him to be because they don't like him personally). A lot of people have used the "only 14 games" card with EJ. He's got a valid point there. I guess saying Manziel will be good in 3-4 years is questionable. I think Sammy is an incredible talent, and normally you should be patient. But the way Evans and OBJ (and Benjamin before the injury) have produced, you just expect a bit more. A poster was snarky when someone mentioned Watkins might be prone to injuries because he works out too much (pretty harmless speculation IMO) and that's what jaybee was referring to. And I agree 100%, the general consensus on this board, and nearly every mainstream board, is based on popularity. I read his post over a 2nd time and I don't see what he said that deserves a response like "wow" which is better used on a post advocating Eugenics or domestic violence or something.

Even that's not iron-clad. It was based on Twitter reports. John Wawrow released a report stating Cassel might start two days before Tyrod was named starter. You can't trust most reports because they all have agendas from front office execs, GMs, coaches, agents, players, etc.

He's 30 and is a converted CB. Not a lot of years left. And he's only played what, 2 NFL games at FS. Nothing wrong with getting a good young player who's natural position is FS.

Wouldn't mind a FS in the first round to replace Graham who's getting old and out of position. Other than that, BPA all the way.

You don't like the guy personally. If you can't separate your emotions from Marrone then there's no point in debating with you.

4 previous seasons before Marrone: 6-10 6-10 4-12 6-10 Let's go further back: 7-9 7-9 7-9 5-11 He turned it around. If you don't give credit for the Pats win, then you should consider we lost to the Chiefs because of a fumble at the end zone.

Our future looks tremendous. Now that most likely QB is not a major need, what are our needs for draft and FA next year? Safety? Tackle? Nickel CB? We're looking really good.

I always felt it was the lamest argument tactic to accuse somebody defending a certain person to be that person or a member of his family. You're trying to paint a picture that my stance is so pathetic that only a family member can defend it. Why don't you argue the point on it's merits instead of using high school debate tactics. I always raise an eyebrow when somebody starts a reply with a backhanded ad-hominem. Why are you afraid to just counter my point, why feel the need to insult? I never said Marrone was an offensive guru. I said he was brought here to turn the culture around and he did. Whether you like HOW he did it, doesn't really matter to me as much as the end result. A common topic is how he was supposed to be a great OL coach and our Oline sucked. Well, if we ignore personnel, the best I can say is that Marrone was a 1st time head coach who had a lot on his plate. He may not have had the time to coach the Oline himself. He made plenty of mistakes, like the QB injury debacle his 1st year, but he admitted his mistake and they fixed it by bringing in Orton the 2nd year. Hell, that "mistake" was as much on Whaley as Marrone. There's no guarantee he couldn't have fixed whatever was wrong during this offseason if he stayed. I mean, the Jags Oline looked solid vs the Dolphins. Sure some of the fault in the losses falls on Marrone, but I think it's stretching it to somehow find a way to take the blame from Bryce Brown and pin it on Marrone. Every close victory in NFL history was dependent on a player NOT making one more critical mistake at some point in the game.

In general, people just couldn't stop going at him all off-season. Even now he's some sort of punchline. He had his warts, but they brought him in for his reputation for turning losing cultures into winning cultures and he did his job. He did it in a way fans didn't like, but he did it. 9-7 folks, should've been 10-6 if not for us looking past Oakland. 11-5 if Bryce Brown didn't fumble at the goalline. Would've been our best record since Wade Phillips. In my opinion and my definition, he was a tremendous organizer and team leader. He did his job and helped lay the foundation for the Bills today. He showed up and recognized that the problem was the team's attitude, the local media's attitude, and the fan's attitude. He got annoyed many times and dealt with it the only way he knew how, by picking fights. He didn't have Rex's charisma, but he did what he could. Eventually it was too much for him. I don't care about his personality and I don't care that our offense was futile and that he hired some no name as OC. All I cared about were wins and turning around the culture and that's what he did. We didn't want him here, he didn't want to be here, so he left. Now we bring in a new QB, an elite RB, and elite WR, and top notch TE, a pro-bowl guard and one year older lineman, and people think Marrone would've done worse? Cut the BS.

Don't forget Jackson and Spiller were injured for half the year. It was remarkable that we finished 9-7. Fans didn't like Marrone so they gave all the credit to Schwarz and the defense. True they did great, but for some reason it became "fact" around here that they did well despite Marrone. It's pretty obvious things like that bothered him. Imagine working your ass off, dealing with cancer, and turning around a vicious losing culture and then being hated by the fanbase that only gives some other guy credit. I would leave too. It's downright savvy he took $5M doing something he wanted to do. Fans keep kicking him because they feel abandoned. He left on his terms and that bothers many fans. There's some sort of deep insecurity he touched and that's why everybody is so butt-hurt even though he's the one with $5M in the bank coaching in FL. By the way, the Jaguars look improved. How about that.

What's weak about leaking negative attacks on Whaley to the press? It happened, I'm not making it up. And who has enough sway in the marketing department for Graham to use them as a source? Are there that many? Would Graham listen to a low-level employee? Pegula may be in charge but there was no house-cleaning. Most of the whiny little girls from the Ralph era are still there. The team and coaching staff is better, but there is still plenty of left-over. Perhaps, but there were negative leaks to the press. Where there's smoke there's fire. It's not like there was friction last year before the season started between the old guard and the new guard.

Definitely bored, but no agenda.

Yes he is, but how do you know there's no power left to be had? Are you employed in the Bills organization? Who would get an earful from a sponsor? Would it not be somebody involved with marketing? Like Russ Brandon, or a subordinate of Brandon? Why is it time to dispense with that storyline after you provide some weak counter-arguments.

Again, I hope so. I don't want him gone either. But I imagine his reputation is looking really good right now. Need to lock him up soon and not turn him off with the office politics. The very same thing that cost us Polian.

I don't think he wants the GM job, but he may want to be THE guy at One Bills Drive. Right now Whaley is his equal. A new GM may not hold the same sway. Somebody leaked the "rogue" thing to Whaley. And they had some sort of motive. I hope so, let's see on Sunday.

Puts the "rogue" comments in a different light. There's haters in the Bills front office who want him gone after this year. Now who's ambitious and would want to win a power struggle like that? *cough* Russ Brandon *cough*